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Joint Statement From Redskins/Cowboys

Does anyone know (for sure) if the current cap situation is any better or worse now than it would have been had the Haynesworth maneuver not been done?

If Albert had been just cut back when, how much dead money would the team be carrying now?
 
well.....the fans better dream up some interesting chants for Goddell and Mara during nationally televised games.
 
well.....the fans better dream up some interesting chants for Goddell and Mara during nationally televised games.
Found video of Goodell leading his own chant.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vezr3dW4J5s&skipcontrinter=1[/media]

As for Mara, [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wro5EXA-v4[/media]
 
been trying to disect what actualy Burbank has ruled on here so not being a lawyer bare with me but as far as I can fathom out he has said.

You cannot complain, the punishment stands, not because you broke any rules or in fact went against the spirit of the rules but because the players Union has agreed to the sanctions.

errr excuse me Mr but is that not total buncum (as an old soccer pundit over here used to say" According to this interpritation as long as the union agree with Goodell there is no right to appeal against anything.

I can fully understand why both teams would not want to pursue this further just now (encase of further sanctions) but the whole thing stinks worse than one of my daughters diapers after spag bol.
 
I think this unfortunately marks the end of the road for #47 in DC.

Cooley counts over $6 million against our cap this season. Barring a dramatic restructuring, I don't see how anyone can justify that given our current situation.

Have to think Cooley would be willing to restructure - he's pretty much all-in on DC. However, I'm not sure that would help; Davis, Paulsen & now Paul are all younger and possibly better (certainly more healthy) than Chris. I think his job depends on lighting up camp this year. I hope he at least gets that shot; he's certainly earned it.
 
If Vinny did this exact same thing, he would be getting barbecued right now. It's no different than taking a risk on a free agent, paying him $36 mil guaranteed over two seasons, and getting another Haynesworth. Although we did actually get something from Fatso.

I'm certain there are details about this, which we will never know, that might justify it, if we did know. But the end result, orchestrated by Shanallen, has the same dysfunctional look of a Snyderatto move.

If Landover and Dallas both host Super Bowls within the next 10yrs, we'll know it was just another internal payoff. By the National Football La Cosa Nostra.

You are probably right - if Vinny did this same thing, he would get torched, and deservedly so. But, that's because in addition to this one thing, he did a million other similar & equally dumb things. Oh, and wasted every single draft pick on stupid positions instead of reinforcing the lines.

So, personally I'm willing to give Allen a pass on this one until it becomes a pattern of behavior. Until then, its crystal clear how different these two regimes are, at least in my eyes.

EDIT: maybe I'm being too light on Allen, but the fact that the Redskins have made more selections than ANY other team in the NFL in the past two years gives him a lot of political capital, in my opinion.
 
This didn't work out for the Redskins, and anytime something doesn't work out, it's hard to argue the GM and Owner don't 'own' it.

But let's not confuse that with blaming them because Goodell and Company decided to enforce rules that weren't in place, disapprove contracts they'd already approved, etc...Despite whatever *warnings* the NFL supposedly gave (which apparently were so important and crucial they didn't even bother putting them in writing), the move is a bull**** move. I don't see Allen or Snyder ultimately being to blame.
 
The NFL Wins, Because The NFL Always Wins

There's no way that any sensible, thinking person who's not an NFL owner can honestly feel that the league acted justly in penalizing the Cowboys and the Redskins for spending their money and structuring their contracts the way they did during the uncapped 2010 season. But it doesn't matter, because the NFL plays by its own rules and no one else's, and that's the lesson for today.

That's ESPN.com's Dan Graziano, summing up in two sentences what I spent a few thousand words bunching my panties over. Now the Redskins' and Cowboys' totally legitimate grievance with the NFL's unilateral salary cap penalties have been dismissed without even getting past the NFL's arbitration process. The arbitrator ruled that it wasn't, in fact, unilateral because both a supermajority of other owners and the NFLPA signed off on it, even though the league strong-armed and blackmailed everyone into going along. DC and Dallas have said they won't press their cases any further, and if Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones accept that they can't win a small battle against the tramping NFL machine, what chance do the rest of us stand?
 
Let's face it, Snyder and Jones rolled the dice. They tried to circumvent the hit by ignoring the warnings that I have no doubt they got. Whether the warnings amount to collusion is irrelevant. They figured they could thumb their noses at the rest of the teams and lost. Like it or not, the NFL is never going to be a league where all of the teams can get by without revenue sharing. As a result, teams like the Skins and Cowboys are going to have to play ball, suck as it does when you have an owner who would spare no expense. I can't imagine the NFL without some of the small market teams. I'm not willing to see a change that causes a loss of those teams. I'd lose interest all together. Time to let this go and move forward. The season can't get here fast enough.
 
One thing to consider about the Haynesworth move: I believe* that if they had just cut Haynesworth, they would have to deal with dead cap for the next 2-3 seasons. By trading him, they accelerated the cap hit all to the 2010 "uncapped" year. So, even though they lost this battle with the arbitrator, they still "won" by getting Fat Albert completely off their books in one move.

I can even see this all being part of the discussion. "We might get stuck with a cap penalty, but we'll be rid of Useless McFatass all in one fell swoop! Win-win scenario."


*Dead cap is generated from cutting players, correct?

As this blog from Tandler shows, the Skins used to be one of the leaders in dead cap space every season, this year they've got under $3M.
 
At this point, I think winning is the best revenge.
 

Naturally, the media doesn't want this thing to die because it gives them something "hot" to report on but I also think THEY see it as much of a travesty of justice as we do.

The NFL is badly in need of an overhaul. I no longer just want that cap money back. I want the underhandedness and collusion exposed for the world to see. And I want Goodell exiled to Elba.
 
Yesterday on 980 someone (I think it was Kevin Sheehan) made a good point.

We had to feel some cap pain at some point for all the bad moves we'd made over the past few years. We thought we could get around it and it turns out we couldn't. But either way that cap pain, those past mistakes, are going to eventually go away and will be part of our past. We can now begin the process of moving forward and making sensible personnel decisions from here on out. (EDIT: Basically what Lanky said) So in that respect this doesn't matter all that much. It's time to move on and think about, you know, football stuff.

That said, I will personally never forgive Goodell for this. I will never forgive Mara for this. Up until a few months ago I actually kinda liked the Giants. The Eagles were dirty losers with lousy fans and the Cowboys were pretty boys full of bandwagoners but the Giants ... I thought of them as a respected foe. A member of the Old Guard with whom we've had many epic battles. No longer. They are sneaky, petty, underhanded little creeps. I have no respect for backstabbers like that and they have now vaulted to the top of my personal **** list. I may even hate them more than the Cowboys now, and that's something I never thought would ever happen. I hope they lose every game they play, and some they don't.

I am slow to anger and slow to forgive and I will never ever forgive those involved for this lowbrow garbage. May they all rot in football hell.

And that's all I have to say about that.
 
Did a little research - the dead cap hits would have been $18M in 2011, and $18M in 2012 (or similar, based on Haynesworthless's $36M cap hit), so essentially the penalty was the same.

Steven A. Smith says "HOWEVAH!"

We are much better equipped to deal with an $18M salary cap hit this season and next season than we were in 2011, due to Snyderatto's terrible cap management. So, I think they made this move thinking worst case scenario is we push this cap penalty back a couple years to a year that we're better equipped to handle it.

Brilliant, actually. IMHO
 
Yesterday on 980 someone (I think it was Kevin Sheehan) made a good point.

We had to feel some cap pain at some point for all the bad moves we'd made over the past few years. We thought we could get around it and it turns out we couldn't. But either way that cap pain, those past mistakes, are going to eventually go away and will be part of our past. We can now begin the process of moving forward and making sensible personnel decisions from here on out. (EDIT: Basically what Lanky said) So in that respect this doesn't matter all that much. It's time to move on and think about, you know, football stuff.

That said, I will personally never forgive Goodell for this. I will never forgive Mara for this. Up until a few months ago I actually kinda liked the Giants. The Eagles were dirty losers with lousy fans and the Cowboys were pretty boys full of bandwagoners but the Giants ... I thought of them as a respected foe. A member of the Old Guard with whom we've had many epic battles. No longer. They are sneaky, petty, underhanded little creeps. I have no respect for backstabbers like that and they have now vaulted to the top of my personal **** list. I may even hate them more than the Cowboys now, and that's something I never thought would ever happen. I hope they lose every game they play, and some they don't.

I am slow to anger and slow to forgive and I will never ever forgive those involved for this lowbrow garbage. May they all rot in football hell.

And that's all I have to say about that.


I dont' know Henry. We made our own bed and tried to take advantage of the situation. Snyder obviously went against a "gentlemens' agreement on this. I think that's worse than him getting called on it, even though that very type of dealing is very much wrong. We certainly convinced ourselves over the years that the one area Snyder seemed to shine was cap manipulation. It was just time to pay the piper.
 
"Brilliant".....I agree LL and that was the formula the a-holes probably used to figure the number for the penalties anyway.

Getting rid of AH, shelving the dead monies for a season or two appears to be worst case, which is not totally bad.

Had best case occured, removing AH and having more cap than most other teams would have been almost too good, almost..... to the point of being "unfair" :devilish:
 
Just read Burbank's decision. As BB suggested/I inferred, http://www.bgobsession.com/showpost.php?p=125211&postcount=78, Burbank essentially holds that the March 27 vote at the league meeting retroactively ratified the salary cap penalty letter b/w the league and NFLPA and clarified/turned it into an amendment to the CBA itself.

It's very hard to argue that the cap penalty violates the CBA when specific authorization for that penalty (enacted after the other CBA provisions we alleged precluded the penalty) is found in the CBA itself, as amended. That was my biggest concern--that the cap penalty would somehow be considered an amendment to the CBA; the NFL figured out how to do that.

I would have thought, notwithstanding the cap penalty as CBA amendment, that the System Arbitrator would properly consider in this proceeding a) whether the NFL Constitution and Bylaws would preclude i) this CBA amendment (procedurally) or ii) this penalty (substantively), and in any event b) some means of challenging an action taken as an amendment to the CBA that is inconsistent with other provisions of the CBA--and, moreover, with the CBA that governed when the complained-of actions occurred (i.e., the 2006 CBA). Burbank apparently determined that he has no jurisdiction to enforce claims under (or even taking account of) the 2006 CBA in this proceeding.

I'll have to think this through further. One thing to note, in terms of potential further avenues, is that Burbank points to some possibilities for a lawsuit that do not require the nuclear (antitrust) option--suing for breach of contract/breach of a state duty of fiduciary representation would not necessarily implicate the full set of antitrust issues.

Another point, which neither Burbank nor others have noted, afaik, concerns collusion as defined in the CBA (i.e., not antitrust). I'm going off memory here, given limited time, but he rejected any such claims by the Skins because they have no standing; he's correct, I think, that only players or the NFLPA, I believe, have standing to raise such claims. That's why I had raised the possibility (here, and/or on ES) that the Skins suggest that Fletcher (at the time, now maybe Griffin, or Cooley or some other player affected by the cap hit) file a claim alleging collusion under Article 17 of the CBA. It's not clear how to reconcile a) a CBA amendment expressly authorizing the cap penalty with b) a CBA provision permitting a challenge to collusive conduct--it may be that even a CBA amendment could be challenged as collusive, b/c it presents a procedural flaw in the amendment process. That seems a potentially viable, non-nuclear route--one that may allow us to circumvent the "cap penalty as CBA amendment" roadblock.

Oh, and another pipe dream, while I'm at it. Maybe we can propose to the Executive Committee/NFLPA an amended cap penalty, one that would place the cap penalty on us that would be the same as where we would be if we hadn't accelerated the cap hits into 2010. I believe that would be $28 million over the next four years (b/c $6 million would have been eaten up legitimately in 2010). Maybe the NFL would accept that, a) b/c it's fair, in that ensuring competitive balance does not warrant an exorbitant punishment, and b) in order to settle a (limited) lawsuit that may follow, and c) teams may be amenable to it, b/c the implication of Burbank's decision is that whatever the NFLPA and 21 (or so) teams vote to do cannot be challenged under the CBA, so long as that decision is couched as a CBA amendment.
 
Can't stop laughing and grinning. Twitter just exploded into a mushroom cloud:

Bob Glauber‏@BobGlauber

NFLPA alleges comments by Giants owner John Mara that Redskins/Cowboys violated spirit of salary cap in uncapped '10 season shows collusion.


Andrew Brandt‏@adbrandt

Key figure in case v. NFL is John Mara, quoted about Redskins/Cowboys: “ They attempted to take advantage of a one-year loophole"


Eye on Football‏@EyeOnNFL

According to NFLPA, NFL “imposed a secret $123 million per-Club salary cap for that uncapped 2010 season.” If true, that's unreal.


Andrew Brandt‏@adbrandt

Here we go again: the NFLPA has filed a collusion claim against the NFL regarding the 2010 uncapped year and a "secret agreement".
 

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