Lanky Livingston
Guest
BB, I love you, but the second you posted this on an internet forum it was compromised. If you weren't supposed to share this from your Redskins' buddy, then you never should have posted it. Just sayin'...
 }})
-
Welcome to BGO! We know you will have questions as you become familiar with the software. Please take a moment to read our New BGO User Guide which will give you a great start. If you have questions, post them in the Feedback and Tech Support Forum, or feel free to message any available Staff Member.
BB, I love you, but the second you posted this on an internet forum it was compromised. If you weren't supposed to share this from your Redskins' buddy, then you never should have posted it. Just sayin'...
TomE
The Pro Bowler
Yeah, as soon as anyone types anything and hits send, post or otherwise on the internet it's belongs to everyone. There are no secrets here.
But.... it's cool that something is coming back to the Skins as restitution.
The "Haynesworth maneuver" is looking a little better now.
But.... it's cool that something is coming back to the Skins as restitution.
The "Haynesworth maneuver" is looking a little better now.
tshile
Guest
the rumored money back is nice.
i definitely want compensatory picks too.
i doubt we'll get them. settlement is a sure thing whereas going before the arbitrator is not - regardless of the strength of your case.
goodel is awful. i've been saying it since his bull**** punishment of vick after he got out of jail and he's been confirming it ever since with every move he makes. dude needs to go, immediately.
i definitely want compensatory picks too.
i doubt we'll get them. settlement is a sure thing whereas going before the arbitrator is not - regardless of the strength of your case.
goodel is awful. i've been saying it since his bull**** punishment of vick after he got out of jail and he's been confirming it ever since with every move he makes. dude needs to go, immediately.
The discussion we had back in March was presented as a possibility and not as fact, but the language I used did infer that it was very likely - that one is on me. The source is more than just a friend and I took it too far, but we're cool with each other nonetheless.
True, the leak could've come from the league, but it is out there. Just glad to see that the media is keeping quiet about it.
Well, the hearing is in two days - unless a setttlement occurs prior to that meeting. We'll see what happens.
True, the leak could've come from the league, but it is out there. Just glad to see that the media is keeping quiet about it.
Well, the hearing is in two days - unless a setttlement occurs prior to that meeting. We'll see what happens.
CounterTrey
The Team Captain
a couple thoughts BB...
1. the listener infers, the speaker implies....just a grammar dork hangup of mine...nothing to see here.
2. you're really sweating getting credit for this leak? I cry foul on your behalf then. If this "leak" were to actually derail anything then you were a pawn my friend and they used you to accomplish what they wanted to begin with...to derail this. For that reason alone I don't buy it and neither should you. Yea you want to keep a lid on inside dish but I'd be amazed if you got any heat at all for this especially when you quoted no one specifically and your post amounted to educated speculation at best. Show aint over til the fat lady sings and such...
1. the listener infers, the speaker implies....just a grammar dork hangup of mine...nothing to see here.
2. you're really sweating getting credit for this leak? I cry foul on your behalf then. If this "leak" were to actually derail anything then you were a pawn my friend and they used you to accomplish what they wanted to begin with...to derail this. For that reason alone I don't buy it and neither should you. Yea you want to keep a lid on inside dish but I'd be amazed if you got any heat at all for this especially when you quoted no one specifically and your post amounted to educated speculation at best. Show aint over til the fat lady sings and such...
Bulldog
The Legend
so many people around the NFL are upset over the Vilma 1 year ban. But the truth of the matter is that the NFL action against the Redskins and Cowboys is THE action that had no grounding in law or fact.
There was no floor or ceiling set during the uncapped season and there were NO actions taken against owners like the Bucs and Bengals that chose to spend UNDER the previous levels.
The fact the chairman of the NFL Management Council is Mara of the Giants, who has a conflict of interest in evaluating the actions of division rivals Washington and Dallas, is enough to make this stink to high heaven.
As far as the NFLPA goes, they screwed the pooch from the beginning. They got a 10 year deal with no outs for franchise players and adjudication by the Commissioner of rules infractions.
Their attempts to parse the bounty gate scandal language and direct the suspension actions to a subsidiary committee are feeble.
Goodell can make the plain case that while the actions taken by the players to implement the bounties were accomplished ON the field, the consipracy to develop a bounty system was developed off the field in organizational meetings, etc.
Again, the NFLPA is feeble.
There was no floor or ceiling set during the uncapped season and there were NO actions taken against owners like the Bucs and Bengals that chose to spend UNDER the previous levels.
The fact the chairman of the NFL Management Council is Mara of the Giants, who has a conflict of interest in evaluating the actions of division rivals Washington and Dallas, is enough to make this stink to high heaven.
As far as the NFLPA goes, they screwed the pooch from the beginning. They got a 10 year deal with no outs for franchise players and adjudication by the Commissioner of rules infractions.
Their attempts to parse the bounty gate scandal language and direct the suspension actions to a subsidiary committee are feeble.
Goodell can make the plain case that while the actions taken by the players to implement the bounties were accomplished ON the field, the consipracy to develop a bounty system was developed off the field in organizational meetings, etc.
Again, the NFLPA is feeble.
tshile
Guest
Agreed (although I have no legal background to make that have any meaning )
As much as I hate Goodel, he really handled the lockout well for the owners.
Not only did they not miss a single regular season game but...
- there is no out for the players for 10 years. the NFL has already started making HUGE long term deals with their partners since they can promise 10 years worth of football. It's working so well that MLB is negotiating their CBA 2 years early to model that approach and get big bucks as well.
- for the players to object to extending the season to 18 games next year they'd have to fork over a chunk of the pie they fought to get more of. meaning there will be an 18 game season next year and the NFLPA can do nothing about it (thats my understanding at least)
- the commish still reigns supreme over player violations and infractions, with no checks and balances that involve the NFLPA or any player advocacy groups. in short, dictator goodel is still the dictator.
The players really got nothing out of the deal. The only thing they 'got' was a bigger chunk of the pie. They lost power in exchange for some (in the grand scheme of things) petty cash. Most people would consider that a huge loss.
The big concern I have is how this will impact negotiations in 10 years, when the players are sitting there going 'remember how bad we got screwed last time?'. It probably wont because the players are extremely short sighted, unable to prepare for a lockout like the owners, and don't care about power. I don't really blame them, most of their careers wont last 10 years so why should they care about anything other than short term cash?
sorry. i'll end my somewhat off topic rant/book....
)As much as I hate Goodel, he really handled the lockout well for the owners.
Not only did they not miss a single regular season game but...
- there is no out for the players for 10 years. the NFL has already started making HUGE long term deals with their partners since they can promise 10 years worth of football. It's working so well that MLB is negotiating their CBA 2 years early to model that approach and get big bucks as well.
- for the players to object to extending the season to 18 games next year they'd have to fork over a chunk of the pie they fought to get more of. meaning there will be an 18 game season next year and the NFLPA can do nothing about it (thats my understanding at least)
- the commish still reigns supreme over player violations and infractions, with no checks and balances that involve the NFLPA or any player advocacy groups. in short, dictator goodel is still the dictator.
The players really got nothing out of the deal. The only thing they 'got' was a bigger chunk of the pie. They lost power in exchange for some (in the grand scheme of things) petty cash. Most people would consider that a huge loss.
The big concern I have is how this will impact negotiations in 10 years, when the players are sitting there going 'remember how bad we got screwed last time?'. It probably wont because the players are extremely short sighted, unable to prepare for a lockout like the owners, and don't care about power. I don't really blame them, most of their careers wont last 10 years so why should they care about anything other than short term cash?
sorry. i'll end my somewhat off topic rant/book....
The only way I can this thing jumping the tracks and ending up in court (which neither side can be monumentally ignorant enough to allow) is if the arbitrator cuts the teams off at the knees over process and doesn't even let them present their case.
It's like watching two freight trains playing chicken.
Jimbo
The Franchise Player
If Burbank takes the easy way out and dismisses the case, he'll be crucified as an NFL lackey and would likely lose ALL credibility.
I have a feeling he will rule that the grievance CAN go forward and will hope a settlement will be reached while waiting for THAT hearing. I'd be shocked at any 11th hour agreement BEFORE Thursday's hearing.
I have a feeling he will rule that the grievance CAN go forward and will hope a settlement will be reached while waiting for THAT hearing. I'd be shocked at any 11th hour agreement BEFORE Thursday's hearing.
Sounds about right, Jimbo.
I'm pretty sure all sides already know how this is going to play out, and have already agreed in principal on how the eventual settlement will be structured. Today's hearing simply buys the NFL and the teams more time to work out the details.
The only surprise to me would be if the arbitrator dismisses the grievance outright. One of two things would happen--either it would mean the settlement has already been reached and will be announced at some point soon, or that the thing really has broken down, and the league really is stupid enough to gamble that Snyder and Jones won't turn their lawyers loose.
I'm pretty sure all sides already know how this is going to play out, and have already agreed in principal on how the eventual settlement will be structured. Today's hearing simply buys the NFL and the teams more time to work out the details.
The only surprise to me would be if the arbitrator dismisses the grievance outright. One of two things would happen--either it would mean the settlement has already been reached and will be announced at some point soon, or that the thing really has broken down, and the league really is stupid enough to gamble that Snyder and Jones won't turn their lawyers loose.
CounterTrey
The Team Captain
That's what really amazes me the most about all of this. There are more than a few people both in the league and without that evidently think Snyder and/or Jones will keep those dogs on the leash if this doesn't pan out. They are making a monumentally huge mistake if they really believe that.
tshile
Guest
I keep seeing this and I can't figure out why anyone takes this side of things... You really think Snyder and Jones are going to send their lawyers after the NFL over this and drag it through the court system?
If they do that they're going to be compromising the thing they love - their teams. Their teams depend on the league, and if the league becomes under attack from the politicians in terms of anti-trust issues, that could ruin it for them any everyone else.
I think this idea that the cowboys and redskins would try to destroy the league over 36 million dollars is absurd. The cap is what, 120+ million a year? You're talking about 1/4 of a year's worth of cap money? Thats hardly worth possibly destroying the league. Snyder and Jones would have to be complete idiots to go that route.
The NFL has as much leverage as the skins and cowboys do. The NFL's leverage is that the skins and cowboys are bluffing and have no desire to take this to court.
CounterTrey
The Team Captain
Yep I absolutely do think they'll go "nuclear" over this if given no other recourse. It sets an amazingly dangerous precedent otherwise. Plus Snyder and Jones just aren't the type that let themselves get totally f***ed over without biting back. Hell Snyder will sue his own fans, you think he WON'T sue when these guys are literally illegally colluding and STEALING 36 million from him? Like I said, I find that amazing.
CounterTrey
The Team Captain
This is from Jones this morning. Doesn't sound like a man ready to take it lying down if the NFL succeeds in having this thrown out under the CBA.
I don't think anybody's suggesting "the cowboys and redskins would try to destroy the league over 36 million dollars" brother. Synder and Jones are smart enough not to destroy the golden goose. I think they're also smart enough to know how to use their leverage thought.
The Redskins and Cowboys appear to have a pretty strong case here, be it legal, ethical or even just perceptual. This is one that could easily get publicly ugly if their legal eagles start issuing statements and preparing for war. Even just the threat feeds the media beast and puts the NFL's collusionary practices on display.
I do NOT think the league can afford to risk that.
The Redskins and Cowboys appear to have a pretty strong case here, be it legal, ethical or even just perceptual. This is one that could easily get publicly ugly if their legal eagles start issuing statements and preparing for war. Even just the threat feeds the media beast and puts the NFL's collusionary practices on display.
I do NOT think the league can afford to risk that.
Ax
Guest
Especially if they think blowing up the current system will destroy the current welfare, er um, revenue sharing program, and allow them to keep more of the money they earn.
This is bigger than just the $36 million.
This is bigger than just the $36 million.
tshile
Guest
first - 36 million is peanuts in this case. it's 1/4 of what they are allowed to spend a year. they both plan on owning the teams for the next few decades.
second - they didn't 'steal' money from anyone. they just told the redskins and cowboys they couldn't spend it. thats not in any way close to 'stealing'. they weren't fined 36 million dollars, their cap space (ie: how much they're allowed to spend) was reduced by 36 million dollars. there is a huge fundamental difference between that and what you're saying.
in fact, if anything snyder and jones are 36 million richer because they weren't allowed to spend it. please stop with the 'stealing' stuff.
posturing. nothing more, nothing less.
I agree the redskins/cowboys have a strong case. I think the NFL has no case.
What i'm pointing out is that destroying the league over this would be fundamentally dumb for all parties involved. And you can claim they don't want to destroy the league, thats fine. Once this goes to court they lose all control over the outcome. You have NO idea what a judge is going to say when you take it to that level, you have no control over where that ride stops.
So yes, taking it to court opens up the possibility of it destroying the league. The NFL and the owners lose control of this once it goes to court.
Which is exactly why it will not go to court, regardless of the arbitrator's ruling and regardless of what jones and snyder are saying in the media. it would be absolutely dumb for either side to pursue this to US courts.
Again, tshile, there's wiggle room between "destroying the league" through a full blown legal process, and simply putting the collusion out front in the public forum. That's the part I'm not sure I'm communicating clearly here.
I agree it will probably never go to court. At least not over "collusion." I DO think Snyder and Jones will be more than willing to continue to play the hand that they might go that route in public however. High-stakes chicken, yes. But given the high ground here is clearly theirs (which I think we agree on?), it's the NFL that's going to have to blink first. Based on what we actually do know at this point, I feel pretty confident in that assessment.
Guys like Florio are poised and ready to make a living excoriating the league and opening the door to scrutiny from every conceivable corner and angle---and that's something I don't believe Goodell will ultimately be willing to stomach. He's gambling that most people feel as you do--that Snyder and Jones will blink first because they have more to lose.
I think he's wrong. This one is going to be fought in the public arena, not the courts.
I agree it will probably never go to court. At least not over "collusion." I DO think Snyder and Jones will be more than willing to continue to play the hand that they might go that route in public however. High-stakes chicken, yes. But given the high ground here is clearly theirs (which I think we agree on?), it's the NFL that's going to have to blink first. Based on what we actually do know at this point, I feel pretty confident in that assessment.
Guys like Florio are poised and ready to make a living excoriating the league and opening the door to scrutiny from every conceivable corner and angle---and that's something I don't believe Goodell will ultimately be willing to stomach. He's gambling that most people feel as you do--that Snyder and Jones will blink first because they have more to lose.
I think he's wrong. This one is going to be fought in the public arena, not the courts.
tshile
Guest
Well, i think what we have here is a failure to communicate
I agree that the skins/cowboys have the higher ground.
I also agree that they will continue to play this in the public forum.
But they will not take it to court. It's not just collusion that suggests they wont, it's the general legal process. If they take this to court they're very likely to force the inner workings of the NFL into the public record - we're talking sworn testimony from higher ups in the NFL (commissioner, owners, etc) into the public record. we're not talking about an owner, the commissioner, or a spokesperson making a statement to the media or on a radio show that can be back tracked from. we're talking sworn testimony. i firmly believe the NFL has quite a few shady things going on behind closed doors, and there is no chance anyone involved wants to risk that getting out there.
the skins/cowboys are bluffing about taking it to court the NFL knows it. the skins/cowboys stand to lose as much as anyone. what it comes down to is public opinion and how long the NFL will allow the redskins/cowboys to drag the league through the mud in the media before they finally give up some ground on the issue.
I agree that the skins/cowboys have the higher ground.
I also agree that they will continue to play this in the public forum.
But they will not take it to court. It's not just collusion that suggests they wont, it's the general legal process. If they take this to court they're very likely to force the inner workings of the NFL into the public record - we're talking sworn testimony from higher ups in the NFL (commissioner, owners, etc) into the public record. we're not talking about an owner, the commissioner, or a spokesperson making a statement to the media or on a radio show that can be back tracked from. we're talking sworn testimony. i firmly believe the NFL has quite a few shady things going on behind closed doors, and there is no chance anyone involved wants to risk that getting out there.
the skins/cowboys are bluffing about taking it to court the NFL knows it. the skins/cowboys stand to lose as much as anyone. what it comes down to is public opinion and how long the NFL will allow the redskins/cowboys to drag the league through the mud in the media before they finally give up some ground on the issue.
CounterTrey
The Team Captain
Nah I'll stick to the stealing stuff, it's spot on. It directly affects their ability to compete which directly affects their bottom line...profits. Furthermore that money was divvied up for spreading EXTRA space for other teams some of whom will sit on it and some of whom will use it to buffer their already tight situation, giving them a competitive advantage on us. It also has kept them from getting quality players who will put butts in the seats, sell merchandise and contribute to more wins. Yes they were stolen from.
You might think it's dumb (and in many ways bit probably would be, but I'd submit Jones/Snyder have no choice and it's the league forcing the issue and making the dumb move by LETTING it go to court) but you haven't really refuted the notion that they will pursue it anyway. Like I said, Snyder is willing to sue his own fans (if that's not biting the hand that feeds you there is no such thing) and that alone makes me think this guy has too much ego and is too focused on the bottom line and not getting screwed over to take this without going to the mat. His track record proves it. Same with Jones, he's already sued the NFL and won before and was considered nuts for doing it then. These guys will sue if they feel righteous, I'm not sure sensibility has anything to do with it for them.
You might think it's dumb (and in many ways bit probably would be, but I'd submit Jones/Snyder have no choice and it's the league forcing the issue and making the dumb move by LETTING it go to court) but you haven't really refuted the notion that they will pursue it anyway. Like I said, Snyder is willing to sue his own fans (if that's not biting the hand that feeds you there is no such thing) and that alone makes me think this guy has too much ego and is too focused on the bottom line and not getting screwed over to take this without going to the mat. His track record proves it. Same with Jones, he's already sued the NFL and won before and was considered nuts for doing it then. These guys will sue if they feel righteous, I'm not sure sensibility has anything to do with it for them.
Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)
You haven't joined any rooms.