100% correct.
Edited to add - even with catastrophic failures such as this one, it is done manually.
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F-18 Crashed In Virginia Beach [merge]
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100% correct.
Edited to add - even with catastrophic failures such as this one, it is done manually.
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Ok, if you say so. You're the expert. I will leave this thread entirely to you, your vast assortment of insider sources are way too much for my eyes and the Navy to compete with
Some more updates here.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/u-navy-jet-crashes-virginia-2-pilots-believed-174703258.html
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/u-navy-jet-crashes-virginia-2-pilots-believed-174703258.html
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I will admit to being ignorant on how any of these things work. I'm not trying to sound like an expert. I was going solely on what the Deputy Commander said, and he does know more than me.
http://news.yahoo.com/navy-jet-crashes-va-apartments-pilots-eject-175304656.html
http://news.yahoo.com/navy-jet-crashes-va-apartments-pilots-eject-175304656.html
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I love this little excerpt from that story........
For anyone who knows about the Birdneck section of Virginia Beach, this is hilarious and not shocking
Hehehehehe. Yeah, Birdneck section always gets a bad rap. That area is not too shabby - a bit further to the south though is a different story.
No biggie on the technical knowledge. It's not like I have a NATOPS sitting in front of me or anything of the sort. It's just based on prior experience and knowing what the training involves - this is based on working in that community for the better part of twenty years.
It really has nothing to do with insider info either - I was watching and listening to the live feed this afternoon like the rest of us.
Too, the thought that this was a student pilot is not lost on me as well. But it does sound like he did everything possible to save lives - and did just that - albeit with some luck. Parking a wounded bird in that area without hitting a structure is next to impossible.
Well, on to the investigation phase and that is going to take some time.
Again, it is a miracle that no lives were lost and we can be grateful for that huge blessing.
No biggie on the technical knowledge. It's not like I have a NATOPS sitting in front of me or anything of the sort. It's just based on prior experience and knowing what the training involves - this is based on working in that community for the better part of twenty years.
It really has nothing to do with insider info either - I was watching and listening to the live feed this afternoon like the rest of us.
Too, the thought that this was a student pilot is not lost on me as well. But it does sound like he did everything possible to save lives - and did just that - albeit with some luck. Parking a wounded bird in that area without hitting a structure is next to impossible.
Well, on to the investigation phase and that is going to take some time.
Again, it is a miracle that no lives were lost and we can be grateful for that huge blessing.
fansince62
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Couple thoughts:
- dumping fuel takes time...it doesn't just flush from the system. obviously longer the greater the load.
- dump has to be at a certain altitude in order for the fuel to evaporate before reaching terra firma (that's why there are rules for when/where dumping can take place)
- when the **** hits the fan...as this appears.....low altitude, complete loss of flight control....there comes a point where pulling the handle is the only option
- it is rumored Oceana may be on the BRAC list for the next round. this doesn't help.
- dumping fuel takes time...it doesn't just flush from the system. obviously longer the greater the load.
- dump has to be at a certain altitude in order for the fuel to evaporate before reaching terra firma (that's why there are rules for when/where dumping can take place)
- when the **** hits the fan...as this appears.....low altitude, complete loss of flight control....there comes a point where pulling the handle is the only option
- it is rumored Oceana may be on the BRAC list for the next round. this doesn't help.
A very strong rumor at that - very strong.
Not sure where the jets would go - Cherry Point is one solution. Back to Jacksonville/Cecil is not probable. Any other facilities that could expand and accomodate?
Also not sure where these apartments fall into the APZ, but it is probably close to the highest or just in it.
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Oceana will absolutely be on the BRAC list next go around. The last round, word got out that Oceana was going on the list, so the city went above and beyond on a media blitz and on their knees begging to keep Oceana. When the heads of the committee were in town, they said encroachment was out of control, the building well within crash zones was completely unacceptable, and there was too much the city would have to do for Oceana to stay.
So the city decided to go all out and promise the world to keep Oceana. Problem is, they didn't keep up their end of the bargain. Since that close call with BRAC, the city has built TWO schools inside crash zones. The new Linkhorn Park Elementary and the new Lynnhaven Middle School. That's 3 too many in my book. Also, the encroachment around the fences of Oceana has not only not stopped, it's gotten worse. Oceana Blvd, Old Virginia Beach Blvd and the NAS end of First Colonial Rd have all been widened, and to nobody's surprise, building permits have been issued and buildings and houses have gone up.
There was a large parcel of land that one of my former customers owned. It was a 4.5 acre lot off of Laskin Rd, very close to where the jet crashed. The city paid him over $10 million for the land, promising Oceana that it would be kept clear since it was in the crash zone. So what do they do instead? They give pink slips to half of the school employees and all first year teachers, steal $40 million from the school board, and immediately begin development of a walk around open shopping center for tourists. These are things that will not appear on Google Earth, but I will gladly provide pictures if anyone wants to see how absurd this crap is.
The city of Virginia Beach has a power problem. They have always done whatever they want, with absolutely no recourse for their actions. Several times, just since I have been of age to vote, there have been a dozen referendums put to vote. Nearly all were overwhelmingly voted against by the citizens. By wide margins of 80-90%, and the city said screw it and went against the vote every time. Light Rail is another example. 70% of the residents are strongly against it, but the city has already begun allocating the estimated $800 million it will cost to extend it from Norfolk to the Oceanfront.
Because of this, and because BRAC let them slide last round, they continued on their power trip. They continued to ignore the BRAC requirements. The continue to this day to encroach. They continue to be defiant in the face of everybody. This time, BRAC will make them pay. And they should. I, along with a lot of people I have talked to around here both Navy and civilian, are fully expecting Oceana to go on the list. Obviously nobody know what BRAC will decide, so nobody pretends to, but even accounts by local newscasters will show that anything short of an Oceana closure would be a complete shock to the entire city.
The thing is, this accident will not be the cause, the other factors I listed are very damning. I just believe the crash will be the straw that broke the camel's back.
Here is a very interesting graphic of the crash zones around Oceana overlayed on top of a google map. If you zoom in and switch to satellite view, you can see just how bad it has gotten. The crash zones are supposed to have very little to no residential development as per the agreement with the Navy for civilian safety. But almost every single crash zone, including the highest risk, have development in them.
http://hamptonroads.com/2012/04/map-where-jet-went-down-oceana-crash-zones
And here is the info from 2005 when Oceana went on the BRAC list and we begged their way off through empty promises. Very few promises were met, and most of the ones that were met were reneged on.
http://www.bracresponse.com/
Just one very interesting thing I can point out in those maps.......look at APZ1 to the northeast of the runway and look for Sykes Ave. On the left side of Sykes Ave, there are 16 large homes that were built in 2007 and 2008 (which can be confirmed on Zillow). One of the deals Virginia Beach made with BRAC in 2005 was that not only would there be no new development in APZ1, but that the land and homes would be bought up and condemned. Rather than stick to their agreement, the city granted a permit for new residential development on previously undeveloped wooded land. 2 and 3 years after submitting their proposals to BRAC to keep Oceana. And this was just what jumped out at me immediately. It is like that in all the zones. Nothing has been done by the city, and every promise has been broken. Oceana will be on the next list, as it should, and Virginia Beach will be a ghost town compared to where it sits now. And I am perfectly happy with that. Not because I have anything against the Navy, because I absolutely don't, but because I despise how Virginia Beach treats the military and the residents in favor of their own money making agendas and tourism. They need to learn the harsh lesson that without the Navy, Virginia Beach is nothing.
So the city decided to go all out and promise the world to keep Oceana. Problem is, they didn't keep up their end of the bargain. Since that close call with BRAC, the city has built TWO schools inside crash zones. The new Linkhorn Park Elementary and the new Lynnhaven Middle School. That's 3 too many in my book. Also, the encroachment around the fences of Oceana has not only not stopped, it's gotten worse. Oceana Blvd, Old Virginia Beach Blvd and the NAS end of First Colonial Rd have all been widened, and to nobody's surprise, building permits have been issued and buildings and houses have gone up.
There was a large parcel of land that one of my former customers owned. It was a 4.5 acre lot off of Laskin Rd, very close to where the jet crashed. The city paid him over $10 million for the land, promising Oceana that it would be kept clear since it was in the crash zone. So what do they do instead? They give pink slips to half of the school employees and all first year teachers, steal $40 million from the school board, and immediately begin development of a walk around open shopping center for tourists. These are things that will not appear on Google Earth, but I will gladly provide pictures if anyone wants to see how absurd this crap is.
The city of Virginia Beach has a power problem. They have always done whatever they want, with absolutely no recourse for their actions. Several times, just since I have been of age to vote, there have been a dozen referendums put to vote. Nearly all were overwhelmingly voted against by the citizens. By wide margins of 80-90%, and the city said screw it and went against the vote every time. Light Rail is another example. 70% of the residents are strongly against it, but the city has already begun allocating the estimated $800 million it will cost to extend it from Norfolk to the Oceanfront.
Because of this, and because BRAC let them slide last round, they continued on their power trip. They continued to ignore the BRAC requirements. The continue to this day to encroach. They continue to be defiant in the face of everybody. This time, BRAC will make them pay. And they should. I, along with a lot of people I have talked to around here both Navy and civilian, are fully expecting Oceana to go on the list. Obviously nobody know what BRAC will decide, so nobody pretends to, but even accounts by local newscasters will show that anything short of an Oceana closure would be a complete shock to the entire city.
The thing is, this accident will not be the cause, the other factors I listed are very damning. I just believe the crash will be the straw that broke the camel's back.
Here is a very interesting graphic of the crash zones around Oceana overlayed on top of a google map. If you zoom in and switch to satellite view, you can see just how bad it has gotten. The crash zones are supposed to have very little to no residential development as per the agreement with the Navy for civilian safety. But almost every single crash zone, including the highest risk, have development in them.
http://hamptonroads.com/2012/04/map-where-jet-went-down-oceana-crash-zones
And here is the info from 2005 when Oceana went on the BRAC list and we begged their way off through empty promises. Very few promises were met, and most of the ones that were met were reneged on.
http://www.bracresponse.com/
Just one very interesting thing I can point out in those maps.......look at APZ1 to the northeast of the runway and look for Sykes Ave. On the left side of Sykes Ave, there are 16 large homes that were built in 2007 and 2008 (which can be confirmed on Zillow). One of the deals Virginia Beach made with BRAC in 2005 was that not only would there be no new development in APZ1, but that the land and homes would be bought up and condemned. Rather than stick to their agreement, the city granted a permit for new residential development on previously undeveloped wooded land. 2 and 3 years after submitting their proposals to BRAC to keep Oceana. And this was just what jumped out at me immediately. It is like that in all the zones. Nothing has been done by the city, and every promise has been broken. Oceana will be on the next list, as it should, and Virginia Beach will be a ghost town compared to where it sits now. And I am perfectly happy with that. Not because I have anything against the Navy, because I absolutely don't, but because I despise how Virginia Beach treats the military and the residents in favor of their own money making agendas and tourism. They need to learn the harsh lesson that without the Navy, Virginia Beach is nothing.
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They are in APZ2, on the edge of the center part of the zone.
Lanky Livingston
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Just noticed in this pic...
Nozzle 2 on the exhaust is wide open (zone 5 burner?) and Nozzle 1 is not.
Nozzle 2 on the exhaust is wide open (zone 5 burner?) and Nozzle 1 is not.
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