A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Disagree Disagree:  0
Post of the Year Post of the Year:  0
Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1

    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,516
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Florida Atlantic

    Default The No big-name QB discussion

    So, what if the Redskins repeat what they did in 2011 - trade back to acquire more picks in 2012 & 13 and take a flyer on the QB position (Kellen Moore, Nick Foles, Kirk Cousins, etc.). If the QB doesn't work out, you have ammo to move up in 2013 and take a big name like Barkley.

    This is the strategy that is proposed by Hogshaven (and probably others). It has three distinct benefits as I see it:

    1) Being able to use the first overall pick on a playmaker to help whoever is QB for the team. I like to call this the Green-Dalton strategy; the Bengals were able to select a playmaking WR with their first overall pick, Georgia's AJ Green, and THEN they drafted someone to throw him the ball in Andy Dalton. It worked wonders in Cincy this year. Now the Bengals did not trade down, but this year there are several big-name WRs that will be around picks 1-15. The Skins could trade down into the 10-12 range and maybe even pick up an additional 1st next year.

    2) This strategy not only eliminates the wasting of picks to move up and take an RG3 or Luck, but does the exact opposite. Nobody denies there are a LOT of holes on the Redskins' roster. Doing this gives them the picks they need to fill those holes. The laundry list of needs is long: OL, DB, LB, OL, WR, OL, OL, etc. - more picks is never a bad thing with a list of needs like this.

    3) Trading up and mortgaging on the QB is great - if it works out. If the QB is a bust, however, it will set back the franchise a long way. I think the risk of not getting an RG3 is outweighed by the risk of getting another Akili Smith - the Redskins can ill-afford to be set back any more than they already are.

    Hogshaven brought up an interesting point - the fanbase simply might not have the patience for this type of move. Well I say to that - we've sat through 20 years of mediocrity, what's one more year when the team is moving in the right direction?

    Thoughts?
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  2. #2
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    12-26-09
    Posts
    587
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I think their is a part of Shanahan that believes the system is so good that he doesn't need a franchise QB to win. I could see a scenario where the Skins look for a number one receiver (Blackmon in the first) and a Right Tackle (2nd round) and then drafting Weeden in the 3rd and going for there. Weeden has had a good Senior Bowl week so far and Mike Shanahan might be under the impression that a QB that can run his system and not turn the ball over might be the key. Not saying that I think this is going to happen or that it is what I would do but it is certainly plausible.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  3. #3

    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,516
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Florida Atlantic

    Default

    Weeden, Moore, Cousins, Foles - all viable options after the 1st round. Cousins & Moore especially are also impressing at Senior Bowl practices.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  4. #4

    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Posts
    7,588
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    wellll...not me. I have had enough flyers on QB crappola.

    and there is no guarantee that stocking picks produces long-term viability. again...aside from Kerrigan...not a SINGLE starter who played more than a handful of games emerged from the draft. yes...I know....too early to tell...we saw flashes...etc. but the FACTS are.....NOT A SINGLE SEASON-LONG STARTER other than Kerrigan.

    I get the "safety in numbers" logic. but after 20 years.....I see the need for a top flight QB in a passing league. that's the one risk area I'm willing to support raising the ante on.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  5. #5
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-28-09
    Location
    Yorktown, VA
    Posts
    2,051
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I think there will be an attempt to move up to get RG3, but if Rams ask too much we will wait to see who is there at 6 and take offers.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  6. #6
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    12-26-09
    Posts
    587
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I think their is a good chance that they talk to the Rams but ultimately don't get a deal done. The Rams will want the Skins 1st round pick next year and I don't see Shanahan and Allen giving that up. If the Rams take Kalil at #2 then I could see the Skins calling up the Vikings for the #3 pick. I do think their is a chance they could get the #3 pick without giving up next year's first rounder.

    The real question is, does Shanahan like one of these other QBs? Tannehill, Weeden or Foles could all be options in round two. All three QBs for the North are career backups. Cousins is the only one that could possibly start but I just don't see it. I think Brock Osweiler from Arizona State has some big upside but he would be a pretty major project so not sure about him. So let's say that Tannehill is the 3rd QB on the Shanahan board. Would he rather have RG3 or Tannehill AND the two or three draft picks that he would have to give up for RG3?
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  7. #7

    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Posts
    7,588
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skinsfan76 View Post
    I think their is a good chance that they talk to the Rams but ultimately don't get a deal done. The Rams will want the Skins 1st round pick next year and I don't see Shanahan and Allen giving that up. If the Rams take Kalil at #2 then I could see the Skins calling up the Vikings for the #3 pick. I do think their is a chance they could get the #3 pick without giving up next year's first rounder.

    The real question is, does Shanahan like one of these other QBs? Tannehill, Weeden or Foles could all be options in round two. All three QBs for the North are career backups. Cousins is the only one that could possibly start but I just don't see it. I think Brock Osweiler from Arizona State has some big upside but he would be a pretty major project so not sure about him. So let's say that Tannehill is the 3rd QB on the Shanahan board. Would he rather have RG3 or Tannehill AND the two or three draft picks that he would have to give up for RG3?
    lest we forget..Tannehill et al are receiving more attention because better QBs decided to stay in school.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  8. #8
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    12-26-09
    Posts
    587
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Agreed but I do think Tannehill has some upside.
    Posted via BGO Mobile Device
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  9. #9

    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,516
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Florida Atlantic

    Default

    According to Evan Silva, Blackmon likely will not break 4.65 (in his opinion) in the 40-yard dash at the combine. Could mean he drops to 6, and could bring us plenty more trade-down partners.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  10. #10
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-19-09
    Location
    Bethesda Md
    Posts
    6,757
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)

    Default

    You can't continue to write off entire seasons into the future in the hopes that ONE year all the stars will align for an easy selection of a franchise passer.

    The Redskins need to be creative just as the Giants were in moving up to take Manning in 2004.

    Just as the Cardinals were in signing Kurt Warner after the Giants let him go in 2005.

    Just as the Saints were in signing Drew Brees in 2006.

    You have to take a risk.

    Unless you are lucky enough to get a first overall pick and have an Elway sitting there, it is not going to be easy.

    But there is maneuver room here to get something done.

    The Rams are NOT going to draft Griffin. It appears at first glance the Redskins would have to out-maneuver the Browns to get that pick and take Griffin.

    If the cost there is too high then you perhaps look at players who can be had in trade as well as looking at the Manning, Orton and other free agent scenarios.

    A strategy COULD be to give up the picks for Griffin and then use free agency to rebuild the OL and acquire WRs.

    It could also be to acquire Manning and then take Justin Blackmon in the draft.

    But in the end the Redskins need to get off the pot and do something to ensure that 2012 is not yet another season of losing games while waiting to draft or sign the 'savior'.

    We already wrote off the entire 2011 season going with Rex Grossman and John Beck, a quarterback tandem surpassing only the Spurrier Gators and Shuler/Frerotte in Redskins history.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  11. #11

    Vescere bracis meis

    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Mechanicsville, VA
    Posts
    807
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    VCU

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    You can't continue to write off entire seasons into the future in the hopes that ONE year all the stars will align for an easy selection of a franchise passer.

    .........

    We already wrote off the entire 2011 season going with Rex Grossman and John Beck, a quarterback tandem surpassing only the Spurrier Gators and Shuler/Frerotte in Redskins history.
    Bingo!

    Besides if Shanahan and company turn in another 6 win season you have to think he's going to get fired. Hell, I'd probably help him pack. The only exception I'd accept is if we were starting a rookie QB who was having growing pains, but showing a lot of promise.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin.
    H. L. Mencken

  12. #12

    Join Date
    06-30-09
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    4,086
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hog Fever View Post
    The only exception I'd accept is if we were starting a rookie QB who was having growing pains, but showing a lot of promise.
    A la Cam Newton (although with the Skins defense, even with some QB growing pains, I would expect more wins than the Panthers - they couldn't stop a Pop Warner team last year).
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    Subscribe to our BGO Mailing List

    hailus redskinus
    COYS

  13. #13

    Vescere bracis meis

    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Mechanicsville, VA
    Posts
    807
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    VCU

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    A la Cam Newton (although with the Skins defense, even with some QB growing pains, I would expect more wins than the Panthers - they couldn't stop a Pop Warner team last year).
    Good point.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin.
    H. L. Mencken

  14. #14

    Join Date
    04-11-09
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    17,838
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    94
    Marine Corps Virginia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    You can't continue to write off entire seasons into the future in the hopes that ONE year all the stars will align for an easy selection of a franchise passer.

    The Redskins need to be creative just as the Giants were in moving up to take Manning in 2004.

    Just as the Cardinals were in signing Kurt Warner after the Giants let him go in 2005.

    Just as the Saints were in signing Drew Brees in 2006.

    You have to take a risk.

    Unless you are lucky enough to get a first overall pick and have an Elway sitting there, it is not going to be easy.

    But there is maneuver room here to get something done.

    The Rams are NOT going to draft Griffin. It appears at first glance the Redskins would have to out-maneuver the Browns to get that pick and take Griffin.

    If the cost there is too high then you perhaps look at players who can be had in trade as well as looking at the Manning, Orton and other free agent scenarios.

    A strategy COULD be to give up the picks for Griffin and then use free agency to rebuild the OL and acquire WRs.

    It could also be to acquire Manning and then take Justin Blackmon in the draft.

    But in the end the Redskins need to get off the pot and do something to ensure that 2012 is not yet another season of losing games while waiting to draft or sign the 'savior'.

    We already wrote off the entire 2011 season going with Rex Grossman and John Beck, a quarterback tandem surpassing only the Spurrier Gators and Shuler/Frerotte in Redskins history.
    I could not agree with this post more!

    Unless you pull a rabbit out of your ass (ie..Tannehill, Weeden, *insert 2nd tier barely recognizable QB name here*), it's going to cost you to get dibs on a true franchise QB. I don't believe in the concept of 'extra picks' (as if they cost nothing to acquire). Yeah, we can trade down again. But the cost of trading down again is that we don't get to pick the players available at that pick level. Those extra picks aren't 'free', they come at a cost. Unless we are again one of the worst teams in the league, we'll have to use them to move up again anyway.

    And what I most reject about 'waiting' another year to get our guy, is that it assumes these QBs are all homogenous talents. The Redskins need to do their homework and KNOW who it is, exactly, that they want. They need to know the QBs available inside and out, and they need to be passionate about the guy who they believe has the best chance to 'be that guy' under center for years to come. Then they need to do whatever it takes to get him.

    The BPA approach is fine in most scenarios, but when you're looking for a franchise QB, it's a disastrous method.

    There are no guarantees no matter what strategy we use. But I'd rather pay a steep price to aggressively go after and get a QB we all really believe is a future star, and fail, than to draft another ****ing Patrick Ramsey or Jason Campbell, great guys with moderate talent who will never be difference makers in the NFL.

    It's unlikely we will have a better chance to get a true franchise QB than this year. We need to make someone an offer they can't refuse if that's what it takes.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    Subscribe to our BGO Mailing List

    You ain't bonafide

  15. #15

    Join Date
    04-12-09
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    4,678
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)

    Default

    We really really really need a QB. It's the biggest, deepest hole on this team, and it's at the most important position on the field.

    That said, the only things I am fully against at this point are staying with Beck/Grossman, or trading away picks for veterans. If the front office trades down and fills out the roster like it did last year, I'm ok with that, so long as they draft a QB SOMEWHERE. If the QB (or QBs) we pick up work out I don't care where we get them. And as I've said all along, either this front office knows what it's doing or it doesn't. If it knows what it's doing, trading down and getting a QB in the mid-rounds will be fine. If it doesn't, trading up won't really matter.

    Bottom line: Ask me how well our offseason went when the '12 season is over. Until then, I'm not going to wring my hands about who we draft, because no one really knows how good these kids are until the bullets are actually flying.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  16. #16
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    11-28-11
    Posts
    23
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I agree there is a need for a QB, but the most essential need I see is for a great scout. We need some guy ( like Beathard) who is a great judge of talent to start shopping for all our needs really and maybe some of those football players are on colleges no one else has heard of and no one else is scouting. Then of course there is the not uncomplicated matter of getting our coaching staff to work on the idea of building around the strengths and weaknesses of the guys you have. And here I have my doubts Shanahan is up to the job. But I'm just pipedreaming here I know. I've just seen so much discussion of Manning, Griffin, etc. but having the best highly touted prospect in the world won't matter unless you have a coaching staff that can work with him and develop him, and yeah that can take years sometimes. But I don't see any other way to go.

    B.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Vegetable Garden Tips, Complaints, Concerns & Discussion
    By Nobody in forum The 5 O'Clock Club
    Replies: 97
    Last Post: 09-14-13, 11:30 PM
  2. The Peyton Manning discussion
    By Lanky Livingston in forum Sons of Washington
    Replies: 376
    Last Post: 03-09-12, 07:48 PM
  3. NCAA Football discussion thread
    By Jugband McGillicuddy in forum The 5 O'Clock Club
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 09-25-11, 11:41 PM
  4. Via Yahoo Sports: Redskins make big moves without big splash
    By Burgundy Burner in forum Sons of Washington
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 07-30-11, 11:24 AM

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •