A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
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  1. #1
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    Default ESPN: Report: Gregg Williams Leaving Saints

    This isn’t a huge surprise, but ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports that New Orleans offensive coordinator Gregg Williams is expected to leave the Saints and join Jeff Fisher in St. Louis.

    The Saints’ defense collapsed late in the fourth quarter of Saturday’s playoff loss to San Francisco. If Williams hadn’t already made a decision on his future, the two late touchdowns scored by the 49ers might have sealed his fate. I never got the sense Williams and head coach Sean Payton were especially close and Payton might have been looking to make a change after what happened Saturday.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/po...leaving-saints

    I believe I am in the minority, but I am so happy he didn't stay with Washington in any capacity--let alone as a HC. His career pattern is obvious:

    A. Go to a younger, underperfoming defense.
    B. Yell at them, and motivate them to play well the first season.
    C. Once they realize he has no idea what he is doing, the team then tunes him out, and his yelling, hair frosting and ego begin to annoy.
    D. Wash, rinse and repeat.

    Last year his D was embarrassed by the Seattle Seahawks. This year? He couldn't stop San Fran when it mattered. He arguably blitzed them out of the playoffs.

    What does everyone else think?
    Last edited by McD5; 01-15-12 at 03:01 PM.
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  2. #2

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    James Madison

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    Interesting. Gregg was (and is, in my mind) the poster child against continuity for continuity's sake. His success early on is damn near amazing, seems like everywhere he goes he gets major improvement right away. But it is also inarguable that his teams get worse as the years go on.

    I was in favor of keeping him as HC at the time, I think. But since then. I think Danny actually made the right choice. Not choosing Zorn, mind you. But not choosing Gregg was prescient, imo.
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    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

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    My experience covering the team from 2005-2008 was that Williams was the 'most real' and down-to-Earth of all the team's staff at the time (save maybe Gibbs). He went out of his way to make himself available to media folks. Hell, he sat down and had a meaningful conversation with Murf and I and told a couple of hilarious anecdotes. I thought he was genuinely a nice guy. He deserved the head coaching spot after Gibbs retired. That he didn't get it said a lot more about Dan Snyder's ego than it did about Williams if you ask me.

    As for his skills as a defensive coordinator, I think you could do a lot worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    As for his skills as a defensive coordinator, I think you could do a lot worse.
    Perhaps Boone. But I have to tell you that I just don't trust a Williams coached/run defense in the final minutes of a game unless his team is playing with more than a 2 score lead. We saw leads evaporate in Washington faster than water in the desert too many times for me to be happy.

    Granted, the offense wasn't helping with it's 3 and out motto in the 4th quarter but still. Williams defenses had issues getting critical stops when they absolutely had to have them and yesterday was no exception.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    This isn’t a huge surprise, but ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports that New Orleans offensive coordinator Gregg Williams is expected to leave the Saints and join Jeff Fisher in St. Louis.
    Williams is switching to offense ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    My experience covering the team from 2005-2008 was that Williams was the 'most real' and down-to-Earth of all the team's staff at the time (save maybe Gibbs). He went out of his way to make himself available to media folks. Hell, he sat down and had a meaningful conversation with Murf and I and told a couple of hilarious anecdotes. I thought he was genuinely a nice guy. He deserved the head coaching spot after Gibbs retired. That he didn't get it said a lot more about Dan Snyder's ego than it did about Williams if you ask me.

    As for his skills as a defensive coordinator, I think you could do a lot worse.
    That's not surprising, considering the close relationship he had with Sean Taylor
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    It sounds like you view that all as coaching and scheme-related though. Personnel makes a difference too. I'm not arguing your primary point, just think you have to consider the DC may or may not have a major say in player acquisition and draft strategy, and that factors in as well. I was mostly responding to MCD5's 'he has no idea what he's doing' characterization. I don't think that's a fair assessment if you look at the overall quality of the defenses Williams has been able to put together over the years.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    My experience covering the team from 2005-2008 was that Williams was the 'most real' and down-to-Earth of all the team's staff at the time (save maybe Gibbs). He went out of his way to make himself available to media folks.
    I think it's awesome that you had that kind of access to the team. Every fan's dream. And you certainly know more about him personally than I do. That being said, the phrase "media folks" stands out a little. This would fit in with his reported huge ego, or desire for attention.

    I hope he is like that with everyone--not just the media.

    I don't believe he did anything to deserve the HC job, except for being on the staff at the time. And yes, as far as a DC goes, you could do worse. But I believe you could also do better.

    Playing people out of their natural positions, seemingly always having a player in the doghouse, playing corners 10 yards off receivers on 3rd and 5, and blitzing on the last play of yesterday's game--thereby leaving single coverage on the receivers--leaves some room for improvement.

    I suspect he will go to the Rams, and they will be greatly improved in their first season. But unless he can change, that first season should be his best with the organization. It will be interesting to see.
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    James Madison

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    Boone, to what do you attribute the eventual, seemingly inevitable downturn in his defenses?
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    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

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    Sucker's choice question Goal - because it assumes that's fact and not perception. I'm not going to research whether the stats back up the claim, but I think being a DC on teams that are perenially eliminated from playoff contention by the beginning of December on plays into it. Consistently losing the TOP battle (which results in a tired, beat-up, oft injured defense by year's end) may be a factor too.

    Despite whatever our gripes with Gregg Williams have been over the years, arguing he's not a quality DC seems a little off-base to me. Just my perspective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    I think it's awesome that you had that kind of access to the team. Every fan's dream. And you certainly know more about him personally than I do. That being said, the phrase "media folks" stands out a little. This would fit in with his reported huge ego, or desire for attention.

    I hope he is like that with everyone--not just the media.
    I'm not referencing 'media' time, I'm talking about just walking up, and being a friendly, funny, and seemingly genuine good guy. Besides, I don't think he mistook Murf or I for power media sports reporters. He was just chatting us up.

    Just sharing my experiences. A lot of fans believe Lavar Arrington was a great Redskin who the team did wrong. What I saw was a spoiled 'all about me' idiot.

    Whether or not Williams is a great or even good DC is debatable. But I think he's a good guy when the rubber meets the road.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Boone, to what do you attribute the eventual, seemingly inevitable downturn in his defenses?
    As Boone said, this is a sucker's question...perfect for me then.

    IMHO Williams is in fact a good, quality DC but his problem is that he seems to be a guy that lets hubris/arrogance take over after his initial success turning around bad units. This is tendency is complicated by a penchant for letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. He had some really limited squads during his time in DC and I think he was doing his best to prove that he had the perfect blend of schemes that woud allow a talent-poor defense carry a really bad offense.

    With that said, I like him and I think between him and Fisher the Lambs have immediately made themselves a better team. I also like what it means for us since I suspect the conservatism of Fisher and Williams means they're much more likely to trade out of the #2 slot. I hope.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    I suspect he will go to the Rams, and they will be greatly improved in their first season. But unless he can change, that first season should be his best with the organization. It will be interesting to see.
    The thing is, he isn't going to be the defensive guru for an offensive head coach. It will not be, his way, or the highway.

    Fisher will be the alpha male here. Williams will answer to him more than he did to Peyton, or Gibbs.

    He is a talented DC. And with someone strong enough, and smart enough, to reign him in when necessary, and turn him lose when needed, he should do very well there.

    Personally, I hate that Fisher is in the NFC now.

    The price of an NFC Championship just went up.
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    Not for a couple of years, Ax. And with Harbaugh turning the 49ers around (assuming it isn't a one year wonder and I don't think it is), they will beat each other up for the NFC West title and won't have such a division cake walk anymore. Especially if Pete Carroll keeps improving the Seahawks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    Not for a couple of years, Ax. And with Harbaugh turning the 49ers around (assuming it isn't a one year wonder and I don't think it is), they will beat each other up for the NFC West title and won't have such a division cake walk anymore. Especially if Pete Carroll keeps improving the Seahawks.
    Mainly meant, that as a whole, the NFC just got another good coach, with the potential to turn the Rams into a consistent winner.

    As for one year wonders, they are more prevalent, than not. Only time will tell.

    For the record, the 9er's are the team I least don't want to get another ring. So, I'm hoping midnight doesn't strike on Cinderella. Let's not forget, Tebow and the Broncos handled Pittsburgh just as good as the 9er's did the Aints yesterday. Didn't help much in Foxboro.
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    I think the Giants are the least objectionable team left in the playoffs for me. I know they are a division rival and all but I absolutely can't stand the coaches of the Pats and 49ers and the Ravens have always bugged me (Ray Lewis maybe?).

    Besides, if the Giants win we can say we beat the Super Bowl winner twice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    Besides, if the Giants win we can say we beat the Super Bowl winner twice.
    There's no prize for that. In fact, that actually hurts to hear that, more than it helps.
    Because it either means

    a) a sham of a team won the Super Bowl and didn't deserve it, and this league is a farce, OR

    b) it means our team under-achieved this season big-time. And "what might have been" could have been so much better, if we were good enough to beat the SB champs twice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fear The Spear View Post
    There's no prize for that. In fact, that actually hurts to hear that, more than it helps.
    Because it either means

    a) a sham of a team won the Super Bowl and didn't deserve it, and this league is a farce, OR

    b) it means our team under-achieved this season big-time. And "what might have been" could have been so much better, if we were good enough to beat the SB champs twice.
    Fear, this was the point of my post about matchups-the paradigm of "better than/worse than" doesn't always work in accurately describing teams in comparison to one another except in cases where a team consistently dominates the game in all phases and another team is inept in all phases.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

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    Williams TWICE took a defense to the Super Bowl and on those teams the defense wasn't simply along for the ride.

    The decline of the Saints defense can be traced back to the organization's continuing focus on acquiring offensive talent and the failure to see that now aging players needed to be replaced.

    Payton was quick to replace Bush in free agency with Sproles and he spent his #1 pick on Mark Ingram.

    Seems as if the selection of a cornerback or outside linebacker may have been more appropriate to need.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    Williams TWICE took a defense to the Super Bowl and on those teams the defense wasn't simply along for the ride.

    The decline of the Saints defense can be traced back to the organization's continuing focus on acquiring offensive talent and the failure to see that now aging players needed to be replaced.

    Payton was quick to replace Bush in free agency with Sproles and he spent his #1 pick on Mark Ingram.

    Seems as if the selection of a cornerback or outside linebacker may have been more appropriate to need.
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    A bit of interesting irony there, in that Sproles turned into an effective offensive weapon for the Saints at the possible expense of a defensive upgrade.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

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    I'm with Boone and Bulldog - Greggggg is a fantastic D coordinator. The reason the Saints lost this weekend was the rest of the team giving the ball away 5 times!
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