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The thing Campbell can do to instantly improve

Oh, I'm not saying that he couldn't give us an immediate boost over JC. I think he can. I'm just worried about his durability for 15 or more games. I think after the next few games, that we should win, if JC is still struggling then it's time to pull the plug on the 5 year experiment

Fair enough concern. He's never had to do it, so it's an open question. I just don't see the light all of a sudden coming on with Campbell, though. I just think it would have happened by now.
 
Fair enough concern. He's never had to do it, so it's an open question. I just don't see the light all of a sudden coming on with Campbell, though. I just think it would have happened by now.

Unfortunately I agree. There was so much happy talk in training camp about how JC had taken more control of the huddle, was getting in guys' faces when needed, etc.

But on Sunday I didn't see progress-- I saw a regression, if anything. Everyone assumed that JC would look better simply because he's in the second year of the system, but that wasn't the case on Sunday.

He really needs to dazzle us in these next few games to keep any hope alive.
 
Once again Mike, you are not looking at the point being expressed. The grass is greener argument is invalid. Some of us are talking about the condemnation of a professional QB in the NFL who is not proving himself. I don't think Todd Collins is a long term solution, I just think Jason Campbell is done and we need to move on. Unfortunately the offseason acquisition of a viable alternative did not pan out so lets give our only other option a shot!
 
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todd collins is a career backup who had success with us because he knew al saunders playbook. that is IT. if he was such a good QB and had such potential he wouldnt have only ONE start before coming to us.
Maybe. But that's not really the issue as I see it. The issue is whether or not he would give the 2009 Redskins a better chance of winning. Based solely on what we have seen in his time here, there is at the very least an argument to be made that he might.

its always greener on the other side and we always want what we dont have. answer me this..you guys still think that cutler is the greatest thing since sliced bread?
Objection, Your Honor. Argumentative. :cool4:
 
And Cutler is definitely an upgrade over JC Regardless of his poor performance the other night.
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I seem to remember in the 07 playoff run against the Gints he was starting to peter out.

Wasn't that game against the Giants played in extremely adverse & windy conditions?
 
And Cutler is definitely an upgrade over JC Regardless of his poor performance the other night.
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Not if the problem is the design of the offense and the play calling, something I think you can make nearly as strong an argument for today as for JC being the problem holding this team back.
 
come on man!! you judge campbell off that one game and are ready to sell him down the river but cutler has a far worse game and he gets a pass?
.

I get your passion Mike. I understand the debbie downer syndrome and I don't like that it is with me now, but it is NOT based on one game and that is what I keep telling you. It has been years now and no progress. He has made no significant progress since he was a rookie who saw no action.

Last year, Cutler was in the Pro-Bowl. So yes after one bad game I will give Cutler a pass and after the same old thing with JC I will not give him a pass.

I read another post of your's and I think you are right on in the respect that you need to build a player's confidence, but at what point do you realize he isn't capable and cut ties and move on? heath Shuler never got a chance like this because he didn't deserve it either. I think the Redskins have been too patient with this kid. I think he has been coddled and I think he needs to go.

I guess it looks like I am at that point already and you are not.
 
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Not if the problem is the design of the offense and the play calling, something I think you can make nearly as strong an argument for today as for JC being the problem holding this team back.

Yes, I agree that play calling has been suspect. But this kid (JC) has been only slightly average at best in the NFL under a Hall of Fame coach and Jim Zorn. You cannot tell me Cutler would not help open up the play calling because he is a little, no scratch that, a lot quicker to take a chance and has proven he is capable of running a scheme.

Jason Campbell has been unable to run any design.

Cutler made the Pro-Bowl last year! That fact alone cements that he is better!
 
Mike, Rivers is unquestionably a better QB. Wrong or right, mistakes or not, Cutler wins. Jason doesn't. He is mediocre at best.

You are right we all want to see the Redskins succeed. You and I grew up during the glory years. We were kinda spoiled and it frustrates the hell out of me to have experienced one NFC East title and no trip to the Conference Title game nor the SB since!

I am just grateful that we can come together and discuss football. I learn a lot from you guys since I never played and enjoy the banter and most of all the passion.

But ever since I saw Jason Campbell give his first interview with the DC media, I have been leery. He didn't show me much then and for the last 4 years he hasn't shown me much.

So tell us when you come out to a game here in DC to Tailgate and I'll buy you a beer.
 
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Wrong or right, mistakes or not, Cutler wins. Jason doesn't. He is mediocre at best.

This statement caught my eye so and made me wonder...is this really true? So I did a bit of digging in the stats on nfl.com and compared these two young signal callers.

So with the understanding that there are lies, damn lies and statistics I present the following for your inspection:

Cutler - 38 career starts with a record of 18-20, 55 TDs against 41 INTs with 53 sacks (85.6 rating)
Campbell - 37 career starts with a record of 17-20, 36 TDs against 24 INTs with 68 sacks (80.7 rating)

Other considerations:

Cutler played in the AFC West for 37 of those games with all that implies.
Campbell played all 37 of his starts in the NFC East with all that implies.
Cutler played all but one of those games under the same head coach and system.
Campbell has played his games under 2 different head coaches with two different systems.
Culter's QB rating by year is nearly a flat line while Campbell's has improved every year.

Nor does this address things like drops by receivers (Moss lead the league last year) or penalties that negated big plays (Heyer's unsportsmanlike conduct bringing back Devin Thomas' TD catch last year). Granted, I am sure there are some of those things in Cutler's buried in Cutler's stats too but you have to admit that some of Campbell's worst enemies are often wearing the same uni he is.

Draw your own conclusions sports fans but I am not seeing clear cut evidence that Cutler "wins" and Jason doesn't. Not saying Jason is better or worse, just saying that the stats don't support any rash statements in either direction.
 
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Not to be off-topic, but JC isn't the only QB getting hammered online for his performance. This is from Bleacher Report about Jake Delhomme's less than "stellar" performance against the Eagles-this is mirrored in other Panther blogs I glanced at.

Panthers-Eagles: Jake Delhomme Drags Carolina Offense Down in Loss to Philly
by Ben Aikey Contributor
(Photo by Streeter Lecka/Getty Images)
VOTE NOW! - AUTHOR POLL
Who should start next week for Carolina?

Jake DelhommeJosh McCownMatt Moore vote to see results
I had previously written an article in defense of Panthers quarterback Jake Delhomme for last year’s playoff loss. After seeing what he did today against the Eagles, I may be retracting that argument.

I’ve been a supporter of Delhomme in the past, but I quickly lost my patience with him today. After a spectacular opening drive that consumed more than eight minutes and resulted in a DeAngelo Williams touchdown, Delhomme fell apart.

The first play of the second quarter saw No. 17 sacked by Eagles defensive end Trent Cole, which resulted in one of the ugliest fumbles I’ve ever seen.

That ball had to have flown about 10 yards through the air in the wrong direction before being scooped up by Victor Abiamiri for the touchdown.

Delhomme still looks like the same gunslinger wannabe that he has been his entire career in Carolina, playing like he thinks this is a backyard football game where you call it between your friends who you’re pretending to be.

Jake must think he’s Brett Favre.

As usual, Delhomme’s passes came out too fast and without much of a sense of aim. Sheldon Brown picked off a pass late in the first quarter, and again in the second, leading to a Brent Celek touchdown for the Eagles to push the lead to 24-7.

In the third quarter, Delhomme threw a third interception, this time to Akeem Jordan, and a fourth, this one to Asante Samuel on the first play of the drive after McNabb left the game with a knee injury.

Apparently, four is enough when it comes to a regular season game, and Delhomme was benched in favor of journeyman Josh McCown.

Delhomme was also sacked three times over the course of the game. He was responsible for all three of the Panthers’ first-half turnovers, and five turnovers overall. Not to mention wasting two time-outs in lieu of delay-of-game penalties.

And if even Dick Stockton notices Steve Smith isn’t getting the ball, it’s time for a change.

He’s the best receiver on the team, possibly in the division (with consideration to Marques Colston and Roddy White), and without getting the ball to your biggest threat, or trying to, you’re not going to have a chance of winning this, or any, game.

To the credit of Jeff Davidson, Panthers offensive coordinator and the man I personally hold responsible for last year’s breakdown against the Cardinals, he has tried to run the ball more times than throwing it, which is the recipe for success with the current structure of the team’s offense.

But it took until the Eagles had scored 31 unanswered points before any adjustments were made on offense...which is far too long.

Thankfully, Delhomme was axed. Enough is enough.

Josh McCown didn’t look great, and, to add insult to injury, he went down with a knee injury early in the fourth quarter.

Seriously, what’s with all the knee injuries today? With the injury to McNabb, who would have thought both teams would be playing backup quarterbacks by the third quarter?

Thankfully, Matt Moore got some playing time. Panther fans have been begging for him to be named starter since his strong showing in the 2007 season, one that still brings back painful memories of David Carr.

Moore looked much better than Delhomme or McCown. He knows how to handle himself in the pocket, be patient, and hit the wide-open receiver. Here’s hoping he starts next week and gives this team a much-needed boost.

In addition, the defensive line may as well have been wearing doormats instead of jerseys.

LeSean McCoy and Brian Westbrook easily walked through the defense into the secondary for big gains, especially around the goal line. And no legitimate pressure was applied to McNabb all day.

At least Jason Baker and John Kasay looked good.

As a fan, I wanted to turn the game off well before halftime. These are the same problems the Panthers have had for years, and the same problems which don’t ever seem to get fixed through drafting or free agency.

Is it too late to become a Saints fan? Because if this is how the Panthers are going to play this year, get me a Drew Brees jersey and a big bowl of gumbo.

Article link:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/253777-delhomme-drags-panthers-offense-down-in-loss-to-eagles

I just thought it might add a bit of context to the "Campbell-bashing" discussion.
 
Mike, Rivers is unquestionably a better QB. Wrong or right, mistakes or not, Cutler wins. Jason doesn't. He is mediocre at best.

I don't think its fair to mention this without pointing out the Broncos infamous 3-game losing streak to end last season - the one in which Cutler played them right out of the playoffs. He threw for 2 TDs and 4 costly INTs during the streak.
 
come on man!! you judge campbell off that one game and are ready to sell him down the river but cutler has a far worse game and he gets a pass?

Its not just one game dude, its his whole career here. He continues to do the same things, with little improvement.
 
Its not just one game dude, its his whole career here. He continues to do the same things, with little improvement.

I don't get this statement either. His QB rating has risen every year from that of the previous year, going from 76.5 in his first year to 77.6 in the second, 84.3 in the third and 94.6 so far this year. That is improvement.

Unlike the golden child everyone seems to want to compare Campbell too, Mr. Cutler, whose rating for each of his 4 years in the league is 88.5, 88.1, 86 and now 43.2 this year (although I don't believe this is a representative number and will change). Cutler is, in fact, showing a decline for his career.
 
I don't get this statement either. His QB rating has risen every year from that of the previous year, going from 76.5 in his first year to 77.6 in the second, 84.3 in the third and 94.6 so far this year. That is improvement.

If he posts a 91+ QB rating this year, you may be on to something. For one thing, I'm not sold on QB rating as a good indicator of QB performance - Drew Brees threw for 350 yards and 6TDs on Sunday (EDIT: and completed 76.3% of his passes!!) - but did not receive a perfect rating. If that's not insanity, I'm not sure what is.

Also, I'm more interested in concrete stats, like say TD passes. Campbell threw 12 in 2007, only 13 in 2008 (with 3 more games). He cut his fumbles in half from 07 to 08, which is good, but he's already on pace to have 32 this year, almost triple his numbers from 2007. Yes I know he's not actually going to hit that, but that's the kind of stat I don't want to see.

Also, the immeasurable things, like pocket presence and general football IQ, don't seem to be improving, and these things are the backbone of any good QB.

Unlike the golden child everyone seems to want to compare Campbell too, Mr. Cutler, whose rating for each of his 4 years in the league is 88.5, 88.1, 86 and now 43.2 this year (although I don't believe this is a representative number and will change). Cutler is, in fact, showing a decline for his career.

Well I can't speak for others, but I'm in the "Cutler is vastly overrated" camp, and was praying to sweet 8lb 6oz baby jesus that the Broncos didn't trade him to us.
 
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Campbell - 37 career starts with a record of 17-20, 36 TDs against 24 INTs with 68 sacks (80.7 rating)

I have Campbell at 15-21 w/1 no decision (Chicago game in '07 when he got injured - Collins came in and gets credit for that game).

2006 - 2-5
2007 - 5-7
2008 - 8-8
2009 - 0-1
 
You are correct Sonny. I somehow managed to give both he and Culter credit for winning this year so they both have an extra win that they should not have. If you want to take the Chicago game away, that's fine although at this point I think it is knit picking. I was counting Starts and Wins, straight up, and that game didn't even cross my mind.

So after corrections we have:

Cutler with 38 starts and a record 17-21
Campbell with 37 starts and a record of 15-21-1

I still don't see much difference.
 
I am not a "huge" fan of Cutler either, but he did go to the Pro-Bowl and led the 3rd best offense last year. He is a better QB than JC.

Last year the Broncos went 8-8, same as us. Granted the Pro-Bowl QB had a slide at the end of the year, but of their 8 wins Cutler drives helped the Broncos take the lead in the 4th quarter 5 times (meaning he won the game on late drives). Campbell only had one 4th quarter win against the Saints in our 8 even when there were many we were clearly in a position to win but fell short. Denver lost several games that were not close enough to win late and the only game we clearly had no chance was Pittsburgh.

Neo, your stats don't show this or the fact that the Broncos Defense has sucked for years and that JC has consistently had a top rated D (except for one season)?

I may have jumped the gun a bit by saying he wins, but when looking at career records are we taking into consideration the entire picture or are we going to rely on stats, stats that still show Cutler was a better QB.

With all of that said, Jason Campbell still needs to go.

***I researched NFL.com for my analysis***
 
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