A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Injuries or not, this one we gotta have.

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  1. #1
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    Florida Atlantic

    Default The thing Campbell can do to instantly improve

    There is one thing that Campbell does not do, that all "elite" QBs in this league do, and its a very simple thing. If he does this one simple thing, he will eliminate most of the costly fumbles, and possibly advance into the next level of QB play.

    What is this mystery technique that seems to elude our franchise QB? Stepping up into the pocket.

    Against the Giants (and a lot of last year), it was painfully obvious. Their DTs are good, but nothing special (except when Tuck lines up at DT). But for most of the day, the OL was doing a pretty good job of creating a pocket. But Campbell stood in the very back of it, where the DEs (getting ridden out of the play by our OTs) still had a shot at him. One long arm swipe, and its a fumble, and 6 the other way, as we saw. To avoid Osi's sack-fumble, all Campbell had to do was take one step forward (well that, and maybe not hold onto the ball for 4 seconds, but that's another thread altogether). Maybe he still gets sacked, but chances are he doesn't fumble, and if he does, it doesn't go for 6 the other way.

    Anyway, this is just my observation, and I really can't believe this hasn't been a point of emphasis from Zorn. All the elite QBs in this league seem to "feel" the pressure from the ends, and simply step into the pocket to avoid it. Tom Brady is the absolute master of this, and Peyton is pretty good at it too. I don't know if this can be taught, as its sort of a 6th sense kind of thing, but maybe Zorn needs to modify the bag-drill, but having guys stand at Campbell's sides, and throw the pads at him from perpendicular. Campbell would have to step up to avoid getting hit, just like in the game.

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
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    Air Force

    Default

    You have that figured out. I have that figured out. Most of Reskins Nation has it figured out. Campbell better start figuring it out or the danny will be getting Tebow jerseys made up in a couple of weeks
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  3. #3
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    Default

    The talking heads call it "pocket presence", I just call it peripheral vision. Depending on your drop and the spacing, you should be able to see the OT push the DE wide at which point it's time to step up. At least that's how it appears to this undeducated layperson anyway. If someone has actually played or coached the position and knows for sure, I'd love to hear their take on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    You have that figured out. I have that figured out. Most of Reskins Nation has it figured out. Campbell better start figuring it out or the danny will be getting Tebow jerseys made up in a couple of weeks
    Please, for God's sake NO!!!
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  4. #4
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    Florida Atlantic

    Default

    Yeah, I agree - no Tebow. The general consensus is that Tebow will NOT be a legit NFL QB...of course that most-likely means theDanny is in love with him.
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  5. #5
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    Air Force

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yusuf06 View Post

    Please, for God's sake NO!!!
    I agree. But from the sound of things, it's gonna be an uncapped season. You know the danny is spooging over that. Tebow. Vick. Dieon. Smith. . He'll blow money like no tomorrow.

    If only he'd get a GM
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    Default

    I agree with the OP, but I take it a step further. JC is a mobile and elusive guy when he chooses to be. Yet he seems to prefer throwing an incomplete pass than running for a first down.

    I lost track of how many times it appeared he could have run for a first down, or at least significant yardage, but instead threw a pick or an incomplete pass. The pick where he crossed the LOS first was just unbelievable. You're already two yards past the line. KEEP RUNNING!

    If he shows teams that he's willing to beat them with his legs, they'll have to respect it. Why he doesn't do this is mind-boggling to me. He's not a good enough player to forfeit one his best attributes.
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  7. #7
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    Florida State

    Default

    I just cannot for the life of me figure out why everyone is so willing to give this kid credit. I think as an individual he is a Class Act, physical ability is definitely there, but yesterday on the field he showed the same propensity to make the same mistakes he has made during his entire tenure as the Skins QB. This kid does not possess the mental capacity to be a quality QB in the NFL. Joe Gibbs called questionable game plans to deal with Jason's inabilities and now from the looks of it 2 years later Jim Zorn is doing the same thing.

    I said it on ES over 3 years ago and I will say it again today, as much hope as all of us have that this young man with great character will be a quality QB in the NFL, I just don't think it will ever happen.

    I know this is not a popular statement and I know it is only the 1st game of the year, but I think we should try Todd Collins as the starter. He showed 2 seasons ago that he can win. Can he do it all year? I don't know, but I would rather see him in there than Jason Campbell.
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post

    I know this is not a popular statement and I know it is only the 1st game of the year, but I think we should try Todd Collins as the starter. He showed 2 seasons ago that he can win. Can he do it all year? I don't know, but I would rather see him in there than Jason Campbell.
    I'm getting close to feeling the same way. Not there yet, but close.
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    Default

    By the way, if we do go to Collins at some point this year, I think we have to pluck Chase off the Saints practice squad and put him on the roster.

    I wouldn't be real confident with a disgruntled, benched JC being our only backup QB. We have no idea how TC would hold up over the course of a season. And from what I've heard from Giants fans, Andre Woodson flat-out can't play. They were glad he was cut...they were only ticked off that we signed him right before playing them.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    I just cannot for the life of me figure out why everyone is so willing to give this kid credit. I think as an individual he is a Class Act, physical ability is definitely there, but yesterday on the field he showed the same propensity to make the same mistakes he has made during his entire tenure as the Skins QB. This kid does not possess the mental capacity to be a quality QB in the NFL. Joe Gibbs called questionable game plans to deal with Jason's inabilities and now from the looks of it 2 years later Jim Zorn is doing the same thing.

    I said it on ES over 3 years ago and I will say it again today, as much hope as all of us have that this young man with great character will be a quality QB in the NFL, I just don't think it will ever happen.

    I know this is not a popular statement and I know it is only the 1st game of the year, but I think we should try Todd Collins as the starter. He showed 2 seasons ago that he can win. Can he do it all year? I don't know, but I would rather see him in there than Jason Campbell.
    I'm not ready for Collins yet. But I'm about 98% done with Campbell
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  11. #11

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    Indiana

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    my gosh..collins is the new brennan!!
    That gets my vote as "dig-of-the-week". Good observation, Mike.

    I still have not entered "panic-mode" yet-which is what I was obliquely referring to in my Twilight Zone episode post-sure, the Skins made lots of mistakes-but anyone not knowing the score and reading the comments would assume the final score was something like 35-3 instead of a one td difference. Granted, I have a tendency to try to find an upside to seemingly bad situations, but the nagging thought I keep having is this: you play a not-even-close-to-what-you're-capabilities-are game, make some really dumb mistakes and lose to a consensus probable Superbowl contender or at least deep-run-in-the-playoffs team by only one touchdown. There is a reason the Giants didn't blow the Skins out and that reason, I believe, is even playing badly the Skins are not this year's Lions or anything close to it.

    Sure, give Collins a shot-but make damn sure he-or JC, for that matter- are not restricted to Moss on 80% of throws-Kelly and Mitchell are two tall athletic receivers who need to become credible threats for a secondary to deal with. If Collins plays and winds up throwing to Moss as much as JC does-then my "you're screwing up, dude" radar is going to start focusing on Zorn big time.
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  12. #12
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    Florida State

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    my gosh..collins is the new brennan!!
    I respect your football knowledge. You know the game better than I do and I will admit that up front, but what I do know is that we have invested entirely too much in Jason Campbell and he has not shown nor will he ever show a return in the investment.

    Mike you and I had a conversation about Brennan and how I felt he was better than he is. I still think he will accomplish about the same as Jason Campbell in this league as a quality back up QB, even if he did struggle through the pre-season. My point is less about Brennan or Collins as it is a protestation of Jason.

    My whole point to the Brennan argument and the point of the Todd Collins statement is that Jason Campbell sucks! He sucks! He has never shown he can win consistently after making the same mistakes over and over now for years! Throwing the ball for an INT after stepping over the line of scrimmage is a Rookie mistake, not a 5th year Vet mistake. Todd Collins on the other hand has proven he can win although durability may be an issue.

    It is not so much who replaces JC as much as he needs to be replaced and the sooner the better. Why not let Todd Collins have a run at it since JC will be gone at year's end anyway? Jason Campbell will be benched by October! If not, he should be!

    The Washington Redskins will not win with Jason Campbell! Last year after we found ourselves in this same position, a loss to the Giants and people calling for JC's head, a year later, the same results. He may take us on a 4-2 or 5-1 run, but will inevitably fail!

    I cannot believe I have become one of those guys I did not like on ES who always seemed to be down on the Skins, but the Front Office and coaching staff tried to dump him in the offseason.

    Just start Collins! Why not?
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    Just start Collins! Why not?
    Because his arm will be toast in about five games. Remember some of the floaters he was tossing awhile back after a couple of games?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Because his arm will be toast in about five games. Remember some of the floaters he was tossing awhile back after a couple of games?

    So a smart, veteran QB that makes correct decisions a majority of the time who may make an errant throw or a young QB who just does not seem to be able to grasp the QB position in the NFL and makes poor decisions constantly that cost turnovers and loses games? Well, Campbell isn't accurate enough to complete a pass over 30 yards without yards after the catch.

    Boone made a statement in another thread that the game was never really out of reach. As poorly as we played at times during that game, in reality we were never really out of it. Why couldn't we come back since we were never really down by an insurmountable margin? It is my assertion that we have a QB who is incapable. And I just don't get why, in his 5th NFL season without any significant progress, he is still given the chance.

    We never gave Heath Shuler the "credit he deserved" because we spent too much money on him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Because his arm will be toast in about five games. Remember some of the floaters he was tossing awhile back after a couple of games?
    Not at all. Please explain for us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyJ View Post
    Not at all. Please explain for us.
    I seem to remember in the 07 playoff run against the Gints he was starting to peter out. If I remember correctly in Seattle he threw at least two picks that he never should have thrown, one being a limp noodle over the middle to seal out fate. I remember the announcers in one of those games, after Collins tried to go deep and the ball was way underthrown, saying he just didn't have the arm to go that deep anymore. He had a good run, as did the whole team, but I think by that time we had spent our emotional Sean Taylor wad
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    Virginia Tech

    Default

    Todd's arm is fine as long as he can step up and throw on balance. What he can't do, and never could, is throw off his back foot or from awkward "platforms" when the pass rush doesn't allow him to step into the throw. In the Seatlle game that was badly exposed given the OL was decimated and overrun by the Seahawks pass rush.

    It's tempting for me to say "put Todd in" too given Jason's clear struggles with pocket presence and the speed of the game still, but I'm not there yet. The next five games, against opponents who are not arguably the best pass rushing teams in the NFL, playing at home in their season openers, will seal JC's fate for me personally. He hasn't faced his crossroads game of 2009 yet---but it's coming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    I seem to remember in the 07 playoff run against the Gints he was starting to peter out. If I remember correctly in Seattle he threw at least two picks that he never should have thrown, one being a limp noodle over the middle to seal out fate. I remember the announcers in one of those games, after Collins tried to go deep and the ball was way underthrown, saying he just didn't have the arm to go that deep anymore. He had a good run, as did the whole team, but I think by that time we had spent our emotional Sean Taylor wad
    Sounds like selective memory to me. He threw deep successfully many times during that run - including that Giants game, and the subsequent Viking, Cowboy, and Seahawk games. Can he throw it 60 yards on a line? No, but deep balls really don't call for such passes. Besides, there is no deep element to the passing game with Campbell in there - what difference does it make if Collins isn't flinging 60 yd TD passes w/regularity?

    Those picks against Seattle were the result of trying to make plays late in a game in the playoffs - especially the last one.

    And while I'm certain that the team was quite emotional about what happened with Taylor, I'm more inclined to think that the run had everything to do with better execution - especially at the QB position. Which Todd Collins provided.
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  19. #19
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    Air Force

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyJ View Post
    Sounds like selective memory to me. He threw deep successfully many times during that run - including that Giants game, and the subsequent Viking, Cowboy, and Seahawk games. Can he throw it 60 yards on a line? No, but deep balls really don't call for such passes. Besides, there is no deep element to the passing game with Campbell in there - what difference does it make if Collins isn't flinging 60 yd TD passes w/regularity?

    Those picks against Seattle were the result of trying to make plays late in a game in the playoffs - especially the last one.

    And while I'm certain that the team was quite emotional about what happened with Taylor, I'm more inclined to think that the run had everything to do with better execution - especially at the QB position. Which Todd Collins provided.
    Oh, I'm not saying that he couldn't give us an immediate boost over JC. I think he can. I'm just worried about his durability for 15 or more games. I think after the next few games, that we should win, if JC is still struggling then it's time to pull the plug on the 5 year experiment
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    It's tempting for me to say "put Todd in" too given Jason's clear struggles with pocket presence and the speed of the game still, but I'm not there yet. The next five games, against opponents who are not arguably the best pass rushing teams in the NFL, playing at home in their season openers, will seal JC's fate for me personally. He hasn't faced his crossroads game of 2009 yet---but it's coming.
    That's the problem, though. These upcoming games have the feel and potential of putting lipstick on a pig.

    What do you do if Campbell puts up good stat lines (as he did against the Giants), the team wins, but the offense continues to struggle to put up points? Let's say they're winning 20-14 or 16-7 type of games. The Redskins could come out of this stretch with a great record w/o Campbell having improved his game. Can Zorn credibly pull Campbell in this timeframe?

    I don't care about Campbell's stats - I want to see him have COMMAND of the offense. This schedule is setting up nicely for Campbell to break our hearts again.
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