A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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    Default Raheem Morris in for a chat:

    He had a meeting with the Shanaclan. What does that mean?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinsfan76 View Post
    He had a meeting with the Shanaclan. What does that mean?
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    That he wants us to be, "Youngry"?
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    That Jim Hazlett's aural appendages are spontaneously combusting?
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    I can't see it being for Haslett's position. Morris has zero experience with the 3-4 defense. However, he was a great Secondary Coach for the Bucs and our Secondary is not great.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    I can't see it being for Haslett's position. Morris has zero experience with the 3-4 defense. However, he was a great Secondary Coach for the Bucs and our Secondary is not great.
    Exactamundo. He is interviewing for the DB position. Our current DB coach is on thin ice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy Burner View Post
    Exactamundo. He is interviewing for the DB position. Our current DB coach is on thin ice.
    Yep. While I think he'd prefer to be a DC, he could definitely improve our secondary. Hope he ends up here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy Burner View Post
    Our current DB coach is on thin ice.
    Hopefully, so is Danny Smith.

    Our return game sucked. And he kept calling for directional kickoffs from a guy that can't do it!

    And 5 blocked FG/EP?

    Really?
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    Hmmm...I don't want to jump the gun or go overboard on speculation but I'm wondering if there might be a "Stay tuned...." element attached here regarding the Skins coaching staff?
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    Hopefully, so is Danny Smith.

    Our return game sucked. And he kept calling for directional kickoffs from a guy that can't do it!

    And 5 blocked FG/EP?

    Really?
    Really? You're still stuck on firing Danny Smith for things he has no control over? He can't control a guy having a massive vertical leap at the perfect time to block a kick, or how far a guy returns a kick from 8 yards deep in the end zone. They are two things you absolutely can't coach.

    As far as the things he is able to control with coaching, like coverage on kicks, blocking schemes, etc. we were first in the league by a landslide in those categories, and have been every single year that he's been here. He won't be leaving, and he shouldn't be. It would be akin to firing the OC because the quarterback has a noodle arm.

    Would you rather have team that will never give up a return TD, or a team that gives up plenty, but gets one themselves on rare occasions? I'm more than happy at the fact that our special teams is the top unit in the league. There's not really room to move up from #1.

    SF has the highest return average in the league at 27.2, we held them to 11.1.
    MIN has the 2nd best average at 26.9, we held them to 18.6.
    NYJ are 4th at 26.3, we held them to 12.2.

    29 Special teams TDs were scored this season, none against us.
    Last edited by Nobody; 01-05-12 at 03:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by servumtuum View Post
    Hmmm...I don't want to jump the gun or go overboard on speculation but I'm wondering if there might be a "Stay tuned...." element attached here regarding the Skins coaching staff?
    REALLY serv? Are you thinking Morris could replace Haslett? Wouldn't Spagnuolo be a better choice for that than Morris? I would be shocked if Morris were considered for anything other than DB coach.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    REALLY serv? Are you thinking Morris could replace Haslett? Wouldn't Spagnuolo be a better choice for that than Morris? I would be shocked if Morris were considered for anything other than DB coach.
    Uh, no Jimbo, I meant it in a general sense in terms of "look out for possible job losses and replacements hired" across the board; an exercise in accountability for coaching failures that may be dealt with across the board.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by servumtuum View Post
    Uh, no Jimbo, I meant it in a general sense in terms of "look out for possible job losses and replacements hired" across the board; an exercise in accountability for coaching failures that may be dealt with across the board.
    Ah ok, that makes MUCH more sense. Our secondary was a weak link down the stretch but I'd be mildly surprised at any other coaching staff changes...except maybe a coach/babysitter for Williams and Davis.
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    Nothing I saw from our secondary the past 2 years has me feeling too down about the idea of a shakeup.

    For that matter, I've not seen enough from Hazlett to have me too upset about his possible, however unlikely, replacement. Man comes up with solid enough gameplans, I suppose, but I've seen precious little in the way of compelling in-game adjustments or particuarly inspired playcalling. Not crazy about the idea of starting over just for starting over's sake, and I DO want to see us run the 3-4....but truth is Haz to me is still just a guy.

    As to Danny Smith...it's pretty hard to argue that our special teams under Mr. Smith have been anything but mediocre. At best. For an organization that practically invented modern special teams under George Allen, and featured brilliant incarnations since under the likes of Wayne Sevier and Pete Rodriguez, watching the Smith Boyz over the past few years has been an unwanted cold shower.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    Nothing I saw from our secondary the past 2 years has me feeling too down about the idea of a shakeup.

    For that matter, I've not seen enough from Hazlett to have me too upset about his possible, however unlikely, replacement. Man comes up with solid enough gameplans, I suppose, but I've seen precious little in the way of compelling in-game adjustments or particuarly inspired playcalling. Not crazy about the idea of starting over just for starting over's sake, and I DO want to see us run the 3-4....but truth is Haz to me is still just a guy.

    As to Danny Smith...it's pretty hard to argue that our special teams under Mr. Smith have been anything but mediocre. At best. For an organization that practically invented modern special teams under George Allen, and featured brilliant incarnations since under the likes of Wayne Sevier and Pete Rodriguez, watching the Smith Boyz over the past few years has been an unwanted cold shower.
    Agree on all counts.

    The secondary, on paper, has enough talent to get the job done when healthy. In reality, they seem undisciplined. And that seems to suggest coaching inadequacy.

    Haz doesn't seem to possess the inspirational leadership that has his players willing to run through fire wearing gasoline shorts.

    And, Danny Smith has been doing a below average job here for too many years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    Nothing I saw from our secondary the past 2 years has me feeling too down about the idea of a shakeup.

    For that matter, I've not seen enough from Hazlett to have me too upset about his possible, however unlikely, replacement. Man comes up with solid enough gameplans, I suppose, but I've seen precious little in the way of compelling in-game adjustments or particuarly inspired playcalling. Not crazy about the idea of starting over just for starting over's sake, and I DO want to see us run the 3-4....but truth is Haz to me is still just a guy.

    As to Danny Smith...it's pretty hard to argue that our special teams under Mr. Smith have been anything but mediocre. At best. For an organization that practically invented modern special teams under George Allen, and featured brilliant incarnations since under the likes of Wayne Sevier and Pete Rodriguez, watching the Smith Boyz over the past few years has been an unwanted cold shower.
    The thing about special teams, is people tend to place way too much emphasis on guys scoring. It isn't common. Only 14 players in the entire league scored a return TD this season. That leaves way more that didn't score, who had kickers get blocked or miss kicks, but who all gave up excessively more yards on returns than we did, and also gave up TDs on special teams.

    Judging a special teams unit by the TDs it scores is a ridiculous way to look at it, because there are so many more things involved. I'd rather pin a team inside their 20 to start every possession than to score 1 or 2 special teams TDs while giving them the ball at the 35 or 40 every drive.
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    So far, brother Ex, you're the only one I've seen suggest that TD scoring is anyone's measure of special teams.

    They certainly aren't for me.

    I judge them on impact plays, both positive and negative. On balance, I'd say the Redskins special teams are deep in the red on that ledger over the past few seasons. No I don't have stats at hand to back it up...and frankly I think they're a lousy barometer anyway. What they can't account for is tone, timing, impact within a given game.

    When the D. Smith Era is finally over, my lasting impression is going to be of botched game-winning FG attempts, untimely surrender of big field-flipping returns, precious few impact returns with games on the line...just generally "meh" at best, and "oh **** not again" at worst.
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    Everyone here and at the other place that has railed against him says we don't score TDs and we miss FGs. Kicking ability and return ability are two things that cannot be coached. Other than those two things, we rank top 3 year in and year out where it matters - stopping the opponent.

    Look at it from an offense/defense perspective - would you rather have an offense that scores once in a while, or a defense that is consistently guaranteed to shut down the opponent every single possession?

    Our ST pins the opponent deep in their own territory on nearly every single kick/punt. Nobody scores on our ST unit, and rarely do you see anyone return it more than 10 yards against us. We gave up under 16 yard per return this year, good enough for tops in the league again. In the time since Smith has been here, this has been the result almost every year. When we aren't 1st, we're 2nd or 3rd. Also, our return average isn't at the top of the league, but it isn't at the bottom either, we generally stay in the 13th-17th range, which is better than half the league.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    REALLY serv? Are you thinking Morris could replace Haslett? Wouldn't Spagnuolo be a better choice for that than Morris? I would be shocked if Morris were considered for anything other than DB coach.
    BTW, you mentioned Spags; if the fans on those boards I was digging through for Redskins Recon for the Eagles and Giants games could have their way, Spags would be on a plane heading east right now. A lot of fans of both of those teams want him back.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme View Post
    Everyone here and at the other place that has railed against him says we don't score TDs and we miss FGs. Kicking ability and return ability are two things that cannot be coached. Other than those two things, we rank top 3 year in and year out where it matters - stopping the opponent.
    Perhaps not....but things like timing and precision, sound schemes, lane discipline, etc....those things impact "kicking ability" and "return ability" directly. And they CAN be taught, instilled and demanded.

    Do you disagree?

    Look at it from an offense/defense perspective - would you rather have an offense that scores once in a while, or a defense that is consistently guaranteed to shut down the opponent every single possession?

    Our ST pins the opponent deep in their own territory on nearly every single kick/punt. Nobody scores on our ST unit, and rarely do you see anyone return it more than 10 yards against us. We gave up under 16 yard per return this year, good enough for tops in the league again. In the time since Smith has been here, this has been the result almost every year. When we aren't 1st, we're 2nd or 3rd. Also, our return average isn't at the top of the league, but it isn't at the bottom either, we generally stay in the 13th-17th range, which is better than half the league.
    Do you discount the notion of timing I raised? Of the countless times we follow up a crucial score with a blown lane assignment that allows a KO return to midfield? Or a KO out of bounds? Or making FG's all game long right up until the one we HAVE to make?

    That's the point of the "impact" stuff I'm trying to get across. I think the stats you provide are great---surprising even. But they also strike me as misleading, much like the oft-repeated mantra that we used to have a good defense because it was ranked high in total yardage, when the eyeball test showed a D that generally hung in there but always seemed to collapse, on cue, at the most crucial times in the game.

    And has any team ever surrendered 5 blocked FG attempts in a season? I ask that seriously.

    To me special teams has become a huge impact part of the game. Positive plays---long returns, generated turnovers, blocked kicks, even, yes, scores---as well as the kind of negative ones I've mentioned. To my eye, the Smith Era comes up decidedly short on that count.

    Bottom line, I've seen enough from this ST incarnation.
    Last edited by Om; 01-05-12 at 04:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    I can't see it being for Haslett's position. Morris has zero experience with the 3-4 defense. However, he was a great Secondary Coach for the Bucs and our Secondary is not great.
    Who says we have to keep the 3-4 defense if we bring in a new coordinator ?
    If a team truly believes in a coordinator, they're going to let him implement the scheme he wants to do. Why handcuff him ?
    Jim Haslett wasn't expected to keep the 4-3 when he was hired.
    The majority of the time, a new D.C. does indeed shake things up when he arrives, and it's the exception that he keeps the same scheme, just for the sake of consistency.
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