RG3 will declare for draft

Boone said:

Yeah, the high scoring did jump out at me. Again, interesting thoughts...

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Isn't that what we want?

While defense in the Big 12 will not likely be confused with defense in the SEC anytime soon, it isn't like we are talking about a guy who played in the WAC or the MAC or some sort of Division II school. This is a legit conference with the last team to win the National Championship not in the SEC.

The thing to remember is that without Griffin, this team was probably bottom half of the Big 12 table. It isn't like he was playing with 11 other guys on offense who are all potential NFL draft picks. So keep in mind not only Griffin's competition but Griffin's teammates.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_31a15698-368b-587c-ac57-a4f60ed69a44.html

According to league sources, this was the trade landscape entering the weekend:
• Cleveland (No. 4 pick): The Browns are unwilling at this point to include their second first-round pick, No. 22, as part of any trade package with the Rams.
• Washington (No. 6): The Redskins appear willing to trade their first-round pick next year, as well as their No. 6 overall pick this year. But they aren’t willing to include their second-rounder this year, which isn’t acceptable to the Rams.
• Miami (No. 8): This one appears to be dead in the water, somewhere off Florida’s Gold Coast. After losing the tug-of-war for coach Jeff Fisher, the Dolphins aren’t eager to do business with the Rams — or do the Rams any favors.
• Seattle (No. 12): No chance. The last thing the Rams want to do is send RG3 to a division rival and face him twice a year. The same applies for Arizona, which picks 13th.

fansince62 said:

Isn't that what we want?

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Of course. I'm just acknowledging the possibility made that some of RGIII's success could be due to playing against less than stout defenses. Not sure if that's the case or not. Bottom line, I think it's hard to minimize or discount RGIII's success based on opposition.

SNF said:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_31a15698-368b-587c-ac57-a4f60ed69a44.html

According to league sources, this was the trade landscape entering the weekend:
• Cleveland (No. 4 pick): The Browns are unwilling at this point to include their second first-round pick, No. 22, as part of any trade package with the Rams.
• Washington (No. 6): The Redskins appear willing to trade their first-round pick next year, as well as their No. 6 overall pick this year. But they aren’t willing to include their second-rounder this year, which isn’t acceptable to the Rams.
• Miami (No. 8): This one appears to be dead in the water, somewhere off Florida’s Gold Coast. After losing the tug-of-war for coach Jeff Fisher, the Dolphins aren’t eager to do business with the Rams — or do the Rams any favors.
• Seattle (No. 12): No chance. The last thing the Rams want to do is send RG3 to a division rival and face him twice a year. The same applies for Arizona, which picks 13th.

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Very interesting. I'm surprised we're hanging on to our 2nd rounder this year that doggedly. Good for us, I guess. Though it seems that the door is wide open for a mystery team to swoop in and wow the Rams, which makes me nervous. If we get RGIII for two firsts and a second, I think I'm good with that. I don't mind Shanallen calling the Rams' bluff and holding out for a better deal, but if some other team swoops in and steals the pick because we wouldn't give our second rounder, I'll be pissed.

SNF said:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_31a15698-368b-587c-ac57-a4f60ed69a44.html

According to league sources, this was the trade landscape entering the weekend:
• Cleveland (No. 4 pick): The Browns are unwilling at this point to include their second first-round pick, No. 22, as part of any trade package with the Rams.
• Washington (No. 6): The Redskins appear willing to trade their first-round pick next year, as well as their No. 6 overall pick this year. But they aren’t willing to include their second-rounder this year, which isn’t acceptable to the Rams.
• Miami (No. 8): This one appears to be dead in the water, somewhere off Florida’s Gold Coast. After losing the tug-of-war for coach Jeff Fisher, the Dolphins aren’t eager to do business with the Rams — or do the Rams any favors.
• Seattle (No. 12): No chance. The last thing the Rams want to do is send RG3 to a division rival and face him twice a year. The same applies for Arizona, which picks 13th.

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If true, this news is very refreshing. If trading away next year's first as a part of a package for Griffin, it puts a premium on keeping the 2nd rounder from this year and turning it into a pick at a position of need that becomes a starter for us for the next 5 - 7 years.

In my opinion, your first and second round picks should quickly become starters for you. When you think of it, over the next two draft years, that should arguably become four new starters for you that are considered upgrades at their respective positions. Losing two or more of these four picks that we have in the first and second round over the next two years becomes a steep price to pay for a team that is still thin at several positions on the roster.

A 3rd and one of our 4ths from 2012, and a 1st and 3rd from 2013 is plenty enough to offer in my opinion. The Rams have widely publicized that they want out of the #2 spot. Why should they have so much leverage, especially if some of the other contenders for Griffin determine that they are no longer interested? It's imperative that our front office holds firm.

Again - it's all about timing. We have the leverage now because we have the Manning and Flynn potential out there. Depending what happens there, we may either maintain some leverage (if it becomes clear no one else is willing to pay the price to move up, or finds their QB elsewhere), or we may lose it.

The best option for us (and I think this is where the momentum is) is to finalize a deal to move up now.

Agreed Boone. Although, I have to say that I really like the idea of keeping our 2nd rounders both this year and next year while still making this deal. My fear all along is that we would get Griffin but give up so many high draft picks to get him that we would be unable to get any difference makers to go with him until 2014.

Was coming over here to post that article - well done SNF.

Agree on moving up soon and the price to do so could be rather attractive. Not as bad as we were expecting.

As has been mentioned for more than a month, the Browns are not going to trade up. They are fixated on Richardson and keeping their draft picks.

And as mentioned a few weeks ago, keeping our second round picks this year and next is the key to making it work. I think we will be able to pull it off.

Neophyte said:

Agreed Boone. Although, I have to say that I really like the idea of keeping our 2nd rounders both this year and next year while still making this deal. My fear all along is that we would get Griffin but give up so many high draft picks to get him that we would be unable to get any difference makers to go with him until 2014.

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Neo...you're right to a degree and I prefer this path as well...but you must qualify by what the team can accomplish in FA........the Iggles crashed and burned last season...but they finished pretty strong. we'll learn this season whether the playoff ladder can be ascended by teams that pursue FA strategies (a bit better than the Skins have in the past).

Burgundy Burner said:

Was coming over here to post that article - well done SNF.

Agree on moving up soon and the price to do so could be rather attractive. Not as bad as we were expecting.

As has been mentioned for more than a month, the Browns are not going to trade up. They are fixated on Richardson and keeping their draft picks.

And as mentioned a few weeks ago, keeping our second round picks this year and next is the key to making it work. I think we will be able to pull it off.

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BB....the Rams do this if there is a player they really like whom they expect ot be around at 6. I doubt Kalil will be there or Blackmon.....what's the thinking? Blackmon slides? or is there another player the Rams are hot for? from the Rams pov.....getting ANY picks is a good deal if they don't want to select at 2 anyway and are confident that they can get one of the top players on their board once number 1s are swapped.

This is the way that I wanted Shanahan and Allen to go too. The two 1st round picks are gone that is obvious and I would have no problem mixing in two or three picks ranging from the 3rd to 5th round but I would want to keep my 2nd round picks this year and next. If Cleveland isn't willing to give up their second 1st round pick this year then we still have a shot. It does make you wonder if Shanahan and Allen will change their tune the closer we get to the draft.

Another article I found is below but really no new information in it.

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball-washington-wizards/news/Report-Redskins-wont-part-with-2nd-in-RG?blockID=662928&feedID=6355

The problem SF is that I have not heard anything about Cleveland's willingness to give up this years 2nd round pick which is still better than our 2nd rounder (even if we were willing to part with it) and only drops the Rams to the 4th spot which would ensure they got either Kalil or Blackmon.

So I did some research this morning to try and get a better grip on the Big 12 football conference. My goal was to see if this nagging feeling in my stomach was correct....even though I haven't seen it discussed on any television program, in any sports page, or anywhere on the internet. Here is what I found, and I'll leave conclusions up to the individual. All stats are provided by espn.

Here are the average yards per game, and the average points scored per game, for each of the teams in the Big 12 for 2011.

Yards/G Points/G

1 Baylor 587.1 45.3
2 Oklahoma State 545.8 48.7
3 Oklahoma 512.3 39.5
4 Texas A&M 490.2 39.1
5 Missouri 475.5 32.8
6 Texas Tech 470.6 33.8
7 Texas 392.5 28.1
8 Iowa State 386.5 22.7
9 Kansas State 337 31.8
10 Kansas 326.8 22.3

These numbers appear to be pretty extraodinary, especially when compared to the other conferences. Of note, 4 of the 10 teams average nearly 500 yards of offense a game, and score nearly 40 points a game. Now, let's compare that to the SEC.

Yards/G Points/G

1 Georgia 408.5 32
2 Arkansas 438.1 36.8
3 Alabama 429.6 34.8
4 LSU 355.1 35.7
5 South Carolina 373.5 30.1
6 Mississippi State 357.2 25.3
7 Vanderbilt 339.1 26.7
8 Auburn 337.8 25.7
9 Florida 328.7 25.5
10 Tennessee 332.7 20.3
11 Ole Miss 281.3 16.1
12 Kentucky 259.8 15.8

Notice that unlike the Big 10, no team averaged nearly 500 yards a game--let alone 4 teams. The highest ypg average in the SEC was Arkansas, with 438 ypg. Also, no team in the SEC averaged 40 points a game--let alone 4 teams. Arkansas again led the SEC with 36.8 ypg.

So how does this compare to the other conferences? For brevity, here are a few interesting notes:

The highest scoring team in the ACC averaged 34.3 points per game. Out of the 12 teams in the conference, only 3 averaged over 30 points per game.

The highest scoring team in the Big East averaged 37 points per game. Out of the 8 teams in the conference, only 2 averaged over 30 points per game.

The highest scoring team in the Big 10 averaged 44.1 points per game. But out of the 12 teams in the conference, only 3 averaged over 30 points per game.

fansince62 said:

BB....the Rams do this if there is a player they really like whom they expect ot be around at 6. I doubt Kalil will be there or Blackmon.....what's the thinking? Blackmon slides? or is there another player the Rams are hot for? from the Rams pov.....getting ANY picks is a good deal if they don't want to select at 2 anyway and are confident that they can get one of the top players on their board once number 1s are swapped.

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The Rams are simply looking to stockpile picks, but their opportunities are shrinking. Cleveland will not give up that 2nd first rounder and that is a deal breaker. Too, the Rams will not be able to make a trade with the Dolphins - there is bad blood between the two franchises with regards to Jeff Fisher (Miami thought that Fisher was all but signed to be THEIR head coach). Seattle is too far back and they know it.

That leaves the Redskins - and the Rams are backed into a corner of sorts. Unless Cleveland has a change of heart (highly unlikely), the 'Skins will be able to swing this trade without losing any second rounders.

Burgundy Burner said:

The Rams are simply looking to stockpile picks, but their opportunities are shrinking. Cleveland will not give up that 2nd first rounder and that is a deal breaker. Too, the Rams will not be able to make a trade with the Dolphins - there is bad blood between the two franchises with regards to Jeff Fisher (Miami thought that Fisher was all but signed to be THEIR head coach). Seattle is too far back and they know it.

That leaves the Redskins - and the Rams are backed into a corner of sorts. Unless Cleveland has a change of heart (highly unlikely), the 'Skins will be able to swing this trade without losing any second rounders.

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Love the optimism. Fingers crossed. So do you think this deal goes down before the draft and if so, how soon? (Might be worth a poll of the board...)

BTW, I'm tracking and scoring 7 key RG3 trade milestones leading up to the draft. Milestone #1 was today - no franchise tag for Flynn = advantage WAS (over STL.) Two more days to milestone #2 - the day before Manning's bonus is due - assuming the obvious that Manning will be released, round 2 will also go to WAS.

Oh, and not only is SEA likely too far down for STL to want to trade back that far, they are also in the same division - not happening.

b&g_lady said:

BTW, I'm tracking and scoring 7 key RG3 trade milestones leading up to the draft. Milestone #1 was today - no franchise tag for Flynn = advantage WAS (over STL.) Two more days to milestone #2 - the day before Manning's bonus is due - assuming the obvious that Manning will be released, round 2 will also go to WAS.

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The Colts somehow re-signing Manning would really throw a monkey wrench in the works, leverage-wise.

So what are your other milestones? Inquiring, and slightly bored, minds want to know.

b&g_lady said:

Love the optimism. Fingers crossed. So do you think this deal goes down before the draft and if so, how soon? (Might be worth a poll of the board...)

BTW, I'm tracking and scoring 7 key RG3 trade milestones leading up to the draft. Milestone #1 was today - no franchise tag for Flynn = advantage WAS (over STL.) Two more days to milestone #2 - the day before Manning's bonus is due - assuming the obvious that Manning will be released, round 2 will also go to WAS.

Oh, and not only is SEA likely too far down for STL to want to trade back that far, they are also in the same division - not happening.

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To be clear, this is not me who has made these predicitons for several weeks. It has come from three insiders and they have been spot on thus far.

About Seattle - the Rams have no desire to help a division rival in any way. The only way a deal gets done with the Seahawks is if they are willing to do a Ditka - twice over. That's not happening.

As for when a deal gets done - no idea on that one. The dynamics of this draft, free agency, and the new scandal is unlike anything we have seen in pro football history. However, I will toss something out there for the fun of it. If the options for St. Louis continue to dwindle, the Redskins could sit until the third pick in the draft. If the Vikings have no offers that are attractive (the Redskins would have the advantage if a trade was made here though), then the Browns are on the clock. Could a trade with the Redskins be a possibility at that juncture? Don't rule it out is what I have heard. Stranger things have happened and there is no doubt in my mind that Coach Shanahan and GM Allen have a few tricks up their sleeves. They took last year's draft and turned into a huge haul of picks.

BB, are you suggesting a trade with the Vikings or the Browns? So you're saying we would play chicken, since we know the Rams won't draft RGIII, and neither would the Vikings? Seems... dangerous to me.

b&g_lady said:

Love the optimism. Fingers crossed. So do you think this deal goes down before the draft and if so, how soon? (Might be worth a poll of the board...)

BTW, I'm tracking and scoring 7 key RG3 trade milestones leading up to the draft. Milestone #1 was today - no franchise tag for Flynn = advantage WAS (over STL.) Two more days to milestone #2 - the day before Manning's bonus is due - assuming the obvious that Manning will be released, round 2 will also go to WAS.

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Not to nitpick, but that's only 2 milestones... (I'm interested in hearing the other 5).