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Thread: Our Man Moss

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    Default Our Man Moss

    I don't know if it's just me being a bit disappointed in general by our showing today, or there's something to it. Moss just isn't getting it done, nor will he IMO. The best receivers always seem to find a way to get separation, don't give up on routs, and don't lose their cool when they can't get it done early in the game.

    I think age and his size are killing him at this point, and with the slightest blip, and he's frustrated and useless for the most part. He doesn't seem to have the speed he had just two short years ago. If he's is as unproductive as he was today in next weeks game, put El on the bench and have Moss in the slot. I don't care who the #1 wide out is, as long as he's tall and fast, then take your pick at the #2 spot. Personally, I would put Marko Mitchell in as the # 2 guy.

    I may sound like I've given up after week one, but I haven't. I just don't want to wait till it's too late in the season to shake things up. Moss may look great in practice, but look who he's matched up against.......

    I was expecting more out of the O line, and it doesn't help the passing game when Jason doesn't have time to let plays develop, but I've soured on Moss at this point, and he'll have to a hell of a lot before I think he deserves the #1 spot on this team.
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    I understand your frustration - but I think Moss has looked more like the Moss of old this Summer than he's looked in awhile, and (although today it certainly wasn't in evidence), he's got some WR talent to take some of the pressure off him. I will be surprised if by the end of the season he hasn't had one of his best years.

    Of course, that's contingent on today not representing what we're going to see from our OL and starting QB.
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    I was surprised and shocked that Zorn did not come out looking for Kelly early and often to free Moss up some later. That is what I expected and would have done. Kelly would have seen a half dozen balls in the first half, if not the first quarter. In fact, this morning I would have bet you money that the first play from scrimmage would be a deep shot to Kelly. Really disappointed he wasn't used more today.

    And none of that tricky stuff with ARE either. All Jason Campbell.

    I don't think Zorn showed a lot of trust in Campbell with that early trick play and with a lot of the play calling. If Campbell has to show something to stay, put the ball in his hands and give him a shot to show something be it good, bad or indifferent.
    Last edited by Neophyte; 09-13-09 at 08:19 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I understand your frustration - but I think Moss has looked more like the Moss of old this Summer than he's looked in awhile, and (although today it certainly wasn't in evidence), he's got some WR talent to take some of the pressure off him. I will be surprised if by the end of the season he hasn't had one of his best years.

    Of course, that's contingent on today not representing what we're going to see from our OL and starting QB.
    Moss rounded out a couple routes and was kinda lazy on running plays but it was more poor play-calling and poor play by Campbell than anything Moss did or didn't do. I loved seeing his passion and getting into with Webster, though. Shows he still cares.

    On the bright side, playing the Giants in the opener will only make this team better over the next four weeks when the schedule should not be as tough.
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    Air Force

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    Next week will tell. If Moss goes nuts against the Rams, we'll know that the Gint secondary is probably that good. If he disappears again, I'm good for him being in the slot. Time catches everyone
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    I was surprised and shocked that Zorn did not come out looking for Kelly early and often to free Moss up some later. That is what I expected and would have done. Kelly would have seen a half dozen balls in the first half, if not the first quarter. In fact, this morning I would have bet you money that the first play from scrimmage would be a deep shot to Kelly. Really disappointed he wasn't used more today.

    And none of that tricky stuff with ARE either. All Jason Campbell.

    I don't think Zorn showed a lot of trust in Campbell with that early trick play and with a lot of the play calling. If Campbell has to show something to stay, put the ball in his hands and give him a shot to show something be it good, bad or indifferent.

    Jason cheesed out on several occasions - on that audible to a off-tackle run on a critical 3rd down he looked like someone who didn't want the pressure of having to make a play on his own. I couldn't believe he made that call. It doesn't matter what the coach calls if you are afraid to take chances.

    I'm watching Aaron Rogers tonight and thinking 'God - why can't we have a QB that plays with that kind of confidence and decisiveness?'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Next week will tell. If Moss goes nuts against the Rams, we'll know that the Gint secondary is probably that good. If he disappears again, I'm good for him being in the slot. Time catches everyone
    What's sad is the Giants secondary was missing two corners and we still couldn't take advantage of it.

    Jason holds this team back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Jason cheesed out on several occasions - on that audible to a off-tackle run on a critical 3rd down he looked like someone who didn't want the pressure of having to make a play on his own. I couldn't believe he made that call. It doesn't matter what the coach calls if you are afraid to take chances.
    I was pretty disappointed in that too but I am waiting till I both watch it again and until Zorn offers some sort of comment about it (assuming he does but I can't imagine that the press won't ask about it specifically).

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I'm watching Aaron Rogers tonight and thinking 'God - why can't we have a QB that plays with that kind of confidence and decisiveness?'
    You too? Damned depressing isn't it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    how about randle el getting almost 100?

    someone had to be doubling up on moss for randle to get so open.

    and cooley getting almost 75.

    maybe they schemed against him..maybe they planned around him. or maybe our 1300 yard WR just sucks.
    And for as much talk as the whole "Malcolm Kelly has JC's trust" was bandied about this preseason, JC didn't look at him much.

    In fact, he didn't look at anybody outside the hash marks that much.
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    Navy Salisbury

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    a fade to anybody would be nice right now......
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    Moss' M-O is quiet for a couple games, go off for a couple games. That's how he's always been. I expect a huge performance against St. Louis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Deadman View Post
    a fade to anybody would be nice right now......
    At this point, I just don't think Zorn has confidence in Campbell throwing the fade...although on one red zone series, Kelly ran an awful fade route. I think he might have been a decoy though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieselPwr44 View Post
    And for as much talk as the whole "Malcolm Kelly has JC's trust" was bandied about this preseason, JC didn't look at him much.

    In fact, he didn't look at anybody outside the hash marks that much.
    Yep. JC is right back to "Santana Lock" mode
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieselPwr44 View Post
    And for as much talk as the whole "Malcolm Kelly has JC's trust" was bandied about this preseason, JC didn't look at him much.

    In fact, he didn't look at anybody outside the hash marks that much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Yep. JC is right back to "Santana Lock" mode
    Whatever mode it is, I just don't see him being able to lead this team in a crunch. Oh yes, anyone can have a good day once in a while, but, dear lord, how long have it been said.........he just hasn't had a chance....give him a chance.......he needs to learn...etc.

    I am just disgusted with it right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie View Post
    Whatever mode it is, I just don't see him being able to lead this team in a crunch. Oh yes, anyone can have a good day once in a while, but, dear lord, how long have it been said.........he just hasn't had a chance....give him a chance.......he needs to learn...etc.

    I am just disgusted with it right now.

    Same here. He'll be a good number 2 somewhere, but it's time to move on. Wonder who Cowher will bring in?
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    Until another WR steps up as a legit threat teams will roll coverage and try to take Moss out the game. Campbell needs to look at Thomas and Kelly more. Teams know that Campbell looks at Moss, ARE, and Cooley so if control them you can stop this offense.
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    I was just sifting through the game again and looking at some plays that caught my eye and am wondering if anybody else is concerned about the way Moss handled himself in that skirmish w/ Webster?

    It is a little disheartening to me to see our #1 receiver get into it in the first place, but I understand the intensity of competition at times. What was discouraging to say the least is that Webster went to the sideline, had a talk with Coughlin, shook his head in agreement w/ coach and went on about his business.

    On the other side they showed Moss in the faces of some younger players trying to justify what he had done. That doesn't bode well for what a seasoned Vet should be trying to do. If I were a rookie and had just seen a veteran like Moss get manhandled and come off trying to justify those actions I would lose some respect for him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by riggins44 View Post
    Until another WR steps up as a legit threat teams will roll coverage and try to take Moss out the game.
    This was my initial reaction too. I think it speaks to the lack of respect the Giants had for Kelly. We'll have to get Kelly more involved, and quickly, or else it's going to be tough sledding for Moss.
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    Indiana

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    I'm not rtrying to excuse Moss's feistiness during the scuffle-but something occurred to me. One of the problems being continually brought up is the centering of attention on Moss as THE go-to receiver, it's almost as though nobody else is out there who can catch the dang football. Defenses are very aware of this and are smothering Moss all the time with coverage-it's getting very hard for him to get open, which regardless of skill level does two things 1.) drops his numbers and apparent effectiveness and 2.) has got to frustrate the living crap out of him as a receiver. Continuing chronic frustration affects everything you do no matter how hard you try to-or claim to-be able to redirect or "handle" it. If his temper flared I, for one, have to attribute at least a little bit of it to the frustration stemming from what must be a feeling of "the team's depending on me but not giving me any help"-meaning-alternate targets. Throwing the ball around some will spread the secondary so they can't radar in on Moss every time and get gim some better chances at getting open. This, I believe, will not only improve his performance but his confidence in both himself and the whole passing scheme-thus alleviating what I see as otherwise guaranteed frustration.
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    Serv, I understand your point. It has to be frustrating all around if he isn't given the opportunities and is being stifled by double and triple coverage. There is nothing wrong with being angry. My problem lies in how it was handled.

    Tom Coughlin walked directly over to Webster and let him know in a very respectful way the he can't do what he had just done. You can't lose your head.

    On the other side, I did not see Zorn approach Moss this way nor did I see Moss sit quietly and ponder his mistake. And it was a mistake. Instead it appeared he was justifying actions that in my estimation are unacceptable.

    I have heard it called a "medium" approach. I don't buy it. I think it is soft and the lack of discipline showed on the field.
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    I agree with you, Elephant, it was handled poorly. Like I said, I was only trying to explain at least one of the possible causes for the outburst-this was, unless I'm mistakes, fairly out-of character for Moss, he's intense and maybe a bit overly verbal at times but I wasn't aware of anything indicating this as typical behavior.

    And yes, one thing I'm really questioning now is Zorn's leadership skills-granted he was put in an unaccustomed position from the get-go-but his approach is seeming less "low key" and more, well, frankly, weak and lacking leadership. I'm not sensing that he's in control of the team. I saw what seemed like near-indifference to the incident in his response and I'm not comfortable with that. I have no confidence whatsoever in hyper-in-your-face emotional outburt coaches-I despise most I've ever seen do that-but Zorn seems at the opposite extreme.

    Sorry about straying a little off-topic but the handling of the incident does relate-as in; Do you want this kind of thing to become a regular feature? I would think not.
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