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Shanahan Needs To Stand Now On Own Two Feet

I frankly don't understand this thread. Seems to me that Shanny made some good moves, and some awful moves last year. This year, fairly conclusive that his moves have improved quite a bit. Anticipating a repeat of this year's draft is probably too much to ask for, but if the draft nets us another 4-5 contributors, how can you argue against him?

Yes, he made mistakes in year one. Thankfully, none of us are his boss and fired him for making a mistake. Come to think of it, thankfully none of you are my boss, cause I would have been fired years ago. McNabb needs to be factored into evaluations; but some of you seem to more heavily judge McNabb, while ignoring the bounty of picks he got us while choosing to ignore Gabbert. That was a GREAT move.
 
couldn't disagree more.

1) Shanallen tubed the first year with a whole bunch of bad personnel decisions. there is no way around that FACT. He is totally accountable for the single most destructive/unproductive aspect of this team: QUARTERBACK. your bandaid completely sidesteps this little accountability matter.

Well, I said it at the time and I still believe it - McNabb was an acceptable gamble to me. I think we got fleeced on the price, as there was no market fro Donovan, however I like(d) bringing him in. It didn't work - some say they saw it coming, and that they always knew McNabb was terrible - but you also know what they say about broken clocks...

Bottom line - if Shanahan was confident enough to believe McNabb could run this team, so am I. I think it came down to arrogance on Donovan's part AND Kyle's part - both needed to make concessions to fit their talents to the other, and neither did.

2) So what if 9 players made the roster. Your only argument is also a who cares: it's based on the notion that we haven't had that many players in previous drafts make the roster. This is an old statistical canard - measure progress by setting the baseline rediculously low. moreover....it avoids what really matters...performance. It just throws out some subjective assertions with no proof whatsoever. moroeover, if you think about it, with the exception of Kerrigan...there isn't even enough data to support any performance assertions.

So what? So what!? That's an amazing stat to me - the draft has been proven over and over again as the way to building a successful franchise (Steelers, Patriots, Colts, Ravens, etc.), yet here we are with evidence that the Redskins have eschewed/botched the draft for many years. Now we are USING the draft to the tune of 12 players, and you don't think that alone is a successful step in the right direction?

3) Some rejoinders

- no one other than the previously mentioned Kerrigan has played enough to establish a baseline for judging "good"..."promising"...etc. how many flash in the pans have we seen over the years? lots. as you all are fond of pointing out - you have to give a draft class 2-3 years before applying a label.

Well, it should be noted I said "contributed significantly." I did not specify good, great, hall of fame, etc. This is really the key - great teams have not only the superstars, but also the cogs and widgets that make the machine go. The flash-in-the-pan theory is very true with this team, however also supports the 'wait-and-see' line of thinking also. How do we know if they are flashes in the pan until next season?

- you sidestep some other questionable decisions: TW for example. again...accountability. Shananhan has to be judged on all the evidence.

Most Redskins fans (I'd bet around 80-90%) wanted us to draft OL, Tackle specifically. Shanahan did this - to the satisfaction of the majority of Redskins fans. Has Williams been a miss? I don't know, the jury is still out for me. The other option was Okung, who's shown flashes but can't stay on the field. Williams is a strong run blocker, but needs work on his pass-blocking...not writing him off yet (the weed issue is another matter, we'll see about that).

- the actual record and stats belie any qualitative assertions about performance

Detroit went 8-24 the past two seasons. Record is meaningless in talent evaluation.

-these guys can't friggin stay healthy

See above for Okung, Russel. That's not a problem for just our draft picks...the Giants first 3 picks this year were injured at some point. Their 9th overall CB Akumura was benched also.

I fall in line with those who argue that Shanahan...after totally misjudging the talent on hand when he arrived.....has successfully adjusted by changing THE STRATEGY. there's simply no way to assess the success/quality of the 2011 draft class: not enough time on the field, too many personnel changes, too many injuries, pretty bad stats overall (which can be attributed somewhat to all the change - i.e., there was never a stable set of starters to forge into a "team").

The jury is still out on Shanahan. IMO...to belabor the obvious...if he fails in fixing the QB situation...going into his 3rd season.....his overall legacy will be a failure.

Okay, so we agree. :)
 
I frankly don't understand this thread. Seems to me that Shanny made some good moves, and some awful moves last year. This year, fairly conclusive that his moves have improved quite a bit. Anticipating a repeat of this year's draft is probably too much to ask for, but if the draft nets us another 4-5 contributors, how can you argue against him?

Yes, he made mistakes in year one. Thankfully, none of us are his boss and fired him for making a mistake. Come to think of it, thankfully none of you are my boss, cause I would have been fired years ago. McNabb needs to be factored into evaluations; but some of you seem to more heavily judge McNabb, while ignoring the bounty of picks he got us while choosing to ignore Gabbert. That was a GREAT move.

Exactly! Well said.
 
I frankly don't understand this thread.
It does appear that you have missed the point which was about Shanny (and his strongest supporters) owning up to his mistakes in 2010 and not using Vinny as a scapegoat.
 
not what I have argued Lanky.

I stated that Shanahan's change in STRATEGY - restoring youth and athleticism is..IMO....his best decision. The thread is couched in the wider context of roster management....and in that regard has two components: what he did with the draft and what he did otherwise.

1) draft

- he drafted 6 in 2010 after worsening the situation by trading away high picks; that draft is suspect....WIlliams? maybe. Riley? maybe...doesn't cover in space very well. not distinguished as a blitzer. good tackler/run defender. otherwise? capers? austin? cook? morris?

- 2011 draft:I have made my argument. there's only enough data to support one assessment...Kerrigan. everything else is an unknown. what matters is not how many. what matters is sustained performance.

2) non-draft personnel moves

- very spotty IMO. others have listed the the sizable totals from the first year.

- I'm focused on his total screw-ups with tyhe one position that matters most...QB.

So....I think we agree that the change in strategy vis populating the roster was the right thing to do after recognizing his initial hose up in assessing talent. but ascribing success/failure is way premature IMO......lesser teams have achieved quicker turn-arounds in the same time frame.... 6-10/5-11 (expected) to me is not symbolic of a successful strategy. why? already noted -> he screwed up the first year nad now has to make up lost ground.

btw...record is not meaningless in talent evaluation. in fact...it is the ultimate arbiter. the whole purpose of EVERY team is winning. we are seeing a worse record with what you claim is an infusion of better talent. are you claiming that if we draft 6-9 every year who make the active roster but the record continues to fall in a 6-10/9-7 and no playoffs range (let's say for 6 years) that this is irrelevant to assessing whether the drafts have successfully turned over the talent?
 
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Well, I said it at the time and I still believe it - McNabb was an acceptable gamble to me...
So, you figured that a 34 year-old QB should be the first piece needed to fix the "scorched-earth roster" Shanny inherited from Vinny?

Would you explain that further?
 
It does appear that you have missed the point which was about Shanny (and his strongest supporters) owning up to his mistakes in 2010 and not using Vinny as a scapegoat.

I will kindly request you go back to my post where I acknowledged that in hindsight, McNabb was absolutely a mistake. Aside from that, not sure what you are looking for here? Do you think it is reasonable to expect Shanny to come out and hold a press conference detailing line item by line item what mistakes he has made? I don't ever see that happening, with any coach. Sorry. Shanny pretty much acknowledged it was a mistake by benching him, and then fleecing the Vikings for a 6th round pick. What more, exactly, are you looking for from him?

As I said, he misjudged the talent, thought he could win now, and failed. Considering he rectified his mistakes pretty quickly, to the point of getting more picks in one draft than we have had in three draft combined most years, I think he is making pretty nice progress.

My point is that the McNabb mistake should not outweigh the Kerrigan bounty.
 
So, you figured that a 34 year-old QB should be the first piece needed to fix the "scorched-earth roster" Shanny inherited from Vinny?

Would you explain that further?

I thought McNabb would do well as a placeholder for 2-3 years in DC while Shanahan drafted & groomed his QB of the future. I did not see it as a "win-now" or "this roster is fine, just needs a QB" type of move - I saw it as bringing in a mobile QB with (before 2010, apparently) an accurate deep ball that would fit the offense.

I think Shanahan came in and originally thought he could rebuild on the fly, while still keeping the roster competitive. Well, if McNabb had panned out here, this would have been the case. I still think McNabb just might have succeeded here with Helu in the backfield.
 
I deny it.:anonymous:

Thanks, Amigo.


so...the QB only contributes 12% to a team's offensive success....eh?!!!!!

man o man...I remember some of your pot stirring! glad you're here to liven things up!!!
 
so...the QB only contributes 12% to a team's offensive success....eh?!!!!!

man o man...I remember some of your pot stirring! glad you're here to liven things up!!!

Just what this board needs, another pot stirrer! :nana:

Welcome, Oldfan!
 
I thought McNabb would do well as a placeholder for 2-3 years in DC while Shanahan drafted & groomed his QB of the future. I did not see it as a "win-now" or "this roster is fine, just needs a QB" type of move - I saw it as bringing in a mobile QB with (before 2010, apparently) an accurate deep ball that would fit the offense.

I think Shanahan came in and originally thought he could rebuild on the fly, while still keeping the roster competitive. Well, if McNabb had panned out here, this would have been the case. I still think McNabb just might have succeeded here with Helu in the backfield.


I fell in positively for McNabb as well.....simply because I had grown frustrated with years of horrific QB play. didn't really stop to consider whether McNabb really fit the KS system. nevertheless...that was me......the mistake was made by Shanahan in not seeing an over-ther-hill QB for waht he was.
 
how many people thought that McNabb would be as bad as he would? he had a pretty good year the year before in Philthy so I think it was safe to assume he would be better than what we had.
In Philly, McNabb ran a scheme customized for him by Andy Reid who built a big play offense around young Donovan's legs and his ability to extend plays and throw deep.

McNabb doesn't fit anyone else's scheme. Offensive coordinators don't create schemes for QBs who are inconsistent on short and medium range throws.

Shanny knew or should have known that Donovan would not fit his offense. The only possible reason I can offer is that Mike thought he could fix the mechanical problems that caused McNabb's inconsistency.

What McNabb gave us... lots of big plays, lots of yardage, lots of three and outs, poor red zone conversion... was exactly the same performance he gave Andy Reid over the last couple of seasons in Philly. However, in Philly, he had more weapons to work with.
 
a warm glass of milk and murder she wrote does the same thing for ya, right? :moon:

man....can't get no respect!

hey...we'll get the Iggles game over with and then move into positive mode again as hope and potential once again become our off-season best friends. this time...the optimism...IMO....will be well placed.
 
...He was tailored around Andy Reid's scheme but thats what we should have done here...
We can't agree on that, Mike. Building a big play offense around a 34 year-old QB with diminishing skills isn't a good idea.

I like the passing scheme we have. Even with Rex running it, I see its potential. We just need more talent on offense.
 
Actually, what this thread is about is Shanahan's recent comments in the WP and other places where he is starting to lay out the crumbs of excuses as to how hard things were in arriving here and taking over the situation at hand.

Up until now we haven't seen Shanahan open up and emote about much, whether it's the Haynesworth or McNabb situations, the John Beck experiment, the failure of certain players on the roster to sport any kind of personal accountability (Davis and Williams) - but we NOW are seeing is Shanahan building a public case for 'WOE IS ME'.

And that 'WOE IS ME' is a first shot across the bow at those that are going to start criticizing him in a few weeks when the season is over for having as poor a record as we end 2011 as Zorn left with in 2009 :)

Coaches as much as politicians love to write some mild revisions or 'amplifications' to the history to make themselves look more heroic, responsible, active, confident, decisive, etc.

Shanahan is no different.

I was merely calling him on it now that we are seeing that white smoke coming out of the top of the building at Redskins Park :D
 
Actually, what this thread is about is Shanahan's recent comments in the WP and other places where he is starting to lay out the crumbs of excuses as to how hard things were in arriving here and taking over the situation at hand.

But the thing is, he is not wrong. :)
 

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