A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1

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    Indiana

    Default After a QB...then what?

    I thought I'd start a thread to complement the "QBs in the 2012 draft " thread to open a discussion of the other holes the Redskins have that need filling. I'm going to leave this pretty open-ended in terms of what positions need to be filled, which players need to be replaced, and who in particular might be out there in the 2012 draft and/or available as free agents.

    I seems likely that somewhere in the off-season the Redskins are very likely to grab a QB. That's being covered in the other thread. Even if we give up some picks in order to trade-up to get RG3, for example, we will still have picks left to fill other team needs so the question is this; What positions are in your opinion or judgement in most dire need of being filled? Are there particular prospective draft pics you may have in mind for these needs? What players do we have that should be traded and have their position filled by a new fresh body-or not so fresh if you're thinking a possible FA pick-up.

    The first question to me would seem to be which positions have the highest priority as far as "we gotta get somebody else in here?" Just to throw out an example I'd say RT and CB-Brown is a liability IMO and Hall is also. We may need to replace Landry, and we could use another WR. I'm just throwing out a couple of ideas but like I said this is pretty open-ended.

    Basically where do we go besides QB?

    Have at it.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

  2. #2
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    Army

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    QB#1 CB#2 OL everything else
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    James Madison

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    I think we'll bring in some bodies to compete on the OLine, the right side specifically. Wouldn't shock me if we took a long look at all positions on the line given TW's suspension. On offense, this must be our highest priority. On D, we need some secondary help as has been mentioned. Unless there is a CB available in FA that can take his spot, I expect to see DHall back next year.
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  4. #4
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    Air Force

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    The Oline. CB. WR
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    Formerly known as ...............Sarge

  5. #5
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    Army

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    The Oline. CB. WR
    I actually was one of those people that was down on our receivers most of the year, but I have been seeing a whole lot of growth and promise the last few weeks. Call me crazy, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get a WR unless one came up in FA that we could get a steal on.
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    It's ok, I don't like you either.

  6. #6
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    Florida State

    Default

    I would add to what has been said is we definitely need some depth at ILB, maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder.

    Edit:

    Free Agents:
    QB - Matt Flynn, Drew Brees
    WR - Dwayne Bowe?
    TE - Fred Davis, JeMarcus Finley(Probably too expensive)
    O-Line - (G) Ben Grubbs, Carl Nicks
    (T) Not sure there is a tackle out there worth bringing in...

    NT - Aubrayo Franklin was asking too much money last year, playing in a scheme that doesn't suit him in NO, he could come cheap. Paul Soliai

    LB - D'Qwell Jackson(Can he play ILB?)
    CB - Carlos Rogers? , Brent Grimes would be a definite upgrade over D-Hall, just not sure if he is a definite #1
    Last edited by Elephant; 12-25-11 at 11:44 PM.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  7. #7
    NFL Pickem Champion 2017 BGO Ballers Champion 2018
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    High Point

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    My take on the Redskins needs, other than the obvious of QB.

    OL - Any position can be upgraded, plus they lack depth, even though we have seen some bright spots the last 2drive weeks.
    CB
    Safety
    WR - Need a big play guys. Too many #2 and #3 guys, and that might be a stretch
    ILB
    DL

    Picking where the Redskins will pick, you probably won't take an OL. Normally, only stud tackles go that high. I'd take the best player available out of WR, DB, and ILB. If there is a stud OL, take him.
    In the 2nd round, I'd really look at the interior OL first. Then a tackle, then DB or WR depending on who is available and how you rate them.

    With several needs, it gives the redskins the opprtunity to pick the best player and know they can fit into the team. The only positions they don't need to draft are RB and OLB. Sure, they can go for those guys in rounds 6 and 7, since that's a big crap shoot. But they can really pick at any other positions and upgrade or at least bring in young talent.
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  8. #8

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    Indiana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    I would add to what has been said is we definitely need some depth at ILB, maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder.

    Edit:

    Free Agents:
    QB - Matt Flynn, Drew Brees
    WR - Dwayne Bowe?
    TE - Fred Davis, JeMarcus Finley(Probably too expensive)
    O-Line - (G) Ben Grubbs, Carl Nicks
    (T) Not sure there is a tackle out there worth bringing in...

    NT - Aubrayo Franklin was asking too much money last year, playing in a scheme that doesn't suit him in NO, he could come cheap. Paul Soliai

    LB - D'Qwell Jackson(Can he play ILB?)
    CB - Carlos Rogers? , Brent Grimes would be a definite upgrade over D-Hall, just not sure if he is a definite #1
    El, about Jermichael Finley, everybody on the Packers site I visit is seriously pissed at Finley. He's had way too many drops, doesn't seem to be exerting as much effort as would be expected from someone with the hype that's been surrounding him-or at least has been inconsistent in his effort, has at times seemed to develop a "DeAngelo Hall" mouth and frankly the fans there mostly don't seem to be very concerned about him being picked up in free agency by somebody else. These kinds of things pop a red flag up in my head as far as picking him up. He might be all right but I'd be on the careful side especially if there's a bidding war over him.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

  9. #9

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    Virginia

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    Watch carefully what we do in FA. That may dictate what we do in the draft. Then again, Coach Shanahan and GM Allen are a sneaky pair and do things in an unorthodox way on occasion. It should be a fun offseason.
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  10. #10

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    Default

    what assumptions are we making?

    Possible:

    1) two teams ahead of us in the draft need QBs

    2) only two QBs warrant top 10 selection (maybe even top 32)

    3) RGIII opts for the draft; Jones, Barkley stay in school. if RGIII stays in school....I'm thinking QB is a lost cause over the next year: we pack our bags and wait for the next draft.

    4) No real FA second team QBs. Flynn? Sorry El...you're gonna burn big bucks (the Packers FO aren't idiots) for a guy who has had ONE good game? Brees is gonna stay where he is.

    Options:

    a) trade the farm to get ahead of Cleveland to land one of the top two QBs. can the talent poor Redskins afford this or are we yet one year off and need to continue rebuilding the foundation? a trade for RGIII or Luck is likely to cost 2-3 number ones and some nice candy in the upcoming draft. too much? perhaps the Rams will trade Bradford? I'd do that in a heartbeat. Problem is...the Rams won't!

    b) draft the HUGELY uncertain Tannehill and keep our fingers crossed for the 3 years it'll take to find out if we drafted a bust or at least an improvement to Rex? meanwhile...the pressure on Shanahan to win now mounts as his contract concludes.

    c) sign a FA QB. who? and you get back to point a....at what cost?

    Conclusions:

    1) I don't know the FO's value scheme so they just might trade the farm if they think RGIII or Luck is the real deal. There have been leaks that the Skins made some bona fide efforts to trade up IOT land Bradford two years ago. so who knows. that said...2-3 number ones + several other picks (some high)? were the Skins closer to having a wide talent base I'd think go for it. but they don't. one example: receivers...we have no game breakers any defensive coordinator has to break a sweat over. heck...for example...our vaunted TE corps may actually be over-estimated if one accepts that Cooley's injuries are an established pattern for his age and that Davis has smoked himself off the roster. Paulson? bahhhh. good player. deserves to be on the roster. is he a threat? no...not in the grand scheme of things. safety? what's been the weakest part of the secondary all season? injuries or not...it's been the safety position. Would I trade the farm for RGIII? nope. I'd continue to restock the talent under the mis-guided notion that my scheme and coaching can over-come the disaster always waiting to happen that is Rex Grossman (RGI). I'd be thinking with more talent on the o-line and a maturing running game with top 15 defense play I can get to 9-7...maybe...just maybe....10-6. and that gets me in the playoffs. I then sacrifice my next two drafts for my franchise QB.

    2) The Skins are boxed in. Their core problem is a lack of talent. They'll have a good draft position to maneuver from to really stock up on quality athletes at multiple positions. Much as I detest RGI.....the value function for me says don't sell the farm and thereby disrupt the talent base rebuild that is underway.

    - draft a stellar wideout

    - draft a stellar cornerback

    - look for a FA QB (if this can be done cheaply) to play the "anyone but Rex" role

    - draft O-line depth starting in round three

    - find in the draft or FA a lightening fast/quick ILB to really escalate the pass rush. find a "diamond in the rough" to start grooming London's replacement

    - draft a QB in the lower rounds everyone knows is a long shot but will at least keep the fans who believe in the "all outcomes are equally probable" theory of QB drafting happy. following this theory...the Skins could actually save some money by not allocating many resources to QB scouting since it's all just a crap shoot. efficiency!

    Much as I think a QB is what is needed most, I just don't think we are at a stage where the team could recover from the huge cost any quality player would demand. but...as others have noted...except in the area of QBs... :-) ... this FO has recently demonstrated some dexterity in how it has managed the roster. so maybe they have something up their sleeves we don't know about.

    too bad the first year under Shanallen was such a MASSIVE waste. not all their fault as Vinny/Dan had dug such a deep, deep, deep, deep hole. nevertheless....we could be in a better position this year to make a QB play had not so many talent evaluation mistakes been made that first year.
    Last edited by fansince62; 12-26-11 at 10:09 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Florida State

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    Yeah serv, I was reaching at Finley just trying to raise the fact that we are no longer set at the TE position. Like a backup ILB, a solid TE can be had in the 3rd or 4th round. I think fansince is spot on, but I still think if the price is right we go after Flynn (The kid won a National Championship with a lesser talented LSU squad a few years back so it's not just one game ). I am not talking about Drew Brees more like Rex Grossman money. I was joking about Brees, I think we are fully aware that Brees is going to end his career with Payton in NO.

    We still need a bona fide NT, Cofield has been serviceable all season but we need someone like the guy in San Diego Garay or Pouha with the Jets, but but someone like Soliai who didn't have a stellar season in Miami but is still a solid NT could come cheaper. Is the slide by Aubrayo Franklin because of the scheme in NO, we all know about the lack of stats by tackles in Williams' scheme, he could be a cheap signing but he is getting up therein age.

    As for CB in the draft, are either Dre Kirkpatrick or Morris Claiborne worth a look at the draft position we have?
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  12. #12
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    Default

    Brown simply can't physically hold up for 16 games. That has been proven the past 2 seasons and coming back at 31 I don't see him as a good bet going forward at RT.

    Looking at the team overall I would say that offense needs to be the focus, with some exceptions in case a CB or depth ILB/DE comes available.

    My list:

    1. QB
    2. Playmaking #1 wide receiver
    3. OG and OT
    4. CB
    5. SS and FS

    The continual injuries on the OL and at the safety positions mandates that the Redskins bring in new players here. You simply can't go into another season where the plan is for Reed Doughty to be a special teams performer and extra safety, and he ends up starting half the games in the backfield with limited skills.

    OL as indicated is the same. Brown has been hurt both seasons he has been here. Lichtensteiger is coming off a serious injury. Trent Williams has failed to play 16 games in either season since being drafted.

    A bigger, stronger, more physical center might be a nice addition as well

    Cornerback. Hall is a decent player. He is just not a lockdown cover corner who deserves #1 money. He would be a very good #2 corner next to a player of Revis type ability.

    Wilson is a player the team likes and he's fine if the team finds a #1 corner.

    The backups? These need to change. Barnes has been here 3 years and hasn't shown us much. Westbrook has been here 4 years and still can't get on the field in the regular defense.

    We need more talented younger depth to develop. That has to come through the draft.

    Philip Buchanon should be gone. Another guy at 31 with off season recreational drug issues (allegedly).........You have to question a guy's judgment when he is that age.

    He left the team in the lurch in the backfield in 2011 and was only average as the #3 last year.
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  13. #13
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    Default

    I think Shanahan is moving up for Luck! Expect another aggressive Free Agent period and they'll offer the farm for the #1 pick. I think Shanny would trade for Bradford if the Rams did draft Luck but his plan A is Luck himself.
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    Default

    After QB, the Skins biggest needs imo are a true #1 WR, RT, LG, S, CB

    I think the Skins will look for a WR in free agency.
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    UTEP

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    I have always been bullish on flynn I think we should sign him no matter what, even if we draft a qb. however if we are unable to get a first rounder, I say draft best available Olineman, and in the second round target tannehill, as a developmental qb, then grab a corner then a NT and then all Olinemen for depth. everything else we can get by at or maybe use free agency for. anyone who has watched this season and doesnt advocate serious Oline upgrading
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    Florida State

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    If we draft another safety or corner in the first round, that noise you'll hear??? Yeah. That will be me going absolutely postal all the way from Florida.
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  17. #17
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    Default

    I wouldn't be surprised to see the FO agressive in FA, especially along the O-Line. Should that happen, I think we sell the farm (or at least try to) in order to land Luck.

    With the remainder of our picks, I think the secondary will be addressed as well as a Center.
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  18. #18

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    Florida Atlantic

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    Again, not saying the OLine couldn't use an upgrade, but a good QB will make them look much better. Target some late-round OLinemen (aka the Shanahan way) and use early picks on a QB and CB.
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  19. #19

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    Indiana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised to see the FO agressive in FA, especially along the O-Line. Should that happen, I think we sell the farm (or at least try to) in order to land Luck.

    With the remainder of our picks, I think the secondary will be addressed as well as a Center.
    Your idea of using FA for the OLine intrigued me, Jimbo, so I did some digging and found a list of OL FAs in 2012 on the Football's Future site. They have a brief blurb about the ones they consider among the "better" FA prospects as well as a list of the rest that will be FA-actually they do this for about every position.

    http://www.footballsfuture.com/2012/fa/ol.html
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

  20. #20

    Vescere bracis meis

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    VCU

    Default

    I think, like a lot of you, that after QB we need to look to CB and maybe ILB. QB has to be top of the list though.

    As for the O-line I’m undecided as to how I think we should go here. I think in general play has improved over last season, but that’s not saying a whole lot. If you just look at the raw stats we’re in the bottom half of the league in sacks given up. Take away the 12 sack game at Buffalo where Beck didn’t seem to want to get rid of the damn football and we are squarely in the middle of the pack.

    Williams is a knucklehead but he’s a solid run blocker. He and Lictensteiger were becoming a nice combo on the left side before Corey blow out his knee and Williams had the high ankle sprain (and later the weed issue). Honestly the five guys we have starting now are capable. None of them are dominant but they seem to play well together. I doubt we do much here at all. I look for us to add some developmental depth late in the draft and call it a day.

    If we were to land Nicks in free agency (who will likely be available) you aren’t going to hear me crying. That guy is dominant.
    Last edited by Hog Fever; 12-27-11 at 03:28 PM.
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