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Official Game Thread Redskins @ Giants

Boone, I hear what you're saying, and understand your perspective that losing is better for the franchise. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I'm not sure I don't either. But it is incredibly frustrating and disheartening to see fans unhappy that we beat a division rival.

Had we lost, I would understand that loss being mitigated by the knowledge that our draft position improved; but I do not understand actively rooting for the team to lose, to the point where the coaches are supposed to throw the game, and teach our rookies and young players to lose. I don't see how a win against a division rival is a bad thing.
 
I can't speak to that - I don't feel that way. I enjoyed the win. I didn't 'root' for the Redskins to lose. I can still intellectually state I believe the win (and more wins this season) might well result in the guy we really need at QB not being available to us in the draft. It's really not all that complicated.

A win against a division rival - when it won't get us to the playoffs - but may contribute to fewer options in the draft, can easily not be a good thing. Whether or not the emotional reward of a win trumps that, that's where folks are differing.
 
OK, granting you all that, serious question here. Are you advocating Shanny throwing the game? Coaching the players to lose?

I agree completely that the emotional win for the players and fan isn't worth the (potential) loss in draft status. However, my argument is that learning to win, and subsequently winning, for the youngin's, is incredibly important. And will pay serious dividends down the road.

And I'm sorry about implying you were rooting for the team to lose. Obviously not the case, and not my intent.
 
No problem Goal :cheers:

No - I think what all fans have to just accept (no matter whether you think winning at this point in a doomed season is positive reinforcement and good for the soul of the team, or just a waste of effort that'll ultimately set us back) that short of trying to lose, it 'is what it is'. I don't think any of us would endorse intentionally throwing games - not one person. So if we accept that, all we can do is watch the rest of the season play out and see where we are when it's over.

I do think, as Canadien Hog and others have articulated, that there's a benefit to being a 'really bad' team, that those horrendous teams are rewarded and that the only hope for really bad franchises are those potentially fortune-changing top draft spots. I also think we will always be one of those teams that's always just good enough not to ever achieve that reward for true awfulness.
 
I think we've hit that low before. And recently. The 4th overall pick two years meant we were a pretty Godawful team, right? Just because we didn't draft a QB with that pick doesn't mean we didn't enjoy the benefits of a high(see what I did there?) draft pick.
 
Good point by the folks on 980 after the game.

The best organizations find quaterbacks to lead them and a number of them didn't have a top 5 pick.

While I would prefer the Redskins to have the #2 or #3 pick to ensure there is an easy choice, the reality is that the Saints (Brees), Patriots (Brady), Steelers (Roethlisberger), Packers (Rodgers)..........ALL of these players were selected outside of the top 10.

Roethlisberger was the closest at #11 overall.

But these clubs found a capable passer without having to go 1-15 or 2-14.

Let's admit that if the front office knows what it is doing, the team should be able to find a quarterback picking around #8-10 in Round 1 and in the rounds after that.

The win was especially nice considering the Giants trash-talking during what has been a season of mediocrity for them.
 
As it stands, I believe we only dropped to the 6 spot. Damn those Cardinals! It doesn't matter though because we are going to win the next 2 games and finish 7-9.
 
I can't speak to that - I don't feel that way. I enjoyed the win. I didn't 'root' for the Redskins to lose. I can still intellectually state I believe the win (and more wins this season) might well result in the guy we really need at QB not being available to us in the draft. It's really not all that complicated.

A win against a division rival - when it won't get us to the playoffs - but may contribute to fewer options in the draft, can easily not be a good thing. Whether or not the emotional reward of a win trumps that, that's where folks are differing.

Since I love talking in circles :) let me just throw out that we all shouldn't confuse cause and effect. If this team builds momentum and wins games at the end of the season with their rookies in key positions, that is because the team is drafting well, and that IS a good thing. That's a better thing than a team tanking at the end of the season because the rookies can't step up ... a team with a front office that can't draft, and a team for which that draft position is meaningless. Even with 'can't-miss' players on the board.

I am much happier knowing our front office can find players that are comfortable with our system and are clearly improving as they learn it. That's more important to me than the potential of one draftee we might get in the offseason.

Good grief, we haven't played a team with a losing record in five weeks and look at our last five games. This team is figuring it out. The rookies are playing better than the vets they've replaced. We're starting to put points on the board consistently, against all comers. How can someone see that and be bummed?

As I said in that other thread. If this team finishes strong and loses a few spots in the draft, we will trade up to get our guy, and it will be ok because the team around him is ahead of schedule. It's better than a team that would need those picks we'd use in the trade. It's better than sucking and not trading to move up because we already know that the guys we've got are halfway there, instead of hoping whomever we get in upcoming drafts will be any good.

Bottom line is drafts are there to help us improve, and if our 2011 draft has improved us that's a good thing. It's not a bad thing because we want the 2012 draft to improve us. With a front office that can draft as well as ours just did, based on the way our rookies are now playing, that improvement will happen regardless.
 
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Let's admit that if the front office knows what it is doing, the team should be able to find a quarterback picking around #8-10 in Round 1 and in the rounds after that.

because they have done such a fine job finding a QB the last two seasons?

and your comment is somewhat off target....I'm sure the 980 analysis DID NOT consider all the riff raff these teams went through on their way to finding that winning lottery ticket. in short...it's not a strategy....
 
because they have done such a fine job finding a QB the last two seasons?

and your comment is somewhat off target....I'm sure the 980 analysis DID NOT consider all the riff raff these teams went through on their way to finding that winning lottery ticket. in short...it's not a strategy....

Losing a ton of games to draft high isn't a strategy either.

And if our front office can't pick a QB then where does it matter where we pick in the draft? Why would you trust them to pick one?
 
because they have done such a fine job finding a QB the last two seasons?

and your comment is somewhat off target....I'm sure the 980 analysis DID NOT consider all the riff raff these teams went through on their way to finding that winning lottery ticket. in short...it's not a strategy....

No one is denying they have whiffed big time at the QB spot. But given that we started two rookies, one undrafted, on the OLine today and they acquitted themselves well, I'm thinking we may have a reasonably good FO at evaluating talent. Fortunately, we paid nothing for Beck or Rex, except time. And if they had signed Hasselbeck, for instance, wouldn't we have been good enough to be right back where Boone was talking about, mediocrity?

In some respects, Reck was bad enough to keep us in the running for a high draft pick, but good enough to help develop the kids.
 
No one is denying they have whiffed big time at the QB spot. But given that we started two rookies, one undrafted, on the OLine today and they acquitted themselves well, I'm thinking we may have a reasonably good FO at evaluating talent. Fortunately, we paid nothing for Beck or Rex, except time. And if they had signed Hasselbeck, for instance, wouldn't we have been good enough to be right back where Boone was talking about, mediocrity?

In some respects, Reck was bad enough to keep us in the running for a high draft pick, but good enough to help develop the kids.


not arguing that Goal. I watched the entire game today.....even though I can't stand watching Grossman (he takes all the joy out of the game for me). I had a hard time watching the RT, but Smith held his own when I focused in on him. so I agree...we're somewhere between good bench strength and a starter. we won't know for a while. in fact....we won't know anything until we find at least one dominant WR and a QB who doesn't have pronounced flaws vis how good this team can be. what I like about these rookies/new players is that they all seem to be highly intelligent. I feel the same way about Armstrong......but his production has not increased this year. so...I'm in wait mode. the impressive thing is how many of these draft picks are playing - and contributing.

parts of my preseason checklist are being met:

- find a new center...check

- find some running backs...check

- develop a pass rush....check

but others:

- find a QB

- find pass protectors that can keep the QB vertical

- find a dominant wideout

and a few others....well......there is work to be done. I think the bulk of folks around here lay too much emphasis...at this stage on wins & losses. they lurch from one extreme to the other depending on the final score. I'm more interested in the building process. putting aside my wild wish for a high draft pick just this once to not only grab our QB (without having to give away other picks) and to have a cherry position in all the other rounds....what is interesting about the rooks is examining how they fit into the scheme Shanahan is trying to mold.
 
and a few others....well......there is work to be done. I think the bulk of folks around here lay too much emphasis...at this stage on wins & losses. they lurch from one extreme to the other depending on the final score. I'm more interested in the building process. putting aside my wild wish for a high draft pick just this once to not only grab our QB (without having to give away other picks) and to have a cherry position in all the other rounds....what is interesting about the rooks is examining how they fit into the scheme Shanahan is trying to mold.

This is why I get frustrated with those who want to lose. I agree with EVERYTHING you said here. Everything. And I am not thrilled about a win for a win's sake, but I am thrilled that the young players on whom the team will be relying on for years to come in one way or another, are playing well enough to beat a division rival on the road, in a place we have had difficulty winning for years. That bodes incredibly well for next year, and the following years as well.

Far moreso than the capriciousness of a draft pick, imo. All the signs are good, we are trending upwards; if we need to trade up to get our franchise QB, well, that should mean we don't have quite as many holes to fill as we thought a month ago.
 
I know I feel much better after a win and prefer wins to losses. Where we draft isn't a concern of mine.

What I like is the way this team is responding. With all the injuries and suspensions the team could have mailed it in. Instead, we are seeing young guys take advantage of their
chances. Just hope Williams and Davis are paying close attention.

The team seems to be buying into Shanahan's philosophy. In another year or two this team will be very good.
 
If my decidedly unscientific calculations are correct, we now inhabit the #7 slot in the draft and the 3 teams that jumped over us (Jags, Browns, and Bucs) all nominally have their "QB of the future" in Gabbert, McCoy and Freeman. If that is the case, we have not hurt ourselves much, if at all, and gained a season sweep of the Giants. I call that a win, folks.

Just wish I could have watched the whole thing. Goal, were your ears burning yesterday about 1:45? I was talking about you as we blew by your joint on our way to my folks place for Christmas.
 
Aww, you shoulda stopped. Hell, if you brought any of your homebrew, I might have let you stay.

:)
 
Aww, you shoulda stopped. Hell, if you brought any of your homebrew, I might have let you stay.

:)

He doesn't brew Boo Berry beer Goal. :movefast:

Edit: OK guys, that's the last berry beer joke aimed at Goal. I just couldn't resist. :laugh:
 
Feel free to continue, by all means. Just be prepared for more wife jokes...

:evil:

:)
 
I thought you got the first year of marriage free of wife jokes...
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