A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1
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    College at Brockport

    Default You can't build a house from the roof up... It starts with the Foundation

    The Redskins, for years, have attempted to build this franchise from the roof down to the basement. We've gone years without a quality quarterback (though, Gibbs at least tried with Campbell, and say what you want, he's one of the better QBs we've had statistically in the last 20 years) and without a quality OL. We haven't put the investment in those places and it shows.

    Our defensive line is coming together nicely, and only Carriker is a free agent at the end of this year. I include Orakpo and Kerrigan as DL... because for the most part they're playing stand up end roles with occasional coverage assignments.

    But our offensive line is putrid. We have no depth whatsoever, and our starters aren't exactly world beaters. To be quite honest, I'm not sure Trent is as good a left tackle as we believed... That said, he's a good lineman, and if worse comes to worse for us, he could be a very good Jon Jansen-like right tackle.

    Montgomery is a decent center and that position isn't in need of an immediate upgrade, as long as we're able to resign him as he's a free agent after this season. Lichtensteiger is another free agent who is a decent player that we need to find a way to keep around, at the very least for great depth... His injury should lower his value and make him easier to sign, but it also may affect his play.

    So because of the injury, left guard needs to be addressed. Add right guard and right tackle as well as spots we NEED to address. With guys like Carl Nicks (Saints, G) and Ben Grubbs (Ravens, G) available in FA, we have to make a play for one or both of them. Chances are we won't get both, but I would be ecstatic if we grabbed one. Chris Chester could be a good reserve at guard for us.

    David DeCastro (Guard) in the draft from Stanford would be a good pull, but he won't be available in the second round it seems and we need to address QB with our first rounder as long as either Luck (won't be there), Griffin, Barkley or Tannehill are around. Nate Potter would be a great third rounder at right tackle. There are places where we can take MAJOR steps forward this offseason.

    A quarterback like Matt Flynn would be an excellent pick up if our draft status isn't high enough to get one of the QBs, but I think that's not going to be an issue and we should wind up with one of the big four QBs (Luck, Griffin, Barkley or Tannehill). But, I'd say we need to focus in on a quality backup as well. Josh Johnson from Tampa Bay might be a nice signing for us to hang our hats on.

    An offseason where we revamp our line and quarterback position will make us a MUCH better football team, even if we have some holes in the peripheral positions.

    We need to start by laying the foundation... Then worry about the rest later. We started that trend with our DL. Time to focus in on the OL/QB and we have the basement built. Then its time to build upwards.

    EDIT: Left a sentence incomplete in there. Whoops.
    Last edited by KDawg; 11-14-11 at 09:14 AM.
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    James Madison

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    KDawg, would you keep Locklear around? He has had some trouble but also played fairly solidly as well. Do you (or anyone else) have any idea why the team hasn't even flirted with the idea of moving Trent to RT? Put Locklear at LT and Trent at RT and see how they play.
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    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

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    College at Brockport

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    KDawg, would you keep Locklear around? He has had some trouble but also played fairly solidly as well. Do you (or anyone else) have any idea why the team hasn't even flirted with the idea of moving Trent to RT? Put Locklear at LT and Trent at RT and see how they play.
    I would guess that Locklear makes them nervous on the left side...

    I'd keep Locklear as depth, depending on what happens with Jamaal Brown. With Brown under contract, we can either try to get him to play LT and Trent RT (I think we're better off the way its been with Trent at LT and Brown at RT) or we can see if he can play right guard as a backup or as a starter. The third option with Brown is to just flat get rid of him.

    Locklear is not bad depth, and with having to address so many starter level positions on our OL, I'd say keeping him is a bit of a no brainer.
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    Florida State

    Default

    And while I made a thread about it so it is being discussed in detail over there, your whole post is predicated on the ability to bring in the right talent. You are assuming that Shanahan is going to draft well.

    For 2 seasons in a row now we have addressed QB's and the offensive line with players that Shanahan has brought in. Shanahan has boxed himself in. If he fails to get it right with this off-season, we are screwed for years to come and so is he.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    And while I made a thread about it so it is being discussed in detail over there, your whole post is predicated on the ability to bring in the right talent. You are assuming that Shanahan is going to draft well.

    For 2 seasons in a row now we have addressed QB's and the offensive line with players that Shanahan has brought in. Shanahan has boxed himself in. If he fails to get it right with this off-season, we are screwed for years to come and so is he.
    I have my reservations for if he will do it right. But then again, I never claimed this is the action that we are going to take. But rather the action that I'd like to see taken, or what I feel is a necessary action. It's purely my feelings.

    I couldn't tell you what the team is going to do. They baffle me every offseason. Though this last offseason was better than it has been in a long time.
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    Florida State

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    Quote Originally Posted by KDawg View Post
    I have my reservations for if he will do it right. But then again, I never claimed this is the action that we are going to take. But rather the action that I'd like to see taken, or what I feel is a necessary action. It's purely my feelings.

    I couldn't tell you what the team is going to do. They baffle me every offseason. Though this last offseason was better than it has been in a long time.

    I'm with you there KD. I mentioned somewhere in this forum that we should try to get Matt Flynn, keep Rex as veteran backup (release him early if Flynn works out like we think he can) and draft our future QB in the first round and perhaps a project in the latter rounds. Then I said rounds 2-5 should address OL. That might be extreme since we have other depth needs, but we need to address the OL.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

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    Default

    Of course, if the builder doesn't know WTF he's doing, and uses old and faulty materials, the resulting flawed foundation will result in a more spectacularly destructive collapse.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

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    Army

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    You can't build a house from the roof up? This guy calls bull****

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    Navy

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    I think the foundations are coming along nicely I know we are not there yet butthis offseason will be huge i believe we will pick up a fee agent or 2 for the line that can start while we groom a draft pick to take over
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    Quote Originally Posted by redskins26 View Post
    I think the foundations are coming along nicely I know we are not there yet butthis offseason will be huge i believe we will pick up a fee agent or 2 for the line that can start while we groom a draft pick to take over
    Not sure how you figure the foundation is coming around nicely.

    Lichtensteiger (injured) and Monty are free agents who may or may not resign. Trent Williams has made some critical mistakes (although, he's probably still the best of the bunch and he's done pretty good), Jamaal Brown is a total bust of a signing and Chris Chester is a liability. Our depth is pretty non existant, although Locklear has been decent.

    And at quarterback we have Beck and Grossman.

    We have no foundation on the offensive side.

    Now, if you want to talk about the defensive side of the ball and the DL/OLBs than I'd say absolutely, there's a foundation.
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  11. #11
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    Navy

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    Quote Originally Posted by KDawg View Post
    Not sure how you figure the foundation is coming around nicely.

    Lichtensteiger (injured) and Monty are free agents who may or may not resign. Trent Williams has made some critical mistakes (although, he's probably still the best of the bunch and he's done pretty good), Jamaal Brown is a total bust of a signing and Chris Chester is a liability. Our depth is pretty non existant, although Locklear has been decent.

    And at quarterback we have Beck and Grossman.

    We have no foundation on the offensive side.

    Now, if you want to talk about the defensive side of the ball and the DL/OLBs than I'd say absolutely, there's a foundation.
    The offense does need some work but i think had the line stayed healthy we would have at least 2 more wins and hopefully both of them resign with us for modest deals
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDawg View Post
    Not sure how you figure the foundation is coming around nicely.

    Lichtensteiger (injured) and Monty are free agents who may or may not resign. Trent Williams has made some critical mistakes (although, he's probably still the best of the bunch and he's done pretty good), Jamaal Brown is a total bust of a signing and Chris Chester is a liability. Our depth is pretty non existant, although Locklear has been decent.

    And at quarterback we have Beck and Grossman.

    We have no foundation on the offensive side.

    Now, if you want to talk about the defensive side of the ball and the DL/OLBs than I'd say absolutely, there's a foundation.
    I couldnt agree more, we NEED nosetackle but at least cofield isnt beaten like Kemo was on almost every play we need a thumper at ILB and Kerrigan as a rookie is playing like I have expected Rak to play like for 2 years, On o locklear is decent but is a swing tackle type , I wouldnt want him starting for any length of time, Chester has been flat out brutal, lick is what he is a late round udfa type who overachieves in spurts but isnt good enough to start for long, monty is a back up calibre guy and TW is not an elite LT but I think could be very good at RT or LG.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rymanofthenorth View Post
    I couldnt agree more, we NEED nosetackle but at least cofield isnt beaten like Kemo was on almost every play we need a thumper at ILB and Kerrigan as a rookie is playing like I have expected Rak to play like for 2 years, On o locklear is decent but is a swing tackle type , I wouldnt want him starting for any length of time, Chester has been flat out brutal, lick is what he is a late round udfa type who overachieves in spurts but isnt good enough to start for long, monty is a back up calibre guy and TW is not an elite LT but I think could be very good at RT or LG.
    Bingo. There is no foundation to be seen on the offensive side of the football. I don't even see how it can be argued.
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    Default

    We need a QB plain and simple. You can criticize the QB situation, but you can't blame Shanahan waiting till this upcoming draft to get a QB. Now wether he had the foresight to wait till this upcoming draft is another story. Either way it's worked out for the best.

    It's hard to judge the overall team when you have no QB. I think we're worse off at DB than O line or D line. We need 2 more CB's(nickel and dime and someone who could challenge the starters). We also need another Saftey.

    My priorities would be...(1)QB (2)CB (3)O line (4)Saftey

    As far as the draft goes QB is obviously 1 and 2 is the better of the best CB and O line avaliable.

    Without the injuries, we had enough starters to make a run at the playoffs. If we had a good QB it would've have been a lock and even with the injuries we would still be battling for a spot.

    It's going to take atleast another 2 years, assuming we get a Qb that can play, until we have enough players to be a legit contender.
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    You can win without elite dbs, You cannot win without decent lines.

    I do want a franchise QB but I don't see a point in risking it all on a qb before we have a line to keep him from getting killed and gunshy, the last thing we need is to give up multiple picks before we have a foundation. what we really should be doing is building the Line, getting play makers and then once thats done, going after a qb and spending whatever we need to. but lets be honest, NOBODY least of all me is gonna be patient and trust Shanny to do that. we need a faster plan.
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    Ry, the fans will riot if there is no QB drafted in April. It will be ugly. My thinking is that Shanny will grab a few OLinemen in FA, then devote a large portion of the draft to the OLine after taking a QB in the first. Fans will put up with a lot, but another year of Rex and Beck won't do.
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    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

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    It'll all depend on where we wind up picking.

    BPA is the best route. If it's a QB, fine.

    Then the problem becomes, do we wind up with Heath Shuler, or Peyton Manning.

    If we get Peyton, the birds will sing, the sun will shine, and all the "I told you so's" will create a lovely breeze repeatedly patting themselves on the back.

    If we get another Shuler..............?

    I shudder to think.

    We need a QB, for sure. But I don't give a rats ass what round, or what former team/league/planet, we get him from.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Ry, the fans will riot if there is no QB drafted in April. It will be ugly. My thinking is that Shanny will grab a few OLinemen in FA, then devote a large portion of the draft to the OLine after taking a QB in the first. Fans will put up with a lot, but another year of Rex and Beck won't do.

    Thats the sad part, because we have waited so long we are forced to do things in a bad order. I hate the idea of risking a top pick getting shellshocked, because QB is already such a crapshoot, truthfully we need an Oline build I dont say rebuild because we havent had an oline for a long time, we have had one or two solid guys mixed with junk.

    I do agree Goalie if we dont address qb people will revolt, My idea (and others) is to sign Flynn, draft a qb in the first who best fits shannys scheme and then shotgun approach the oline (draft several guys to compete with whoever we can sign as free agents) frankly if we dont have an almost entirely new Oline, people need to be fired. dont sell the house to get the one guy.

    our issue is this team always did build backwards., we signed safeties and corners and did nothing on the line on D, we get Rbs and receivers and look at our line? gross, just gross. anyone who doesnt see that the Oline is absolutely the weakness of this team baffles me.
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    As bad as things seem right now, the team could make some very big strides to improve this offseason. Of course the team needs to draft their franchise QB which will happen, but equally importantly the team needs to add some serious talent on the oline. The Redskins need a blue chip RT in a very bad way, which they should be able to get at the top of the second round. After that the team can draft a couple of athletic guards to compete with the current guards. Brown could stick around as the back up tackle on both sides.

    Bring in a good young QB and a few good lineman and things will look a lot better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Ry, the fans will riot if there is no QB drafted in April. It will be ugly. My thinking is that Shanny will grab a few OLinemen in FA, then devote a large portion of the draft to the OLine after taking a QB in the first. Fans will put up with a lot, but another year of Rex and Beck won't do.
    agree. the only permutation may be that the Shanallens settle on a QB who may not be in our field of view. If we have a top 5 spot they may trade down for an extra 3rd or second on the expectation they can still get their QB.
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