A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1

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    Indiana

    Default Not everybody is on the Luck bandwagon

    I'm just posting this because, well, it's out there. There are some who aren't completely sold on the Andrew Luck hype as "the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning."

    First Phil Simms:

    There’s a small minority of league insiders who believe that Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck isn’t the franchise savior that most are making him out to be. Former NFL quarterback and current CBS/Showtime analyst Phil Simms appears to be a member of said minority.

    “I think the hype is a little too much,” Simms told Adam Schein and Rich Gannon of SiriusXM NFL Radio on Tuesday. “I feel bad for him in that respect. I mean, what’s he going to do to match what they say he can do?

    “There’s a lot to him. I think his best quality, by far, is he’s big and strong and he’s going to be able to move and run in the NFL. There’s no question. I mean, this guy is strong. The throwing? He manages a game. I see all that.

    “But the one thing I don’t see, I just don’t see big time NFL throws. I don’t care what anybody says. I’ve watched a lot of him. He never takes it and rips it in there. And you can say what you want but, man, you’ve got to be able to crease that ball every once in a while. We see it every week in these games. Hey, he can develop it but even in the USC game, you know, he’s very careful with it, guides it a lot, Rich. That’s what I see. There’s not a lot of rotation on the ball and there’s not a tremendous amount of power. Not that you need to have that power arm. I’m not saying you’ve got to have that exclusively but, man, it sure helps when you can do that because there’s four or five plays a game it is about arm strength. And sometimes quarterbacks who don’t have it, they pass those plays up. Why? Well, they go, ‘I don’t know if I can make that throw,’ so they throw it short. That’s why I’m a little more reserved in my judgment than everybody else.”

    Even though Simms recently has seemed to be intent on projecting contrarian opinions (even when those opinions stray into the realm of the goofy), he possibly is onto something here. The truth lies in the “all-22″ film, which will show whether Luck has downfield opportunities when opting to throw short. And the folks who are paid to assess college players will study that film. If Simms is onto something, the tape will bear it out.

    Still, the expectations remain way too high for Luck, and there’s a chance he’s being set up to fail. Given that he’s being viewed as the greatest prospect since Peyton Manning or John Elway, anything less than a bronze bust and a right hand riddled with rings will be viewed as an F.
    Link: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...n-andrew-luck/

    And Mike Florio wonders if everybody's being a bit unfair to Luck by burdening him with "can't miss" expectations.

    Luck is facing unrealistic expectations at next level
    Posted by Mike Florio on October 30, 2011, 10:02 AM EST
    Stanford University Luck celebrates his team's victory over the University of Southern California in Los Angeles Reuters

    Last night’s stirring, sleep-depriving, triple-overtime, 56-48 win over USC has advanced even farther the legend of Andrew Luck (even though he threw a key pick-six that set the stage for a game-tying drive and that overtime victory). Regarded not only as the clear-cut best prospect coming out (assuming he comes out) of college in 2012 but also as the best quarterback prospect since Peyton Manning in 1998 or fellow Stanford quarterback John Elway in 1983, Luck faces expectations that will be hard to satisfy, much less exceed.

    Six years ago, former USC tailback Reggie Bush was building similar hype as he rocketed toward the Heisman. Not even a less-than-stellar, performance in the 2006 Rose Bowl, which featured un-Reggie-like numbers and a boneheaded decision to try a downfield lateral, could derail his candidacy to be the first pick in the draft — and the presumption that he’ll be the next Gale Sayers. Even after the Texans opted to pass on Bush, which came not long after the first reports of his receipt of cash and other benefits while at USC emerged, we all expected Bush to have a dramatic and immediate impact, and to put together a resume that would make him a first-ballot entry into Canton.

    Similar expectations await Luck at the next level. Regardless of whether it’s fair or unfair, it’s a product of Luck’s performance at Stanford, media attention, fan anticipation, and a name that fits perfectly into a catchy slogan that creates hope for the worst teams in the NFL this season.

    But should the expectations be so high for Luck? As one league source explained it on Saturday, some scouts think that Luck may not be the franchise savior/multiple Super Bowl winner/sure-fire Hall of Famer that everyone expects him to be.

    Even if those scouts are simply choosing a contrarian view without firm evidence to support it, Luck would benefit from more people sharing that opinion. Otherwise, once he gets to the NFL he’ll have nowhere to go but down.
    Link: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...at-next-level/
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

  2. #2

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    James Madison

    Default

    No matter what happens, it is going to be an interesting story. Lots of pressure on this kid from day one, regardless of if this team with the number one pick drafts him, or if another team gives up the boatload of picks. Interesting to see how he handles that kind of pressure.

    I keep wavering on this one. He seems to be as sure a safe bet as we have seen, but I look around and see rookies stepping in right away and playing well immediately (Flacco, Cam, Dalton, Bradford, etc), and wonder if we would be better off keeping our pick and plugging other holes. On the other hand, while Flacco looked great as a rookie, I am not convinced he has grown too very much since then, and I wonder about him long term. Bradford also has regressed, though it is early with both.

    People on this forum who watch more college FB than I do, If Luck is a 10/10 on the prospect scale (or maybe a 9.5/10, given Serv's post), how do you feel about the other QBs likely to come out?
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  3. #3
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    Army

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    The only way I would take him if I was an owner, was if my team had the first pick. I wouldn't trade anything to get him, because he could just as easily be the next Ryan Leaf or Heath Shuler than the next Peyton Manning.
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  4. #4
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    Default

    Relax folks.

    The Rams and Dolphins both won a game, but the Colts just lost again 31-7 and show no signs of being able to win anything in 2011.

    With 3 wins the Redskins are safe IMO from getting the #1 overall pick.

    Believe it or not even with 3 or 4 wins the Redskins will most likely only end up with the #5 pick.

    There are a LOT of bad teams out there this year. Again.

    Whenever the Redskins need a top draft choice to take a franchise qb there always seems to be someone else that is worse.

    It's Bullets disease transferred to the NFL.

    Washington has broken through in the NBA with the John Wall selection and now the Redskins are the only team in town finishing poorly that didn't get a #1 pick.

    The Nationals selected Strasburg and Harper #1 overall.

    The Wizards got Wall.

    The Capitals got Ovechkin.
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  5. #5
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    Default

    I think we need to look at the possibility that the Skins are going to trade anything and everything to land Luck.

    He isn't Cam Newton, Andy Dalton or even Sam Bradford, he is the most can't miss prospect since Peyton Manning some would even say Elway. He is the real deal and I think the Skins will trade away the draft this year and a couple of high picks next year to get him. We drafted twelve guys in 2011! Why? So we could make a move like this. Kerrigan, Helu, Hankerson and Hurt are starting. Paul, Gomez, Thompson, White and Neild are on the roster and contributing. Jenkins will be back next year and will be an immediate starter.

    I am not saying Luck will be our starting QB next year but I think it is a possibility and Shanahan WILL pick up the phone and call whoever has the number one pick.
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  6. #6

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    Kent State

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    If we trade the farm it will be the biggest mistake since Spurrier and have longer lasting effects. Luck is not the answer for our problems and he doesn't have the arm strength of Manning and nowhere close to Elway.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinsOrlando View Post
    If we trade the farm it will be the biggest mistake since Spurrier and have longer lasting effects. Luck is not the answer for our problems and he doesn't have the arm strength of Manning and nowhere close to Elway.
    Nonsense.

    His arm is just fine. Phil Simms is an imbecile.

    What Luck has, beyond any prospect in years, is such a keen understanding of the game of football. As Wes Bunting says, what he does between the snap and before he throws the ball is unreal.

    He is going to be a star because he has the physical tools but has a superior understanding of the mental side of the QB position
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  8. #8

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    Virginia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Call me Ismail View Post
    What Luck has, beyond any prospect in years, is such a keen understanding of the game of football. As Wes Bunting says, what he does between the snap and before he throws the ball is unreal.

    He is going to be a star because he has the physical tools but has a superior understanding of the mental side of the QB position
    This is why I support giving up four first rounders for Luck. He could be the best QB to come out of college - ever.
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  9. #9

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    Marine Corps Virginia

    Default

    I'm not sure we need to be afraid of any approach that has a chance at turning this thing around at this point.

    Seriously.

    We are face down in the gutter. Rock bottom.
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    Virginia

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    And some of us are now sporting grocery bags over our heads. Not me, but I've heard of some who are doing this now.
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    The simplicity in me is complicated.
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  11. #11

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    Marine Corps Virginia

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    We all have our coping mechanisms BB
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  12. #12
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    Florida State

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    Oh man! Here we go again! While the sentiment to acquire a QB who is going to lead this team for the next 8-10 years is warranted and necessary, I am so tired of the idea of "Suck for Luck!"

    From everything I have seen, Andrew Luck is going to be a top quality QB and I have watched at least 7 or 8 games with him, but if anybody seriously suggests giving up something in the range of 4-6 #1 or #2 picks is ridiculous!
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  13. #13

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    Virginia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    Oh man! Here we go again! While the sentiment to acquire a QB who is going to lead this team for the next 8-10 years is warranted and necessary, I am so tired of the idea of "Suck for Luck!"

    From everything I have seen, Andrew Luck is going to be a top quality QB and I have watched at least 7 or 8 games with him, but if anybody seriously suggests giving up something in the range of 4-6 #1 or #2 picks is ridiculous!
    I would agree if this was two years ago and the target could've been Sam Bradford. Nothing against Bradford, but no one was willing to give the house, car, boat, and first born for him.

    Luck is a different breed though. His time in the league will probably be longer than the eight to ten years that you cite. Fifteen years is very realistic for him and perhaps a bit longer. For such a price and considering his skillsets/intelligence, it is more than worth it at four first round picks. Maybe he can be had for three first rounders and a player or another high pick.

    Bottom line, if we are in the realm of possibility, you make the move. Peyton Manning was 10-6 last year with virtually the same roster they have now. Without Peyton, you can see what they are currently doing. Yes, Luck can make that kind of a difference.
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  14. #14

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    Indiana

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    I've watched Luck a few times this season. Is he another Peyton or Brady?

    Maybe. Or perhaps more likely almost another Peyton or Brady.

    But that would be enough.

    He is a very heady QB indeed-makes few mistakes and throws very catchable passes (Jabbar Gaffney and Anthony Armstrong would love the guy!). He's accurate, reasonably mobile and as has been noted makes quick reads and adjustments.

    Does he throw lasers like Rodgers or Brees? No. Would he need to? Well that would depend on the system, scheming, receiving corps...etc. Sometimes his movement when he needs mobility looks a little...well...mechanical to me like he's thinking about it consciously rather than it being an almost automatic reflex.

    I will tell you one thing, however, if we could fanagle our way into drafting him without surrendering "too" many future draft selections (I'm kinda antsy about 4 #1s to be honest) I'd hop on board in a minute.

    We need a QB. And Luck is one QB I've seen that could, IMO, actually make our current receiving corps play better.

    I'd grab OL bodies with the remaining picks, BTW. And a corner to replace Hall.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

  15. #15
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    Florida State

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    No Boone, I would not have given that for them, Ben Rothlisberger either. This team is more than a great QB away. We just don't need Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. How many Super Bowls have those 2 QB's won in the last 5 years? And neither of them were players either team needed to give away the farm to acquire. In fact, I challenge anyone to find me a QB in the history of the NFL that a team gave away 3 1st round picks to acquire and won a Super Bowl. The only QB I can think of who was traded away as the 1st pick that won multiple Super Bowls was John Elway and Denver did not give away 3 1st round picks.

    I am as desperate as anyone here for a winning franchise in DC. I look at Detroit, San Fran, New Orleans and see how they have been rebuilt over the past 5 years. I think San Fran is a great model, they focused on their O-line through the 1st 2 rounds of the draft the past couple of years, added some FA in other places then plugged in Alex Smith and a quality coach. (I am counting Alex Smith as a FA in this context because for all intents and purposes, he was)

    I know we have a lot of building to do and it does not make sense that we have not picked any QB's. We could have had Ryan Mallett or at least a QB like Greg McElroy in this draft. I truly believe Shanahan was trying to pick up Andy Dalton in the 2nd round and when he didn't, decided Beck could get it done. He was wrong.

    I just don't believe mortgaging the future on a QB who looks great in College who has yet to prove themselves on the NFL stage. I believe Luck will be one of the great ones, but Peyton Manning only won 1 Super Bowl in 13 years. I believe we can get a QB who can be a winner in DC without giving up the farm.

    I have gone through the stats before, only 2 QB's in the past 10 years won a SB have been chosen by the team they won the SB with with a pick in the top 10. While a great team needs a great QB, mortgaging the future is not the way to go about it.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  16. #16

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    We are face down in the gutter. Rock bottom.
    To quote a good friend of mine...Wino Bad.
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  17. #17

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    well...we aren't going to get Luck. Indy can't wait to draft the guy.

    we're bad...but not as bas as during the Zorn years when who was calling the plays was a standing NFL joke.

    The Defense has improved...another piece or two and it will be good enough...on that 16-19 pts a game range.

    we have RBs and TEs. we have a system in place. who knows...we may even have a receiver or two worth keeping over the long haul. we have a linemen or two worth keeping. longer term:

    - we need a game breaker wideout. we need 2-3 quality o-line starters and depth.

    - the big gap is QB. we don't need Luck to be playoff caliber. we'll have to trust....gulp.....the FO to lazer in on the right guy!

    while the stuff we have to watch is pretty bad.....it's not down the ***tter bad! we're not "blown out" bad.....at least not so with 1/2 the season in the can.
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  18. #18

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    Kent State

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    I think someone should start a poll along these lines and see what the majority opinion is.

    Do anything it takes for Luck
    Luck for 2 1st's and a 2nd
    Darft the best qb available at our spot
    Trade down, then draft the best available qb
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    "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to high office" Aesop

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinsOrlando View Post
    I think someone should start a poll along these lines and see what the majority opinion is.

    Do anything it takes for Luck
    Luck for 2 1st's and a 2nd
    Darft the best qb available at our spot
    Trade down, then draft the best available qb

    good idea! how about it?!!!!
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