A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1
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    Default The biggest reason for Shannys failure so far?

    as much as I want to say ego, because in the end I think its been his ego thats killing him, I think its the fact that he has been without Alex Gibbs for this tenure.

    Gibbs is a brilliant Oline coach who also helped coordinate the run game, but the biggest thing is he teaches techniques. the moron we have teaching our Oline now has overseen the regression of TW, plays several guys out of their best positions and obviously hasnt got a clue. I wouldnt be surprised if by the end of the season we are near the bottom of every metric.

    The Zone system used in denver relied on cut blocking on the away side of the pay, something I rarely see us do, it involved and entire Oline moving in concert, again something I dont think we ever see. I think we are seeing a failure of technique as well as talent. and without steady Oline play, you cnat even eval the rest of this offence except at the most basic level, and thats just to say it sucks.
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    It didn't help that he came in here with a dirth of draft picks and a bare cabinet from the danny/vinny years

    I do however, hold him completely responsible for the QB fiasco we are experiencing
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    I can't breakdown the subtle nuainces of the line play like yourself . I'm at a loss trying to understand how or why when an opposing defense blitzes... quite often our qb has very little time and yet quite often no ones really open!
    I completely understand what they mean when they talk about a qb seeing the field...but quite often when they replay the down it's not like there were 1 or 2 guys open.
    Is it just a matter of our offense being incapable of reading the defense and making the adjustments presnap? If the opposing defense sends 5 or 6 someone should be open I would think.
    It's even more frustrating for me to see the majority of the defense on our side of the scrimmage line and our qb(insert anyone of the last few) will still manage to throw into double coverage.
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    Couple of things about Gibbs. He was slated to be the Seahawks O-line coach in 2010 in Pete Carrol's first year but resigned a week before the season because he was "worn out" (he's 69 years old).

    There was also some kind of falling out between Gibbs and Shanahan after Mike fired Alex's son who was a Bronco's assistant of some kind. Not sure if they are past that or if that's still an issue. "Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives....."
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    I don't think he's failing so much as he's rebuilding the team, and we all knew (or should have known) it was gonna hurt.

    Like Sarge, I do think he's completely butchered the QB situation, which is not insignificant. So if you want to get on him for 'failing' that's where I'd start.
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    We're not a failure.

    We're actually better than last year.

    Our 2011 Winning Percentage is .429

    Last year it was .375

    That sounds like successful improvement to me.
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    Marine Corps Virginia

    Default

    Let's not forget, this team has literally been decimated with injuries. We don't want to talk about it because it sounds like an excuse (and yeah, all teams have injuries), but it's a fact. We are playing good NFL teams with what amounts to a patchwork roster.

    It was going to be tough for us to be .500 or better this year. With some unfortunate luck on the injury front, it's been a perfect storm.

    I don't know that 3-4 bad weeks undo all of the positive moves we saw in the off-season and signs of progress before the injuries really began taking their toll, but we may still be making organizational progress even during what's going to be a tough rest of the season.

    Just trying to provide a little positive energy in what is a depressing run of threads and analysis.
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    trent williams had one bad game this year the Giants game and he hadnt given up a sack since that game till he got injured
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    I don't think he's failing so much as he's rebuilding the team, and we all knew (or should have known) it was gonna hurt.

    Like Sarge, I do think he's completely butchered the QB situation, which is not insignificant. So if you want to get on him for 'failing' that's where I'd start.

    Henry....knowing how you favor the last draft.....what were Shanahan's options vis QB? he made a mistake w/McNabb....but...short of drafting a QB last draft...what else was there? I'll give him this...the previous regime left so many holes it's going to be a mammoth effort.

    My first thought...as Ry put it...was ego. but if that's what it takes to build a winner....I can wait.
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    Default

    While I personally cannot pinpoint the biggest reason for the failure thus far, I will say this...

    Unless Mike Shanahan is prepared to be really bad for another season or two, I don't think he'll be successful in Washington. Keep in mind that I make this statement under the assumption that Dan Snyder will demonstrate full patience in the process.

    Any team that wants to experience success needs to hit rock bottom as we've hashed out numerous times in the past.

    Moves like the McNabb one from a year ago, and the fact that guys like Stallworth are still seeing the field ahead of younger rookies for instance, make me sometimes wonder if Shanahan is prepared to go through the significant growing pains that are required in order for struggling franchises to get their ships turned around and pointing towards consistency.
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    Failure to do what? Field a winner? And around and around we go......

    Let's remind ourselves for the umpteenth time that the youth/talent cupboard was essentially bare when Shanallen arrived. Vinny, may you rot in hell.

    But seeing as Alex Gibbs absence would appear to be the excuse du jour for this years suckfest, let's also remind ourselves that O-line continuity is without a doubt, the single biggest factor in offensive production. This is undeniable.

    So, where were we last year on the O-line?
    1: Williams = New rookie
    2: Lichtensteiger = Who the hell are you and where did you come from?
    3: Rabach = Over the hill and far away
    4: Hicks = Artis who, really?
    5: Brown = Over the hill and playing on a bum hip

    Throw in the uncoachable, unteachable DMac, very few skill players at RB & WR, a defense in transition and the results were all to predictable.

    Where are we this years on the O-line?
    1: Williams = Injured (Locklear)
    2: 'steiger = Injured (1st yr starter Montgomery playing out of position)
    3: Cook = Backup
    4: Chester = New FA .. (Jurys out)
    5: Brown = Over the hill and showing it

    So where is the continuity? Where is the "growth"? This O-line right now, looks nothing like the O-line at the beginning of the year (when we were eeking out some wins) and looks nothing like last years O-line!

    This is what rebuilding looks like. It's ulgy, it's hard work and it's time consuming. And more to the point, it's uglier when it involves the O & D lines because the stakes are so much higher.

    Forget Alex Gibbs. Frankly, I can't believe his name is even mentioned under the circumstanses.... But more importantly, let's give a break to O-line coach, Chris Foerester whos job it is right now to try and make a silk purse out of a sows ear! (hog reference)
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    Shanahan is a career .500 coach. With franchises, like ours, that he has had control over.

    So what exactly again, makes anyone believe that he is going to wildly outperform here?

    Is it the winning tradition? The strong system in place? The championship environment?

    Can anyone really finish this sentence:

    I believe Shanny will be much better in DC than he has been in the last ten years, because....
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    Henry....knowing how you favor the last draft.....what were Shanahan's options vis QB? he made a mistake w/McNabb....but...short of drafting a QB last draft...what else was there? I'll give him this...the previous regime left so many holes it's going to be a mammoth effort.
    Really? YOU need me to go through this again?

    Ok, first thing I would have done is not traded away any more picks. If McNabb was merely a placeholder until we could get our future QB on the roster, well, he was a hell of an expensive one. He cost us picks, which could have been used to either pick more players or maneuver to get a QB, in the present or in the near future. Given that we were going to suck anyway I would have signed whoever was around and available to hand the ball off until I was able to draft someone. Rex Grossman immediately comes to mind. Then this year, with one of our five hundred picks grab a QB. Get 7th rounder if you want to wait until next year to get our real QB. I don't give a crap. Just get a young guy who you can send in there if Rex throws four interceptions, and then if he plays like utter crap you can at least chalk it up to the learning curve. Who knows? Maybe we'd actually get lucky for once.

    But my thinking is, because we gave up picks for McNabb he wasn't a placeholder. We were actually going to build our team around him. In that case what I would have done differently is ... not do that. Given how insanely bare the cupboard was last year and how much we needed (and still need) to do to put together a decent team, starting with a 34 year old QB is about the last thing I'd have in mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuriousD View Post
    Failure to do what? Field a winner? And around and around we go......

    Let's remind ourselves for the umpteenth time that the youth/talent cupboard was essentially bare when Shanallen arrived. Vinny, may you rot in hell.

    But seeing as Alex Gibbs absence would appear to be the excuse du jour for this years suckfest, let's also remind ourselves that O-line continuity is without a doubt, the single biggest factor in offensive production. This is undeniable.

    So, where were we last year on the O-line?
    1: Williams = New rookie
    2: Lichtensteiger = Who the hell are you and where did you come from?
    3: Rabach = Over the hill and far away
    4: Hicks = Artis who, really?
    5: Brown = Over the hill and playing on a bum hip

    Throw in the uncoachable, unteachable DMac, very few skill players at RB & WR, a defense in transition and the results were all to predictable.

    Where are we this years on the O-line?
    1: Williams = Injured (Locklear)
    2: 'steiger = Injured (1st yr starter Montgomery playing out of position)
    3: Cook = Backup
    4: Chester = New FA .. (Jurys out)
    5: Brown = Over the hill and showing it

    So where is the continuity? Where is the "growth"? This O-line right now, looks nothing like the O-line at the beginning of the year (when we were eeking out some wins) and looks nothing like last years O-line!

    This is what rebuilding looks like. It's ulgy, it's hard work and it's time consuming. And more to the point, it's uglier when it involves the O & D lines because the stakes are so much higher.

    Forget Alex Gibbs. Frankly, I can't believe his name is even mentioned under the circumstanses.... But more importantly, let's give a break to O-line coach, Chris Foerester whos job it is right now to try and make a silk purse out of a sows ear! (hog reference)
    and who decided to go into this season with no real signings on oline? foerester is junk btw, Oline coaching is not easy especially a zbs, he is out of his depth.
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    Patience...Shanahan has had to undo a decade of mismanagement. A decade of few to no draft picks, and draft busts when there were picks to be made. A decade of free agent frenzies that often resulted in little to no production on the field (or glorified punt-protectors). Its gonna take more than two seasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    I don't think he's failing so much as he's rebuilding the team, and we all knew (or should have known) it was gonna hurt.

    Like Sarge, I do think he's completely butchered the QB situation, which is not insignificant. So if you want to get on him for 'failing' that's where I'd start.
    While the draft picks used for McNabb could have been better utilized, I liked the gamble when he took it (and still do - the potential reward was worth the risk). I'm of the opinion its obvious that Shanahan has always had an eye towards the 2012 draft to get his QB, and he was hoping McNabb could bridge the gap until then. The past two years have been about building the team around the QB position, with placeholders there until he gets "his guy." It should have been only one instead of now 3, but McNugget didn't work out. At least, that's how I have to rationalize it in my head.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Patience...Shanahan has had to undo a decade of mismanagement. A decade of few to no draft picks, and draft busts when there were picks to be made.
    You meant TWO decades, right? I know it's easy to pile on Snyder & Co.
    But the two JKC's final years, weren't any better.

    Jack put the curse on us. And it's proving to be one tough SOB to break.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    You meant TWO decades, right? I know it's easy to pile on Snyder & Co.
    But the two JKC's final years, weren't any better.

    Jack put the curse on us. And it's proving to be one tough SOB to break.
    Well yes, two decades. But Snyder had the opportunity to turn things around, but instead dug the hole even deeper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Well yes, two decades. But Snyder had the opportunity to turn things around, but instead dug the hole even deeper.
    And JKC had the opportunity to never let the franchise change hands, therefore preventing Snyder from ever having a chance to make mistakes. The team was a loser, already digging a deeper hole when Snyder bought it.
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    I'm sure we can go back and forth all day about how bad of shape the franchise was in when Shanahan and Allen took over, but the point is that they took over a team in disarray.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    And JKC had the opportunity to never let the franchise change hands, therefore preventing Snyder from ever having a chance to make mistakes. The team was a loser, already digging a deeper hole when Snyder bought it.
    Uh, they went to the playoffs in 99 and had two picks the following year that allowed them to pick Samuals and Arrington
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