A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1
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    Default Special Teams Coaching

    Alright all you experienced football players. Tell me again exactly why we didn't have an "out" for that muffed snap on the FG?

    You know, the play they coach you, if you are a holder, too immediately go into pass mode if the snap is dropped. I used to be a holder, they want the guy with the best hands to hold, but there is always going to be a drop for any number of reasons. Great coaching will have a play for that, where the kicker runs into the flat for the pass from the holder. The holder doesn't even have to get up to pass it that far. There is a dam play for that and our coaches apparently don't coach for contingencies. No excuse, watching the holder, it was obvious he wasn't coached for it. Everyone knows there is no time to "re-tee" up the ball once dropped.

    Sorry but I've got to call them out on it. I haven't seen anyone else do it but I can't sit quiet any more.
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    Kent State

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    Special teams coaching has been questionable for many years, the lack of blocking on our kick returns was also perturbing to see. One could argue Banks doesn't need to take every ball out but even with his speed if the blocking upfront doesn't create lanes we are in trouble.
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    I would also like to see a friggin fake FG for a change. When you are 4th and 1 in their red zone, come on, let's get creative. We needed to get them behind so that our D could tee off. Instead, Felix runs amouk in the second half. They should have been behind and in full pass mode. I really have to question whats being called on the sidelines during certain situations. Even the 2nd Cooley handoff for no gain, everyone knew including the other team, that was coming. Coaches need to have a come to Jesus meeting. And soon.
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    Virginia Tech

    Default

    I think that's a pretty interesting question, actually. Sav did look pretty silly trying to tee it up after the bobble---it's certainly something we've seen before from other holders, but that doesn't necessarily "excuse" it.

    I remember the famous botched hold in the Tampa Bay playoff game in '99....Brad Johnson was up and looking to make a pass in an instant. Clearly something that had been practiced. No indication that was part of Sav's mentality on Monday night.

    Might have to dig a little on this one, if for curiosity's sake alone.
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    Florida State

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    Om, are sure it was Johnson with the ball in his hands? I thought that was the play that got Turk run out of town? Or was it his brother's snap that got them both run out of town?
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

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    Default

    I don't understand having the punter holding anyway. Years ago the holder would be the QB or backup QB. These guys are used to handling the ball and are better at bad snaps. Plus with a QB (starter or backup) in it opens up the chance for fake FG's.

    Theisman held for Mosley. Why not let Beck be the holder?
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  7. #7
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    Virginia Tech

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    Om, are sure it was Johnson with the ball in his hands? I thought that was the play that got Turk run out of town? Or was it his brother's snap that got them both run out of town?
    Not to pick at an old scab, but ...

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo...s_collapse_ap/

    With the Redskins lined up to kick a 52-yard field goal with 1:17 remaining in Saturday's playoff game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Turk bounced the snap back to holder Brad Johnson. Johnson got sacked trying to throw a desperation pass, and kicker Brett Conway never got a chance to win it. Washington lost, 14-13.

    "When you've got a makeable field goal, you'd like to see the ball get up in the air," coach Norv Turner said...
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    James Madison

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    Just threw up all over my desk.

    Thanks Om. No. Really. Thanks.
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    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

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    Virginia Tech

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    Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

    Apparently there is a dearth of history books in Ashburn.
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    James Madison

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    My therapist says I can learn, but not dwell.
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    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    I think that's a pretty interesting question, actually. Sav did look pretty silly trying to tee it up after the bobble---it's certainly something we've seen before from other holders, but that doesn't necessarily "excuse" it.

    I remember the famous botched hold in the Tampa Bay playoff game in '99....Brad Johnson was up and looking to make a pass in an instant. Clearly something that had been practiced. No indication that was part of Sav's mentality on Monday night.

    Might have to dig a little on this one, if for curiosity's sake alone.

    maybe they have practiced this and learned that Sav can't pass worth a dang!
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  12. #12
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    Virginia Tech

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    Hmm. Perhaps they said, "listen mate, ya can't throw worth a damn, so if you botch a FG snap go ahead and try to tee it up again anyway. It could work."
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    Default

    One would think and hope that if Sav couldn't throw worth a damn that someone else would be holding... Just sayin'
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    Florida State

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    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    Not to pick at an old scab, but ...
    I remember now that Johnson couldn't get the ball down, but Turk skirted it to him.

    I remember that play getting both a Pro-Bowl punter and his long snap brother run out of town.

    Regardless, I blame Johnson more for that loss because of the duck he threw up for Lynch to intercept in the 2nd half! If they had won that game, the Redskins would have come to St. Louis for the NFC Championship. I was living in St. Louis at the time. UGH!
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

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    Default

    You mean there is special teams coaching going on in Washington?

    Banks takes balls 8 yards deep and returns them to the 14. Seems like there is no strategy for WHEN in the game and under what circumstances Banks should take the ball out of the end zone.

    Blocking schemes? How do you have two players go to block a linebacker and have no one cover a 6'7 DL in Calais Campbell who is the one player for the Cardinals that could get his hands up and block the FG?

    Then you add in the botched hold and the Gano miss in the opener against the Giants, and that's ALL THREE GAMES where the Redskins left 3 points on the field.

    3rd and 21 might very well have been different call and circumstance with a lead that would have required Dallas to score a TD rather than a FG.

    That's the big difference between recent Redskins teams and ones of the past.

    Allen and Gibbs teams' had special teams that were often SPECIAL.

    Against Dallas, Mike Nelms used to have some of his best games.

    Remember how Brian Mitchell opened up the 1991 season against Detroit by returning the opening kickoff for a TD?

    Banks is on the team to provide a spark. But I haven't seem much from him so far and because he doesn't play WR he's a one-trick pony.

    If he isn't producing on returns it's a wasted roster spot.

    Seems every year we are back to looking at Danny Smith and the decisions he makes along with the concurrence of the front office.
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    James Madison

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    I have a feeling if Banks doesn't produce something soon, that spot goes to Paul, and they cut Banks to get Austin and/or Hank time on the active roster.
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    Default

    Two things.......as for that Tampa playoff game, as much as that bad snap hurt, wasn't that also the game where Alstott scored without any evidence he crossed the goaline, since the pileup was too large and conjested for any ref to see. In other words they gave them 6 for being close. bogus.

    Secondly, OM that picture of Johnson is very interesting. Witness his leg position. That's typically not how you would position yourself to take the snap, maybe the picture was a second later and he moved his legs to make the throwing move. I'm guessing thats the case. Normally your left knee is down, and your right leg is extended and pointing toward the snapper.
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