A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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    Default Picking Grossman sends the right message

    Choosing Grossman as the starter and announcing it at the conclusion of the preseason and not letting the question dangle was the right thing to do. Bare with me, I know what you're thinking... another qb thread, God no, but this thread isn't actually about Grossman, but the Shanahans.

    You see, picking Grossman wasn't the right thing to do because of Rex's experience, or because it was the "safer" pick or even because Grossman has better knowledge of the system, but because reportedly the Shanahan's really liked John Beck.

    The message sent was no favoritism. We'll play the guy who plays best even if we root for the other guy. Grossman won the preseason and he's the starter. That's as it should be. The Shanahan's put aside their ego and their preference (if we believe reports) and went with results.

    After years of playing positions being guarenteed and tenure or salary trumping everything else... this is an important message to send. The best man gets the job. Be the best man. Last year, Haynesworth was never the best man and Mike made the wrong call in insisting for ten games that Donovan was. What would have happened if after that first benching if Grossman got to play a few and showed Donovan what this offense was supposed to look like and how effective it could be. Would it have flipped the season? Would it have turned on McNabb's light bulb and curtailed his resistance?

    For all that I love about Gibbs his excessive loyalty was a weakness too. It made people fight for him, but it also kept quite a few players on the field who didn't deserve to be on the field. Pay check guys. Drama Kings.

    Picking Grossman sends a clear message as does Armstrong becoming our second last year or keeping an undrafted free agent over Artis Hicks. What you do matters more than who you are.

    For that reason, though I would have been fine with Beck or Grossman. Mike Shanahan made the right call and was correct to announce it to the world immediately.
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    Regardless of the outcome of the competition, color me surprised that after looking solid against starters in the preseason Beck went out against the Bucs' second teamers and looked tentative and made 'rookie' mistakes.
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    I think the moment caught up with him. It happens to everyone. He knew this was his final opportunity to win the job. He choked. That doesn't mean he always will, but when the pressure of realizing his dream came, this time, it overwhelmed him.

    At least that's what it says in my junior psychologist's manual.
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    Burgold--thanks for writing this. For weeks I've been reading about how Beck is Kyle's hand-picked starter and that it really makes sense to see what the 'Skins have got in him regardless of how the preseason plays out. This made sense to me, since Grossman has shown who he is on the field in Chicago and in D.C.

    But then that collapse by Beck against Tampa Bay sent me scurrying for reasons why it wasn't Beck's fault that he failed in that game (2nd string receivers and backs, lack of enthusiasm along the o-line, etc.). Since Beck was going to be the starter, it just couldn't be true that he choked and against back ups, no less.

    Now, with the announcement of Grossman as starter, it helps me to see that the Shanahans really are about making players earn roster spots and not just awarding them based on seniority or potential or whatever other criteria they might have hidden in their private reasoning. While it does seem this type of "prove it to me" coaching style may have taken a back seat in the McNabb situation, it did eventually resurface when Grossman took the reigns late last year. The way they publicly handled that situation may have caused some wincing in the court of public opinion, but the fact that they did eventually come back around to playing the most productive player speaks well of them.
    Last edited by Beauty is Only; 09-06-11 at 09:52 AM. Reason: Composition
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    now we will get to see if preseason momentum means anything once the opening bell sounds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    ...doesnt it seem kind of odd that Beck is this years hand pick by Kyle and yet Rex was last years and thats why he was brought over from Houston? Does it sound like maybe Kyle really doesnt know exactly what he wants?
    I never really saw confirmation from Kyle that he was enamored with Beck, but I did see it written as rumor and hearsay in more than one place. So, I can't confirm that Beck was Kyle's guy. Beck does seem to run the offense reasonably well but folded a bit under pressure in the Tampa Bay game. Could it be that Kyle is mature enough to let his head make the decision over his heart? Did Kyle want Beck to succeed but was convinced by Grossman's (slightly) better preseason performance? Maybe Beck still is the quarterback of the future and when he matures or if Rex flops, he will become the starter. We shall see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beauty is Only View Post
    Burgold--thanks for writing this. For weeks I've been reading about how Beck is Kyle's hand-picked starter and that it really makes sense to see what the 'Skins have got in him regardless of how the preseason plays out. This made sense to me, since Grossman has shown who he is on the field in Chicago and in D.C.

    But then that collapse by Beck against Tampa Bay sent me scurrying for reasons why it wasn't Beck's fault that he failed in that game (2nd string receivers and backs, lack of enthusiasm along the o-line, etc.). Since Beck was going to be the starter, it just couldn't be true that he choked and against back ups, no less.

    Now, with the announcement of Grossman as starter, it helps me to see that the Shanahans really are about making players earn roster spots and not just awarding them based on seniority or potential or whatever other criteria they might have hidden in their private reasoning. While it does seem this type of "prove it to me" coaching style may have taken a back seat in the McNabb situation, it did eventually resurface when Grossman took the reigns late last year. The way they publicly handled that situation may have caused some wincing in the court of public opinion, but the fact that they did eventually come back around to playing the most productive player speaks well of them.
    or they know their preferred choice will eventually get in the game. Butterball isn't good enough to go through an entire season without suffering some slings & arrows.

    let's think about this...how was it a fair competition? Butterball gets to go 1-2 last season, plays through 3 preseason games, and until the meaningless 4th preseason game when EVERY team in the league plays badly. now....I agree Beck blew it. that's just the way it is. but this wasn't an even competition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    when you call him butterball you really cant expect to be taken as someone who is open to conversation.

    there are worse fates. hardly incendiary language.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    didnt say it was incendiary, just you cant expect someone to necessarily want to waste the time trying to debate when its clear you are biased against him.

    its like me saying "convince me that idiot ______ is good"

    hey Mike...I haven't denied that there is an aesthetic/emotional (i.e., non-football) component to my dislike for the guy. in truth...it's not a dislike for Butterball so much as simple frustration with the idea that at the most important position on any team we have serviceable talent...not great talent. I just can't watch him. what can I say? he doesn't strike me as an athlete, doesn't look fluid, makes mistakes, throws an ugly ball IMO. there's not much in his personality I find spiriting...so what the heck.....I'm just not a Sexy Rexy fan. You don't see me swinging from the rafters for Beck.....rather...I'd just like to see him get his chance over 4-5 real games so we actually have some no-kidding foundation for judging him.
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    cool. that's one way of looking at it. another is that a SB QB couldn't decisively separate himself from a player with 4 games experience in the NFL. Rex wasn't all that good during preseason...he just wasn't all that bad either...whereas Beck stumbled noticeably in that last preseason game.
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    like I said...cool! you have a perspective based on preseason performance and I have a perspective based on observed patterns and physical limitations. I don't wish him ill - which is the corner most of you are trying to paint me into. think of it as being forced to drink prune juice should that be the only option when you are thirsty. you drink it...but you don't have to like it.

    we can coexist!
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    or they know their preferred choice will eventually get in the game. Butterball isn't good enough to go through an entire season without suffering some slings & arrows.
    That's quite possible. If we go by what we KNOW, though, Rex did outshine Beck. Maybe ever so slightly, but he did play better in the preaseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    let's think about this...how was it a fair competition? Butterball gets to go 1-2 last season, plays through 3 preseason games, and until the meaningless 4th preseason game when EVERY team in the league plays badly. now....I agree Beck blew it. that's just the way it is. but this wasn't an even competition.
    I haven't looked at a run down of exactly how many snaps Beck and Grossman took during the preseason, but if I'm not mistaken I think they each got nigh on equal playing time (Grossman all through game 1, Beck/Grossman alternating in games 2 & 3, and Beck all through game 4). Beck was given the starting o-line in the 4th game, so his poor play did come behind the first string. As for having to play with 2nd string receivers and backs, even Beck didn't make excuses about that stating that such situations will occur during the regular season due to injury.

    So, what would have made the competition fair? Alternating snaps in a series?

    Do you not agree that Rex outshone McNabb in the games he played in last year? How does his performance in last year's regular season make this an unbalanced competition between him and Beck?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beauty is Only View Post
    That's quite possible. If we go by what we KNOW, though, Rex did outshine Beck. Maybe ever so slightly, but he did play better in the preaseason.


    I haven't looked at a run down of exactly how many snaps Beck and Grossman took during the preseason, but if I'm not mistaken I think they each got nigh on equal playing time (Grossman all through game 1, Beck/Grossman alternating in games 2 & 3, and Beck all through game 4). Beck was given the starting o-line in the 4th game, so his poor play did come behind the first string. As for having to play with 2nd string receivers and backs, even Beck didn't make excuses about that stating that such situations will occur during the regular season due to injury.

    So, what would have made the competition fair? Alternating snaps in a series?

    Do you not agree that Rex outshone McNabb in the games he played in last year? How does his performance in last year's regular season make this an unbalanced competition between him and Beck?
    not even close. RG played the last three games of last season. Beck...somewhat his own fault...was forced to play in the 4th preseason game which HAVE ALWAYS BEEN UGLY. not saying it had to be fair. I'm saying that those who argue that the comparison was based on similar playing time are inaccurate.

    it doesn't matter any more. RG is starting. I'll be watching other things going on (the lines, running game, etc.) so I don't become distracted/scope locked on a player I personally find wanting. not a big deal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    it doesn't matter any more. RG is starting. I'll be watching other things going on (the lines, running game, etc.) so I don't become distracted/scope locked on a player I personally find wanting. not a big deal.
    The running game does look like it could provide some entertainment this year. Shanahan's zone blocking does seem to open up some holes.

    I hope Rex surprises you, Fansince. Redskins fans worldwide want to see this team contend again. In your mind, Grossman seems to be the unlikeliest of heroes. Here's to the unlikely coming true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beauty is Only View Post
    The running game does look like it could provide some entertainment this year. Shanahan's zone blocking does seem to open up some holes.

    I hope Rex surprises you, Fansince. Redskins fans worldwide want to see this team contend again. In your mind, Grossman seems to be the unlikeliest of heroes. Here's to the unlikely coming true.
    well.....I don't hope he fails. I just don't like watching him play!!!! he doesn't look like a QB to me!!!

    in the event...I'm pretty stoked about that running game as well. this offense is gonna sink/swim based on its running game and the short/mid passing game. we aren't going to go deep on many teams IMO.

    all in all....a nice rebuild has been started. no matter the final record I think we are finally on a methodical, positive course. stay out of it Danny!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    well.....I don't hope he fails. I just don't like watching him play!!!! he doesn't look like a QB to me!!!
    What don't you like about his playing style?

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    in the event...I'm pretty stoked about that running game as well. this offense is gonna sink/swim based on its running game and the short/mid passing game. we aren't going to go deep in many teams IMO.
    The running game does appear to be the strength of this offense. Deep passes don't appear to be Kyle's forte'. But, is it a receiving personnel issue or a QB issue or a combination of the two? I know the 'Skins don't have a big, dominating wideout like Houston's Johnson. But, is Grossman that inferior in arm strength/deep accuracy to Schaub? I really don't know. Do you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beauty is Only View Post
    What don't you like about his playing style?



    The running game does appear to be the strength of this offense. Deep passes don't appear to be Kyle's forte'. But, is it a receiving personnel issue or a QB issue or a combination of the two? I know the 'Skins don't have a big, dominating wideout like Houston's Johnson. But, is Grossman that inferior in arm strength/deep accuracy to Schaub? I really don't know. Do you?

    weelllllll....

    1) he lacks mobility. we saw that at the end of last season and we will see it again.

    2) he lacks arm strength.

    3) he's short...not a total disqualifier (yes, I know, Brees)...not an asset either.

    4) he does have a history of turn-overs. he doesn't make good decisions under pressure.

    In truth, I just cringe when I watch his passing motion. Can't explain it...just doesn't look athletic to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    1) he lacks mobility. we saw that at the end of last season and we will see it again.
    Beck is the more mobile of the two. Hopefully, this line will allow Rex the time that a pocket passer needs. If not, we may see Beck sooner than later.
    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    2) he lacks arm strength.
    What's his range? How deep can he go and still be accurate? What's his longest pass in the last few games? Can Kyle effectively scheme around this limitation?
    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    3) he's short...not a total disqualifier (yes, I know, Brees)...not an asset either.
    Perhaps this is part of what makes Rex compete so hard. He's got a bit of the "little man's syndrome". If he were taller, maybe he wouldn't have made it this far.
    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    4) he does have a history of turn-overs. he doesn't make good decisions under pressure.
    Has the frequency of such errors decreased under Kyle Shanahan's tutelage? How is this offense different from the Bears' offense in which he formerly played? Has he matured? Is the sample size of his play in this offense too small to determine whether or not turnovers are more or less likely to occur?
    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    In truth, I just cringe when I watch his passing motion. Can't explain it...just doesn't look athletic to me.
    There's a lefty I know who plays basketball with me occasionally. He has very little experience playing and when he drives to the basket, he seems to be out of control. His shot, by all appearances, should never even glance off the rim. But, somehow, it seems to go through the hoop more often than not. I don't like watching him play, but two points is two points.
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    I disagree that Grossman lacks arm strength. He puts some terrific zip on the ball, and can fling it deep.
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    Quote Originally Posted by burgold View Post
    You see, picking Grossman wasn't the right thing to do because of Rex's experience, or because it was the "safer" pick or even because Grossman has better knowledge of the system, but because reportedly the Shanahan's really liked John Beck.
    This is misleading because they also "really like" Grossman. What coach do you think Grossman played for, before coming to Washington ?
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