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Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1

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    Default WT: ESPN's Jaworski: "With Beck, you can clearly see there's some upside."

    Interesting article, and is what a lot of fans I've seen have said. Good to see it in print from a "respected" analyst.

    ****************************************
    I hope you had a chance to check out the story in Tuesday's paper about how quarterbacks John Beck and Rex Grossman have quieted some of the skepticism about whether they can succeed in coach Mike Shanahan's offense.

    It was impossible to check in with every single media member, analyst and talk show host who has publicly doubted Shanahan's faith in his two passers, but I was able to chat with ESPN's Ron Jaworski about the subject. Jaws, a Pro Bowl quarterback in his day, watched film of the Redskins' first two preseason games before calling last week's game against Baltimore for ESPN.

    Jaworski admitted that Beck and Grossman have been better than anticipated, at least in his opinion.

    He wouldn't say who he believes should start, but he did say:

    "They know what they have in Rex. With Beck, you can clearly see there’s some upside."

    Only a few of Jaws' quotes made Tuesday's story, so I'm posting more of his thoughts below. I found them interesting, and I hope you do, too:

    "Any concerns should be quieted. I think the regular season will determine if they could be silenced. I think if you put the body of work of both quarterbacks together, you get a very efficient job. I think that’s what Mike Shanahan is looking for. You’re not going to throw for 400 yards, but manage the game well, understand what we’re trying to do. If the big play presents itself, go ahead and take advantage of it.

    "I was very impressed with the first three — again they are preseason games, so you always preface it that way — but I like what I saw. Rex, I saw him late last year. I thought there were times when he looked tremendous and there were times where there were the headscratchers again.

    "That’s been kind of the history of Rex. He can make plays that are mind-boggling, wow. And then the next series he’ll just make a mistake. ...He said he’s just got to eliminate the 'Bad Rex.' It’s so true. The guy can make a number of great plays. There’s always just that one head-scratcher. But I think he has a very good grasp of the offense. He ran that 2-minute drill the other night to perfection. You could see he just knows what he’s doing.

    "In regards to Beck, I will admit I was pleasantly surprised. I hadn’t seen John in a couple years in a game — in fact no one has — but I was down on the field pre-game and was watching the guys warm up. I like to see the ball spin. I like to see it come out of their hand. I look at tape and I get an idea. You watch a game on TV and you get an idea. But I just like to see the release, the ball come out of their hand, the mechanics, all those things.

    "I thought John had really improved his arm strength. I knew he had spent a lot of time with Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. When Rodgers came out, he did not have the arm strength he has now. ...You could see the epiphany over a few years. I’m not going to put Beck in that same category, but I’m seeing the similarities. When Beck got in the game they started attacking down the field. They were more aggressive with the playcalling to take advantage of what has become a pretty darn strong arm.

    "I was disappointed that he never really flourished [early in his career with the Miami Dolphins]. Again, you have to be in the right system, the right talent, and people that believe in you. All those things come into play. But I was very impressed by how he threw the football and the accuracty and the velocity. Some of those throws over the middle were into tight windows. He threw with great accuracy with a lot of zip on the ball. Clearly, I am very impressed with the quarterbacking of the Redskins right now.

    "I think people around the league will be skeptical. This is a show-me league. Beck is going to have to come on the field in the regular season and do what he did in the preseason. Again, you could see his movement as well.

    Click link for the rest of the article.
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    coach Mike Shanahan's offense.
    I am getting tired of people saying this. Shanahan hasn't been an Offensive Coordinator in this league for years. Sure, he has some influence. He is the head coach, after all, but this is Kyle's offense. No one called it "Mike Shanahan's offense" when Kyle was calling it in Houston so why do it here?
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    Well, people always called it Joe Gibbs' offense even when Dan Henning was the OC and collaborated with Joe on putting the original playbook together.

    Same with Pacells on defense. It was always Parcells' defense even rthough Bellichick was the DC and was shaping and revamping it.
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    Beck looked horrible tonight.

    I'll be throwing *hit at my TV having to watch Grossman cuz I know exactly when he is going to F up.

    ugggh. can't wait until we get to draft a real QB next year. until then...we are forced to watch second rate talent at that position.
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    James Madison

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    The Bucs game is incredibly difficult to read, and I'm inclined to ignore, knowing that I am skeptical of Rex-Beck (Wreck?). True that their starters weren't playing, but neither were most of ours. We did not try to establish much of a running game at all, and knowing if the receivers were running the correct routes is impossible.

    Beck did not look impressive having said all that, but Lord knows that wasn't a balanced gameplan last night, and I'm hoping it will end up looking unlike anything we will see in the regular season. I'm thinking and hoping they were putting Beck and other players in situations to see how they responded.

    Reading the article again, Jaws can be overly optimistic at times, but if you read between the effusiveness, there are some things that Beck is doing well from a QB's perspective. Let's give him a few games (assuming he is the starter) before we throw things.
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    Preseason only seems to matter to some people when things go badly.

    Goal has it right. Last night was zero barometer of how Beck might fare as a starter in this offense in regular season games. Fact is the man is pretty raw. He's not a finished product. He's going to make some bad reads and throws. But he's also going to make some big-time plays. He made some throws last night that not many can--but they tend to get overlooked in favor of the ones that ended up hitting the ground or a defender's hands.

    I don't know who Shanahan will pick to start next week. I still think it will be and should be Beck, but that's based on what my own eyes tell me, and that by necessity does NOT include a million passes thrown in practice, knowledge of what was supposed to happen on every snap versus what transpired, what agendas were in play from series to series on either sideline, etc.

    I've seen enough in Beck to understand why he's here, and someone like Gabbert is not. The man has skills. Raw skills, to be sure, but undenialbe ones. I want to see him play in real action with a real gameplan and real starters around him. If it's next week, cool. If Shanahan wants to wait and ride out Grossman for a while first, that's cool too. This is a ramp-up year, not a year we're expecting to make noise in January.

    Fact is I'm excited about the Redskins in 2011--the defense, the special teams, the running game, the rhythm offense, all of it--not focusing on what negatives we might be able to find in their quarterbacking situation in any single portion of any single preseason "game."

    I'll seriously parse the QB play, regardless of who starts, against the Giants when both teams have only goal in mind---win. Last night was about anything but.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    Preseason only seems to matter to some people when things go badly.
    Actually, preseason doesn't matter either way. I'm inclined to throw out the Bucs game too ... but then again I'm inclined to throw them all out. I don't think we have any idea what we have in Beck yet.
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    James Madison

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    I dunno Henry. I was ready to completely write off this season as a lost 4-12 type deal where we would be building. I'm still not thinking Wreck (yeah, I'm sticking with that for now) is good enough to make some serious noise, but would I be shocked to be proven wrong? Not at all. I think there's a chance...
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    Is it possible that a coach might use preseason game #4 as a counterintelligence tool? While it may be unlikely, it certainly is possible that a head coach or offensive coordinator could stack the deck in favor of encouraging the perception of Beck as a poor decision maker in some situations, especially in the leadup to a week 1 showdown with a division rival. For instance, prior to the start of a play, Kyle Shanahan could tell Beck, "No matter what, try to get the ball to receiver X on this play."

    Perhaps this is an exercise in wishful thinking on my part as I try to make sense of Beck's poor showing last night. I've already considered the fact that key players were not involved on offense and, as Goaldeje mentioned, that we just don't know whether or not the routes were run as precisely and crisply as they could have been.

    Some have postulated that the decision to start Beck was made some time ago. Perhaps the coaches had already seen all they wanted to see and since the Bucs were not playing their starters, the Shanahans decided to engage in a little deception to make Beck appear as something he's not.

    Is this plausible? Am I reaching? I appeal to BGO's more football-astute members to dissect this hypothesis. Perhaps my desire to see the 'Skins succeed is influencing my reasoning powers.
    Last edited by Beauty is Only; 09-02-11 at 09:04 AM. Reason: Composition
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    I think the sole reason for presesason game #4 is to decide who's gonna get cut to get the roster down to 53. That's it - guys are battling for jobs. I think the fact that Beck played was a pretty good sign that Sexy Rexy will be the starter on 9/11, but you never know with Shananahan.
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    Henry, I'm just curious. Did you see anything in Beck over the course of the preseason that got your attention? Good or bad?

    *

    I know the conventional wisdom is that since Beck played in the 4th preseason game and Grossman sat, that it indicates Grossman is the starter. Not sure I buy that in this case. For one thing, if I were making the call and had decided I WAS going to start Beck, given how little playing time he's had I think I'd be tempted to get him as many reps in as close to "live" action as I could.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    I think the sole reason for presesason game #4 is to decide who's gonna get cut to get the roster down to 53. That's it - guys are battling for jobs. I think the fact that Beck played was a pretty good sign that Sexy Rexy will be the starter on 9/11, but you never know with Shananahan.
    I agree. except with the moniker: it's now Butterball....not sexy rexy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    The Bucs game is incredibly difficult to read, and I'm inclined to ignore, knowing that I am skeptical of Rex-Beck (Wreck?). True that their starters weren't playing, but neither were most of ours. We did not try to establish much of a running game at all, and knowing if the receivers were running the correct routes is impossible.

    Beck did not look impressive having said all that, but Lord knows that wasn't a balanced gameplan last night, and I'm hoping it will end up looking unlike anything we will see in the regular season. I'm thinking and hoping they were putting Beck and other players in situations to see how they responded.

    Reading the article again, Jaws can be overly optimistic at times, but if you read between the effusiveness, there are some things that Beck is doing well from a QB's perspective. Let's give him a few games (assuming he is the starter) before we throw things.

    well...you know I have been a Beck supporter. but at the end of the day...I fundamentally believe in execution. and beck didn't deliver....any more than RG does.

    your points about the game are pretty accurate. I tried to use them in my own mind to qualify/rationalize Beck's performance...but I'm having a hard time doing so. this was his moment to demonstrate skill under diversity. and he didn't do it. I have a low threshold for mediocrity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    Henry, I'm just curious. Did you see anything in Beck over the course of the preseason that got your attention? Good or bad?

    *

    I know the conventional wisdom is that since Beck played in the 4th preseason game and Grossman sat, that it indicates Grossman is the starter. Not sure I buy that in this case. For one thing, if I were making the call and had decided I WAS going to start Beck, given how little playing time he's had I think I'd be tempted to get him as many reps in as close to "live" action as I could.

    widening the aperture a bit: here's what I don't get...just how committed are the Shanahan's to RG? their moves during the off-season did not communicate importance or urgency to me. they didn't rush to resign/extend him. they let him hang in FA. they tacitly elevated the Beck drama. I'm sure they were looking at Locker but the unfolding of the draft undercut initial QB draft plans.

    I don't believe they think RG is the long-term solution. which leads inevitably to: why is that?

    Vis Beck......I don't think they really know what they have.

    it's confusing what they are doing at QB. is there a plan or are they trapped by circumstances...making due with what they have?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    I am getting tired of people saying this. Shanahan hasn't been an Offensive Coordinator in this league for years. Sure, he has some influence. He is the head coach, after all, but this is Kyle's offense. No one called it "Mike Shanahan's offense" when Kyle was calling it in Houston so why do it here?

    so...you don't think Father and son get together off-season after off-season, year after year...to discuss the nuances of the "system"? if you mean KS decides on how the system is employed each game...the "gameplan"....I'm inclined to agree...although even there I'm sure the HC has to approve. if you mean KS has added his own nuances to Daddy's fundamental principles/system....I can agree with that as well.
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    I don't think they're committed to RG at all, to be honest. If they'd really thought he was their starter in 2011, I cannot imagine they would have left him unsigned out there so long. Just too big a gamble.

    I really DO think they believe they can win with Beck. If not immediately out of the gate this year, then soon thereafter. The breadcrumbs (the trade, the immediate resigning to an extension, all the well-documented comments, the Rex gamble, not drafting an available "name" rookie, etc.) all seem to point to that.

    Whether or not they think he's a LONG term franchise prospect I'd like to think they haven't made up their minds about yet. What my gut tells me is they think he's got a pretty good shot at manning the position for a few years productively. What they do to prepare for the NEXT guy---how soon and how high they draft---will depend on how Beck performs once the bright lights come on and he's had a season to show what he's really all about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    Henry, I'm just curious. Did you see anything in Beck over the course of the preseason that got your attention? Good or bad?
    Yeah. He didn't completely suck. He seemed to get the offense and did a solid job of moving the ball.

    That said, it's preseason. Who knows what we are actually seeing? And Beck is a fairly unknown right now. Let's see how he plays once teams actually start taking him seriously.

    Look, I've been a real negative guy the past few years around here (and there) but this offseason I've been very pleased with our moves. Genuinely pleased, not 'they are the Redskins therefore I will find a way to like this offseason' pleased. Even so, I just can't watch a preseason and think I've seen anything substantial. There are just too many ways it's not like the real thing.

    One of my (few) concerns this offseason was what Al is talking about. What the hell are we doing at QB? Ever since Shanahan has taken over our treatment of the QB position has been a mess. We're all over the place. We want McNabb. We don't want McNabb, we want Grossman. We don't want Grossman, we want some 30-year-old nobody's ever heard of who played a half dozen games for the Dolphins four years ago ... what?

    My hope is the guy is competent. And at least he's been that in the preseason, so maybe he will be in the regular season as well. But I'd like to see something resembling a plan at QB sometime. Sooner rather than later would be my preference. And I don't think Beck is part of that.
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    Beck was in a lose, lose situation last night. If he did well, he was supposed too. If he did bad(like it looked) he loses out to RG.

    I'm not ready to throw Beck under the bus. It looked like they purposely called more passing plays than normal which put him behind the 8 ball with little to no help from the running game. Plus he had back-ups at WR.

    Rex hasn't done well either with back-ups at WR or without a running game.

    Still, i'm tired of the competetion. Close your eyes and pick one Shanny and hope they don't crazy with turnovers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    I don't think they're committed to RG at all, to be honest. If they'd really thought he was their starter in 2011, I cannot imagine they would have left him unsigned out there so long. Just too big a gamble.

    I really DO think they believe they can win with Beck. If not immediately out of the gate this year, then soon thereafter. The breadcrumbs (the trade, the immediate resigning to an extension, all the well-documented comments, the Rex gamble, not drafting an available "name" rookie, etc.) all seem to point to that.

    Whether or not they think he's a LONG term franchise prospect I'd like to think they haven't made up their minds about yet. What my gut tells me is they think he's got a pretty good shot at manning the position for a few years productively. What they do to prepare for the NEXT guy---how soon and how high they draft---will depend on how Beck performs once the bright lights come on and he's had a season to show what he's really all about.

    kinda my thinking as well...but its dang hard penetrating what these guys are planning. especially if Beck doesn't produce. nice post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    The Bucs game is incredibly difficult to read, and I'm inclined to ignore, knowing that I am skeptical of Rex-Beck (Wreck?). True that their starters weren't playing, but neither were most of ours. We did not try to establish much of a running game at all, and knowing if the receivers were running the correct routes is impossible.

    Beck did not look impressive having said all that, but Lord knows that wasn't a balanced gameplan last night, and I'm hoping it will end up looking unlike anything we will see in the regular season. I'm thinking and hoping they were putting Beck and other players in situations to see how they responded.

    Reading the article again, Jaws can be overly optimistic at times, but if you read between the effusiveness, there are some things that Beck is doing well from a QB's perspective. Let's give him a few games (assuming he is the starter) before we throw things.
    Was any of our starting O-line on the field last night? If so, for how long?
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