A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1

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    Florida Atlantic

    Default DC Examiner: Redskins release depth chart

    Let's start with a caveat: A depth chart released before the preseason opener means little. Maybe less than that. But it's also interesting to see where players start out here. Can't say there were a lot of surprises and it'll be even more interesting to see next week's depth chart.

    So here are a couple highlights and thoughts:

    1. Rex Grossman is listed as the No. 1 quarterback, with John Beck second. You have to start them somewhere and considering Grossman ended the season with three straight starts and that Beck hasn't played in a game since 2007, this makes sense. Also, I can't imagine after the offseason of Beck that the Redskins would put him first if for no other reason than they wouldn't want to make it seem like they're handing him the position.

    2. Tim Hightower is listed as the No. 1 running back. Why? Because Ryan Torain is injured and won't play Friday. Torain is listed after all the other backs.

    3. Rookie Maurice Hurt already is listed ahead of Selvish Capers at left guard.

    4.Mike Sellers is the fourth tight end and is not included among the fullbacks.

    5. Anthony Armstrong and Leonard Hankerson are listed as the No. 2 receivers behind Santana Moss and Jabar Gaffney, respectively.

    6. Keyaron Fox is listed No. 2 behind London Fletcher. Horatio Blades is third behind Rocky McIntosh and Perry Riley. Yes, that would be one reason why Blades was so upset Monday.

    7. Rookie DeJon Gomes is third at strong safety. He'll also play free safety, but was not listed at that spot.

    8. Brandon Banks is tops at kick and punt returner with Byron Westbrook second on kickoffs and Phillip Buchanon second on punts.



    Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/...#ixzz1UXOfDQG7
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  2. #2

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    Link to the depth chart: http://www.redskins.com/team/depth-chart.html

    Not-so-Sexy Rexy is the top QB, to the surprise of exactly nobody.

    Hurt ahead of Capers is not good news for Selvish. Sellers as the 4th TE is not good news for Mike. Blades is listed behind newcomer Fox, which is probably why he was pouty on twitter yesterday. Kinda surprised Banks is the #1 punt returner, especially with the knee issues he's had.
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  3. #3
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    Grossman is the best quarterback on the team IMO.

    Preseason will just confirm that with Beck the offense is limited in what it can do through the air.

    Some of the other listings also tell us something. One, Mike Sellers may not hiold his own fate at TE. Second, Malcolm Kelly if can't get on the field for that second preseason game is likely toast.
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    Grossman is the best quarterback on the team IMO.

    Preseason will just confirm that with Beck the offense is limited in what it can do through the air.

    Some of the other listings also tell us something. One, Mike Sellers may not hiold his own fate at TE. Second, Malcolm Kelly if can't get on the field for that second preseason game is likely toast.
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    problem with RG is that the offense is also limited:

    - immobile

    - turn-over machine

    - can't make the deep pass
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    James Madison

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    Grossman is the best quarterback on the team IMO.

    Preseason will just confirm that with Beck the offense is limited in what it can do through the air.

    Some of the other listings also tell us something. One, Mike Sellers may not hiold his own fate at TE. Second, Malcolm Kelly if can't get on the field for that second preseason game is likely toast.
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    Not only does Kelly need to get on the field, imo, he needs to show some positive things. He has to not necessarily dominate, but be fairly productive.
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    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

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    Writing is on the wall for Malcolm. Its a shame, all that talent but with the strength of porcelain. Dude could have been amazing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Writing is on the wall for Malcolm. Its a shame, all that talent but with the strength of porcelain. Dude could have been amazing!
    Yes. I've got a buddy who is an OU nut, and who still raves about Macolm's talents. Keeps saying it is bad luck for Kelly so far, and maybe it is, but I don't see how we can keep him any longer, unless there is another IR situation. But even at that point, I think you have to cut bait.
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    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

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    James Madison

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    dcsportsbogDan Steinberg
    Saddest quote of training camp: Malcolm Kelly to Kelli Johnson: "I’m in a big barrel full of snakes and I just can’t get out."
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    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

  9. #9
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    Michigan State

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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    problem with RG is that the offense is also limited:

    - can't make the deep pass
    I wanted to check on this statement. Unfortunately, because he only started 3 games last year he doesn't make this analysis of QBs throwing it deep last year:

    http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...10/going-deep/

    I was able to glean however that of his 70 completions in those 3 games, 9 went for 20 or more yards, or 12.9%.

    For comparison, Donovan McNabb completed 20 of his 275 completions for more than 20+ yards, or only 7.3%, although he hit on one-third of his deep attempts (20 of 60).

    I don't know how many deep attempts Grossman made so I can't compare that percentage.

    Do you have any figures to support your statement or is this just feel based on what you've seen?
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  10. #10

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    Al,
    I don't really get the harsh assessment of Grossman. Set aside his past (we all agree, the Chicago version of Grossman is a seriously flawed QB) and for the purposes of conversation let's focus on what he showed us at the end of the year.

    What I saw was not a perfect QB - but it was pretty impressive play for a guy coming into a game with a bunch of players he'd had almost no time throwing to, behind an offensive line everyone prior to him starting blamed for McNabb's ineffectiveness, and having not made a start in a long, long time. Despite that, the offense moved up and down the field more efficiently than I've seen in a long time. More efficiently than Donovan McNabb could produce, more efficiently than any Jason Campbell performance in a long while, more efficiently than Patrick Ramsey or anyone else the Redskins have had on the field outside of Brunell in recent history.

    I'm not arguing he's 'the answer' at QB. But he played well and in a situation he'd have had plenty of excuses for if he'd not played well. I just don't get all the criticism.
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  11. #11

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    Boone....the criticism is this: RG is a known commodity. I already know he is not a starting QB. I'd rather lose with one of the other guys and at least maintain the illusion that until proven otherwise...there's a chance.

    you know it...you've said it: we need a real QB. choosing among any of these three is like choosing to eat warm, cooling or cold feces...it's still feces!
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  12. #12

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    I agree to an extent...I just think your assessment of Grossman is much more negative than he deserves (at least based on last year). I don't agree he's entirely a known commodity - he's 'more known' - but he had flashes of greatness in Chicago, and what I saw last season leads me to believe he's got his head in a lot better place under Kyle Shanahan's tutelage. I think he is capable of far more production than you're giving him credit for - that's all.
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  13. #13
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    I agree with Boone that Grossman ran the offense effectively the last three games. He also made questionable decisions and turned the ball over too much. How much of that can be attributed to rust is up for debate, and is a question that will be answered soon, one way or another.

    I still feel more comfortable with him behind center. Maybe Beck will change my mind.
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    The thing I'm watching for in this whole Grossman/Beck question is Shanahan's willingness to let performance determine who starts. For all the positives about Shanahan-and I see several I like-his most glaring negative, to me anyway, is in being "hard-headed"-trusting his instincts and going with them in spite of advice or evidence to the contrary. He did it with McNabb in the face of Kyle's opposition. He has a reputation of drafting or selecting FA players based on his impressions of game tapes to the exclusion of what other coaches and scouts have to say. This aspect of his personality as a coach is what I have a serious problem with.

    If Beck looks like a bust-in-the-making will Shanny let go the vice-grip on "this is my guy" enough to let him fall to wherever on the depth chart-or even off the team he might wind up? If he's willing to let how a player performs determine what he does with the guy, then my ability to trust him with the next couple of years of team development will be pretty much solidified.

    If not?....well....I don't know.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by servumtuum View Post
    If Beck looks like a bust-in-the-making will Shanny let go the vice-grip on "this is my guy" enough to let him fall to wherever on the depth chart-or even off the team he might wind up? If he's willing to let how a player performs determine what he does with the guy, then my ability to trust him with the next couple of years of team development will be pretty much solidified.

    If not?....well....I don't know.
    The one thing Shanahan did last season was show little reluctance to pull the trigger. If someone's not performing they will be benched even someone as high status as McNabb. So, while I think your fear is a valid off-season one it is less true once the games count.

    Beck is a mystery. We really know nothing about him other than a short stint on one of the worst football teams in NFL history (that Miami team he was on seriously challenged for an 0-16 season) and his college tape. Right now, he is number two on the depth chart which sounds about right. The 'skins are overdue for finding a qb and I would be overjoyed if Beck turned out to be it, but like most I'm just waiting to see. Honestly, I think Shanny has been praising him for two reasons. First, because he wants to get the kids ego up and second, for a long time he was the only qb on our roster.


    As for Grossman's perf last year, no QB could have looked good behind that line. Too much pressure, too little time. That Rex performed equally or better than McNabb says much.
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    Indiana

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    You have a point, burgold, but I 'm talking about a slightly different aspect. McNabb's problem (along with Haynesworth) was insubordination. That is something Shanahan will not tolerate. McNabb refused to adapt to what both Mike and Kyle wanted him to do and his performance, or lack thereof, I think was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

    Beck, on the other hand, may, and it seems likely, will be perfectly willing to try to do exactly what the Shanahan's want him to do but lack the ability. This shifts things from questioning the players behavior to Shanahan questioning his own judgement as far as assessing a players ability. This is the question I want to see answered to my satisfaction-is he willing to say "Well, I was wrong about this guy and my ability to make him into a starting quality QB." This is the trigger I want to see if Mike Shanahan is willing to pull.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

  17. #17
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    Default Trigger...

    Quote Originally Posted by servumtuum View Post
    This is the question I want to see answered to my satisfaction-is he willing to say "Well, I was wrong about this guy and my ability to make him into a starting quality QB." This is the trigger I want to see if Mike Shanahan is willing to pull.
    Really? Mr. Bench McNugget will have a problem pulling the string on a non-performing QB? From what I've seen, DaddyShan is willing to do anything to advance his 'system'. Right now, SonnyShan is part of that, so there's some compromise - but I don't think personell management is a known problem with Mr. Mike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by servumtuum View Post
    You have a point, burgold, but I 'm talking about a slightly different aspect. McNabb's problem (along with Haynesworth) was insubordination. That is something Shanahan will not tolerate. McNabb refused to adapt to what both Mike and Kyle wanted him to do and his performance, or lack thereof, I think was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

    Beck, on the other hand, may, and it seems likely, will be perfectly willing to try to do exactly what the Shanahan's want him to do but lack the ability. This shifts things from questioning the players behavior to Shanahan questioning his own judgement as far as assessing a players ability. This is the question I want to see answered to my satisfaction-is he willing to say "Well, I was wrong about this guy and my ability to make him into a starting quality QB." This is the trigger I want to see if Mike Shanahan is willing to pull.

    how can anyone know until he starts some games in this offense with these playcallers and these players?
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    Quote Originally Posted by burgold View Post
    As for Grossman's perf last year, no QB could have looked good behind that line. Too much pressure, too little time. That Rex performed equally or better than McNabb says much.
    I agree the line was abysmal at times, but toward the end of the season it got better. Grossman had the "luxury" of an improved unit.

    Rex's biggest problem made the line look worse and it could be the reason he never succeeds here. He has no pocket presence, a step up in the pocket or a roll out would have given him more time. He just didn't seem to feel the pressure. How many fumbles last year? I like Rex going into the season as our starter. He will not be going to the Pro-Bowl, he will have too many turnovers, but he is the best we got at this juncture.

    I refrained from saying anything negative about Beck until I saw what he could do. I saw him in one practice and being the gambling man I am, I would bet the house he does not start 9/11/11 against the Giants! He looked truly abysmal! It was painful. Rex didn't look a helluva lot better, but Beck had the off-season workouts and a week's head start in camp.
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    There is not one source that has watched a Redskins practice that I know of that came away thinking that Beck was the answer at QB for Washington, even for 2011.
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