A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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    Default Redskins’ Moves Beggar Question About Quarterbacks

    The Redskins don’t appear to have a team as constituted that is a threat to win the NFC East. However, the addition of the large draft class, younger free agents and vets acquired via trade would seem to indicate that Washington could be competitive in 2011. An 8-8 finish against a division where the Eagles and Giants look to be better than in 2010 would be a significant accomplishment for a team that was behind 49-0 to the Eagles on Monday Night Football and again lost both games to the Giants while being overpowered physically.

    But that 8-8 finish depends mightily upon getting solid production from the quarterback position. Based upon what we have seen out of Rex Grossman over eight seasons in the NFL and the skill set (limited arm strength) of John Beck, one can question whether staying the course for another season at qb is ultimately what holds this team back from showing improvement on the scoreboard and in the standings.

    Truthfully, I would not rate the Giants chances in 2011 highly if you were to put John Beck in as the starter and move Eli Manning to another team. The Eagles are probably strong enough to make the playoffs with Beck at qb, but not strong enough to win a Super Bowl.

    So, the question is whether another season at 6-10 or similar and higher picks in 2012 is worth holding one hand behind your back so to speak at the most critical position on the field.

    It would seem as if a trade for Kyle Orton would improve the Redskins offense and at 28 give the team a player the team can grow with. Hard to believe but Beck who has only played in a few games 4 years ago is actually almost 2 full years older than Orton.

    While Orton’s detractors would say McDaniels’ pass happy offense in Denver put up stats but not wins, I would say that with Knowshon Moreno at running back and the likes of Jabar Gaffney and Brandon Lloyd as the wideouts that Orton did a very nice job given the talent on hand.

    Orton has his flaws. He is not fleet of foot and is not going to get outside of the pocket and make plays on the run. You have to protect him. And he has shown himself to be a streaky passer with hot and cold efforts sometimes back to back.

    But for the compensation that Denver is talking about and their obvious desire to resolve the qb situation vis a vis Tim Tebow, the Broncos are a motivated seller.

    And even if the Redskins plan is to draft a passer in the 2012 draft, it might be 2013 or 2014 before that player is ready to take over and lead this team to victories in the postseason.

    Orton could be that 2-3 year bridge the team needs to develop the wide receivers and put this team back on the map before we find that franchise qb for the next decade. Because it’s apparent he isn’t on the team right now.
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    James Madison

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    I like your thinking, excepting that Orton might make us good enough (ie, 8-8) to knock us out of contention for some of the better QB prospects in April. True, there may be fewer teams needing QBs, so one could fall, I just get nervous banking on that.
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    I still think we're hanging out for the Luck lottery
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    Well, let's look at last season. A lot went wrong for the Redskins, from the injuries to key players like Landry and Brown to the blowup with McNabb and the endless distraction of Albert Haynesworth.

    Yet the team finished 6-10 and in April was still looking at 9 other teams picking ahead of them.

    So, going with Beck is no guarantee we are going to end up with Andrew Luck.

    We could go 6-10 again and still end up at #9, #10 or #11 and be just outside the cusp of taking a qb in the first round.

    I would rather acquire Orton, do our best in 2011 to improve, and then leverage the draft next year to see where and when is the best time to either draft a qb where we are positioned or move up/down to do so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    I still think we're hanging out for the Luck lottery
    I can't believe more people don't see this. Going into 2011 with this QB situation screams out to me the coaching staff is looking at the 2012 draft
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call me Ismail View Post
    I can't believe more people don't see this. Going into 2011 with this QB situation screams out to me the coaching staff is looking at the 2012 draft
    Agreed. I've been called stupid, moron, etc. for even suggesting it. Its pretty obvious to anyone paying attention.

    Shanahan recently said he was "staking his reputation" on Beck and Grossman. What I think he meant was, he was staking his reception on Luck, and the fact that Grossman and Beck might be bad enough to get him to the Redskins. Ha!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Agreed. I've been called stupid, moron, etc. for even suggesting it. Its pretty obvious to anyone paying attention.

    Shanahan recently said he was "staking his reputation" on Beck and Grossman. What I think he meant was, he was staking his reception on Luck, and the fact that Grossman and Beck might be bad enough to get him to the Redskins. Ha!
    I think it's two-fold. I think Shanny doesn't mind going into the season with who we have because he knows that next year's draft is probably the deepest since '04. So he knows that if Beck/Grossman do terribly, he wont have to panic to get a QB because we'll just be in good position to get a QB in the draft next year. However, I don't think Shanny is trying to lose, he just has no rush to find our franchise QB this year. Even if Rex or Beck do well this year, I'm pretty sure we'll move up to grab one of the top QBs (if we even need to) and if Beck/Grossman play well enough to warrant spot on the team next season, they will be doing so while holding the spot until the new guy is ready to step in.

    I view our situation this year as a win-win.
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    I think the counter is going to be that if we intend to draft a QB in next year's draft, what difference does it make whether we go 8-8 with Orton or 6-10 with Beck/Grossman?

    I'm going into the season with the attitude that I hope one or both of the QBs surprises and leads the Skins to a playoff season, but am prepared for the reality that this team likely isn't going to contend for the division until 2013, after we draft a QB next year and that guy takes his lumps in 2012.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetragrammaton View Post
    I think it's two-fold. I think Shanny doesn't mind going into the season with who we have because he knows that next year's draft is probably the deepest since '04. So he knows that if Beck/Grossman do terribly, he wont have to panic to get a QB because we'll just be in good position to get a QB in the draft next year. However, I don't think Shanny is trying to lose, he just has no rush to find our franchise QB this year. Even if Rex or Beck do well this year, I'm pretty sure we'll move up to grab one of the top QBs (if we even need to) and if Beck/Grossman play well enough to warrant spot on the team next season, they will be doing so while holding the spot until the new guy is ready to step in.

    I view our situation this year as a win-win.
    Sounds like the plan to me. I think everyone in town (Maybe even the danny) has accepted that this is going to be a rebuild year, so if we suck at QB (Which I expect us to do) then we'll just add that piece next year

    Of course, Farve is still floating around out there
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call me Ismail View Post
    I can't believe more people don't see this. Going into 2011 with this QB situation screams out to me the coaching staff is looking at the 2012 draft
    They can look to 2012 all they want but while this roster is not good enough to challenge the Eagles and Giants in the NFCE, it is too good to lose enough to win the Luck Lottery. He will go #1 unless he seriously screws up his Sr year or gets injured in such a way as possibly endanger his career.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    ...He will go #1 unless he seriously screws up his Sr year or gets injured in such a way as possibly endanger his career.
    Is this a flashback from last year when we were talking about Jake Locker?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Agreed. I've been called stupid, moron, etc. for even suggesting it. Its pretty obvious to anyone paying attention.

    Shanahan recently said he was "staking his reputation" on Beck and Grossman. What I think he meant was, he was staking his reception on Luck, and the fact that Grossman and Beck might be bad enough to get him to the Redskins. Ha!
    There aint an ice cubes chance in hell that was Shanahans meaning. Now, I'm not saying he's not looking for a top prospect to play into our hands in next years draft, but to say he's hoping his current QB's stink it up so bad as to better draft position is reading way too far into his statement.

    Shanahan play to loose.... I'm not buying it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    Is this a flashback from last year when we were talking about Jake Locker?
    Funny El, I thought about that as I was writing up that reply and the truth is that I just don't think there is much comparison. Luck strikes me as a different guy and was talked about very differently than Locker was, even at his best. I always had the feeling that Locker to the position of "top" QB because there just wasn't someone the football guys liked better. Everything I read about Luck makes me think this guy is the best because he is just that good and it wouldn't much matter who else was in his draft class. If that makes any sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    Funny El, I thought about that as I was writing up that reply and the truth is that I just don't think there is much comparison. Luck strikes me as a different guy and was talked about very differently than Locker was, even at his best. I always had the feeling that Locker to the position of "top" QB because there just wasn't someone the football guys liked better. Everything I read about Luck makes me think this guy is the best because he is just that good and it wouldn't much matter who else was in his draft class. If that makes any sense.
    I believe Luck is a better player. I just cannot stand it when people term anyone the next so and so. The chances that Luck becomes as everyone believes seems great. I watched him play at least 3 games last year and this kid is something special. But he hasn't even finished his college career and he is labeled a franchise QB in the NFL. He could be the next Art Schlicther.
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    I get your point about Orton BD. However I have to think that with an improved defense and Orton we'd probably get to 8, possibly 9 wins if we're lucky. I think anything over 7 wins probably puts us out of trade up reach of Luck or the second best prospect. To me, that means Orton is pyrite.

    Absent an absolutely impenetrable defense, in his best season Orton isn't going to win a SB. With a genuine franchise QB we'll have a decent shot at winning one. I've lived through a decade of Snyderatto, I can take another 6 win season for a shot at the full Monte.
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    I doubt we win more than 5 games, as in strongly doubt. Yusuf is exactly right Orton is just good enough to get you beat in the long run.
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    8-8 in the NFL gets you nowhere unless you're on the way up with a young qb. Otherwise you miss the playoffs AND get a middle of the road 1st rounder that won't result in a franchise quarterback probability.
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    I would suggest to you that a team with better personnel than last year AND a better passer will finish better.

    As to what that does for the qb position long-term, I don't know if it changes anything.

    Last April the Redskins with a 6-10 record and worst defense in the NFC was left picking at #10.

    So, the chances of landing Andrew Luck in 2012 is slim.

    Beck or more likely Grossman will be able to post 6 wins again, maybe 7 with the improvements in other areas.

    So the argument against Orton, that he will make the team too good to tank is absurd to me.

    At 28 there is no guarantee the Redskins couldn't win with Orton down the road.‎

    And with a better qb all of our young receivers and backs will develop faster.
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    Here is the question in my mind...does it matter who the QB is if we have not improved at the O-line positions?

    That is not to say we aren't better there already. I just don't know. Williams should be better with a year under his belt and by being in better shape this year, as has been reported. I assume Brown is healthier now than last year when we traded for him. Chester is an upgrade at LG where we had the proverbial revolving door last year. Montgomery looked good in late appearances at C last year but how much better is he than Rabach. I don't think any of us know. 'Stieger improved as the year went on but how much ceiling does he and are we close to up against it already? So I guess the question is, can the whole of this group be greater than the sum of the parts?
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    What I see happening with Beck is teams stacking the box with 8 and challenging the Redskins and Beck to prove they can connect down the field.

    Even if the OL and WRs are improved, so much still depends on whether Beck and/or Grossman are up to the job.
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