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    Default Om Field: Redskins vs Steelers Review: QB Jason Campbell

    Coming off a solid-but-forgettable debut against the Baltimore Ravens last week, Redskins starting QB Jason Campbell had an opportunity against the Pittsburgh Steelers on Saturday night to take the proverbial bull by the horns.A good performance against the defending champions would have gone a long way toward quieting the growing undercurrent of concern among Redskins fans that Jason Campbell

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    Wish I had recorded the game. I heard Campbell's statement about Kelly's speed after the game. Guess reason would like to watch the game again to
    see the play again. I was wondering if the throw was that offline or should have the route been run a little more vertical.

    I'm also concerned that Jason may be pressing to much. If he pressed too much he will be aiming his throws versus just throwing the ball in rhythm. It was good to see some deep attempts and hopefully this week can connect on one.

    Got to head to Richmond for meetings. If someone can watch it again and let me know from a different perspective.
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    I thought the long ball to Kelly was just off target; if he thrown the ball more in the direction Kelly was running rather than straight up the field it would have been beautiful.

    The thing I can't fathom is why, if Campbell needs more time with his receivers to get the timing down, doesn't Zorn keep him in for more than two series? I was disappointed that Campell didn't play most if not all of the first half.

    Oh, and Om, you used "untracked." That is one of my pet peeves. I see many writers do it and to me it makes no sense. If you want to get back on target then you get back "on track" (i.e., back on line headed towards your destination). Being untracked to me is the equivalent of being derailed; why would that be good?
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    Quote Originally Posted by riggins44 View Post
    Wish I had recorded the game. I heard Campbell's statement about Kelly's speed after the game. Guess reason would like to watch the game again to see the play again. I was wondering if the throw was that offline or should have the route been run a little more vertical ....

    Got to head to Richmond for meetings. If someone can watch it again and let me know from a different perspective.
    I've watched it about 10 times. I think it's on Jason. Whether Kelly's route was too angled or not, JC had plenty of time to read it and get the ball out front. Where he threw the ball was least 10 yards behind where it needed to be. Even with the underthrow, if he gets it out front and lets Kelly run to it across the field, it's a 60 yard gain. Just a bad pass in my view.

    As to "untracked" ... I feel like I'm back in Mrs. Alexander's 10th grade English class.

    I will not fall back on sports cliche's.
    I will not fall back on sports cliche's.
    I will not fall back on sports cliche's.
    I will not fall back on sports cliche's.
    I will not fall back on sports cliche's ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    I will not fall back on sports cliche's ...
    Dear Master Stevens-

    You have earned a fifteen-yard penalty for improper use of the apostrophe.

    Sincerely,

    Mrs. Alexander
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    Dammit. That woman kills me.

    It's Steven, by the way. I get 5 of those yards back.
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    The thing that used to KILL me watching Brad Johnson was that I never felt that he was able to put the ball in a place where the receiver would be able to make a play on it. His throws were always just a hair ahead of the receiver in a crossing pattern (which forced the player to dive and go down to the ground for the ball), or he would throw behind the receiver (forcing him to jump back for the ball). He would throw it high (making him jump) and he would throw low (making him ditch).

    Yes, it's sounding alot like a Dr. Suess story now.....but, that's precisely what I'm seeing with Jason. I'm just not seeing the ball thrown to these guys in a way that gives them an opportunity to either make a play (such as the first deep ball to Kelly) or to them in stride, which would enable them to gain yards after the catch.

    My jaw dropped when Chase Daniel threw the fade pattern to Marko in the end zone....haven't seen that in a while. We've got the big receivers now.....I'm getting tired of ARE being JC's "go to guy". Get it to the playmakers. Stop dicking around.....make the reads, move on. I imagine that at times the receivers may not being running correct routes....but, that's beginning to be an old song. JC's just GOT to find them. They're in the area, I'm sure. It's not like they're being told "run to the parked Honda and then cut left towards your house".....and then instead are "cutting RIGHT towards the oak tree". They're within shooting distance....throw them the ball!

    Sorry.....beginning to rant. But, it's really starting to feel like he's just not getting it. That he's just not seeing the field. I find myself justifying each week in the same ways......but it's getting old. He's got the physical tools....now he's gotta trust them.

    It's year FIVE for him, right?

    C'mon!!


    HTTR
    Last edited by LoyalSkinsFan; 08-24-09 at 04:55 PM.
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    I have to agree, both with the assessment of JC's pass to "Malcomb" Kelly and the improper use of the sports cliche. Regarding the cliche, I don't mind them so much if they at least make sense. "Untracked" is one of the worst though. Even so, I'll leave that equine corpse be...

    As for the pass, had JC led Kelly properly that was six. No two ways about it in my mind. It was just a badly underthrown pass. Which leads me to wonder whether it's an issue of accuracy, (which I have some strong concerns about with JC) a timing issue perhaps due to Kelly being a bit faster out of his breaks after his surgery, or if JC was maybe expecting him to break less sharply (i.e. Kelly's route running). Really, there's no way for us to know for sure.

    JC may or may not work out but I'm sticking to my guns on my assessment of him. That is, he's looked average most of the time so far, but overall he simply hasn't had enough snaps over his career to know for sure what he really is yet-one way or the other. If he's still not getting it done after this season, at THAT point I'd think it's a decent bet that "he is who we thought he was" and it's time to move on.

    However, giving a QB the boot after the equivalent of just 2.25 seasons worth of starts is way too soon IMHO. Just take a look at Eli Manning and Drew Brees' historical stats for an example of what I'm talking about. Neither of them turned the corner until they'd started 3 or more seasons worth of games.

    In short, I think Danny was incredibly stupid and impatient to try to move JC this offseason without knowing whether he was trading away a future Drew Brees or Rob Johnson. But then, we've gotten used to that with him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalSkinsFan View Post
    The thing that used to KILL me watching Brad Johnson was that I never felt that he was able to put the ball in a place where the receiver would be able to make a play on it. His throws were always just a hair ahead of the receiver in a crossing pattern (which forced the player to dive and go down to the ground for the ball), or he would throw behind the receiver (forcing him to jump back for the ball). He would throw it high (making him jump) and he would throw low (making him ditch).

    Yes, it's sounding alot like a Dr. Suess story now.....but, that's precisely what I'm seeing with Jason. I'm just not seeing the ball thrown to these guys in a way that gives them an opportunity to either make a play (such as the first deep ball to Kelly) or to them in stride, which would enable them to gain yards after the catch.

    My jaw dropped when Chase Daniel threw the fade pattern to Marko in the end zone....haven't seen that in a while. We've got the big receivers now.....I'm getting tired of ARE being JC's "go to guy". Get it to the playmakers. Stop dicking around.....make the reads, move on. I imagine that at times the receivers may not being running correct routes....but, that's beginning to be an old song. JC's just GOT to find them. They're in the area, I'm sure. It's not like they're being told "run to the parked Honda and then cut left towards your house".....and then instead are "cutting RIGHT towards the oak tree". They're within shooting distance....throw them the ball!

    Sorry.....beginning to rant. But, it's really starting to feel like he's just not getting it. That he's just not seeing the field. I find myself justifying each week in the same ways......but it's getting old. He's got the physical tools....now he's gotta trust them.

    It's year FIVE for him, right?

    C'mon!!


    HTTR
    Actually it's not year five, see my post above. Even so, he did have a couple of years riding the bench to get acclimated to the game so that argues against him.

    Regarding the route running, there has to be real trust between a QB and receiver for a QB to pass the ball before the receiver has made his break. After all, if the receiver breaks wrong or doesn't run the route the right way, the QB is likely looking at a pick. Given what we've had to work with in terms of receivers over the past few years, is it any wonder that a QB would have trouble trusting some of them? Especially if said QB had it repeatedly drilled into his head by his coaches during his first few years in the league that INTs are the worst thing ever. The best argument for this IMHO is that JC is not the only QB to play for us over the past few seasons that would pretty much only pass to Moss and Cooley.

    Again, I don't know that Jason will ultimately "cut it". However, absent a complete bust where the player obviously isn't NFL material, I just don't think one should make a decision on QBs, WRs or certain other skill positions until the player has had a decent chance to develop. With that said, it really is too bad that the NFL has never had a real developmental league for any length of time.
    Last edited by Yusuf06; 08-24-09 at 05:06 PM.
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    Jason's comment about not being used to Kelly's speed worried me. Didn't they just finish camp? Hasn't he been throwing to Kelly for weeks? I honestly don't understand how Campbell could be surprised by Kelly's downfield speed at this point. Sure, they haven't spent a lot of time on the playing field together, but shouldn't they have had ample time in OTAs and camp?
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    OK.

    Let's see.

    There was a concern he didnt have receivers in the past and now the receivers are too quick.

    I see.

    So what exactly, will make him an accurate qb?
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    "...that should buy him at least some continued benefit of the doubt, but the fact remains the production has been lacking." -Quote from Mark Steven


    Yusuf tried to defend this point as well, "give Jason more time." I disagree! How long does it really take to see that someone does not possess the ability? Why does this kid continually get the "benefit of the doubt?"

    I have been saying it for over three years now, I do not believe Jason Campbell has the mental capacity to run a quality NFL offense against an NFL defense. He has shown some glimpses, but he is far too inconsistent to compete at a championship level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    Yusuf tried to defend this point as well, "give Jason more time." I disagree! How long does it really take to see that someone does not possess the ability? Why does this kid continually get the "benefit of the doubt?"
    Steve Young has been quoted as saying it takes a minimum of 3 full years in the system to get the West Coast offense. I have seen where Brett Favre said it took him nearly 4 before he really got what Holmgren was trying to do.

    Jason gets the benefit of the doubt from because HoF guys like Young and Favre both took 3x (or more) the time Jason has had in this offense.

    But that is just me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    Steve Young has been quoted as saying it takes a minimum of 3 full years in the system to get the West Coast offense. I have seen where Brett Favre said it took him nearly 4 before he really got what Holmgren was trying to do.

    Jason gets the benefit of the doubt from because HoF guys like Young and Favre both took 3x (or more) the time Jason has had in this offense.

    But that is just me.
    Some GMs and owners are willing to put the time in to let an offense develop. Others are not.

    I think it's obvious by now what type of people make up the management staff (and fan base) of the Washington Redskins.
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    Okay....let me start over. My last post was a bit more from the hip than my usual fare....

    I am typically the kind of football fan who will look at a situation, weigh every bit of information that is available, analyze it to death, absorb my analysis, consider writing it in a thread or post, re-consider it's worthiness, write it down, edit it, post it, re-edit it, re-edit it again, post it and finally wait to see what comments it generates. I have been a fan of this team since the mid-60's and have seen nearly every game played in that time. Each year I am the ultimate glass half-full fan and am the first in any room to say that in any given year this team has as good a chance as any at reaching the Super Bowl....provided things break in the right direction for us.

    Forgive me for not researching my material prior to posting.....perhaps it hasn't technically been five years for Jason. Yes, I have certainly taken into consideration that he's spent time on the bench his first couple seasons learning and studying. Yes, I do applaud (not in a small way) the fact that he often has the good sense to throw a ball into the dirt rather than risk a turnover or stupid play. There have been MANY before him who lacked that gene. Yes, I did completely enjoy watching him play the first eight games (didn't research this one, either...please feel free to edit me) last season without throwing an interception. Yes, I do take into consideration that he's had a number of different offensive coordinators over the course of his college and pro career. Yes, I do consider the fact that many of these issues could very easily be receiver error and not his.

    BUT.....

    ....sometimes you can just look at a guy and tell if he's progressing or not. Don't get me wrong....I'm still hopeful, and I'm still looking for him to become the star I know that he's CAPABLE of being....particularly in a contract year......but I am just not sure I'm seeing the improvement I think he could/should be showing at this point. I don't pretend to be an expert. Steve Young, I'm sure, knows quite a deal more about offensive systems than I do.....but, there's a point where it just has to click. I'm just not sure it's happening with him. Might still.....just not seeing it at this time.

    Not everyone can be a Matt Ryan and step right in and lead in his rookie year. I get that. But, there's a certain command of the field, the team and of the moment (not necessarily the system) that I feel is somehow missing here. To me, Chase Daniels showed more of that "something" to me this past weekend than did Campbell. Numbers aside, cause they can be misleading...particularly when put up against second and third stringers....but, I'm not talking numbers here. I'm talking leadership and the command of the situation BEYOND the system or the plays as they unfold on the field. The ability to control and to adapt at any given moment, as it were.

    I'm not folding up my tent on him.....but I'm concerned. Today. Might feel a whole lot different in a few weeks or months.

    Might not.

    HTTR
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    Neophyte, LoyalSkinsFan has eloquently expressed almost exactly what I am trying to say. I am not sure if you are suggesting that Jason Campbell is capable of becoming Brett Favre or Steve young or that you are just trying to suggest that it takes time to learn the offense, but Jason Campbell is not in the ball park of either of these men.

    I would suggest that by your logic, 3 years for Steve Young and 4 years for Brett Favre to grasp the WCO, it would take Jason Campbell even longer. So again, how long do we give him? If it takes those MVP QB's 3 or 4 years, how long will it take a slower, less masterful QB like Jason Campbell. Do we give a full 5 years or maybe longer?

    I think the coaches know Jason Campbell is not the answer or they would not have tried to dump him in the off-season.

    I will repeat this from high atop my soapbox! I want the Washington Redskins to win!!! I don't care who is behind center! I just want to see us return to the days of old. I love traveling to the Mall to see Super Bowl parades! I just don't see Jason Campbell as the answer no matter how long we give him.
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    I think the "how long does he get?" question is actually pretty easy to answer. For me it's the first 4-8 games of this year. He may get the entire year depending on how the team around him performs, but that's it. This is his year to make it or break it in DC.

    And I think that's more than fair to both him and the team. Both sides have invested too much time, money and effort to pull the plug on him now. All the rest of the pieces are in place. It's Year Two of Zorn, so the familiarity/new offense issue is done. JC has a full season as starter and more under his belt, so the learning curve issue, if not done, is really no longer an excuse. The team around him is good enough to win with--if not Super Bowl level, certainly legitimate playoff level

    The one missing ingredient is a QB who can make plays consistently, and help an older OL along by being quick and decisive with the ball.

    Personally, I don't think Jason is the man to run this offense. I thought that when they brought in Zorn last year and the team for some unknown reason went WCO, and I've seen little since then that's changed my mind. I think in the right offense---like the one Gibbs drafted him to run---JC could be a fine NFL quarterback. I think in this offense, however, he's miscast and is going to struggle to ever be anything more than average ... which, ultimately, will not be good enough to bring him back in 2010.

    I remain hopeful he'll prove me loud wrong on that. He's an easy man to root for, and the Redskins could do one hell of a lot worse than having a guy with his character and disposition become the face of the franchise. If he's going to become that man, however, he's going to have to grab the reins and take charge right from the opening gun against the Giants on 9/12. He no longer has the luxury of wearing the 'potential' label---his time to BE the man has come.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    Neophyte, LoyalSkinsFan has eloquently expressed almost exactly what I am trying to say. I am not sure if you are suggesting that Jason Campbell is capable of becoming Brett Favre or Steve young or that you are just trying to suggest that it takes time to learn the offense, but Jason Campbell is not in the ball park of either of these men.
    I don't know if Campbell is or isn't the guy. No clue. That's why I'm a professional geek and Jim Zorn is a professional coach. What I do know is that Campbell was not drafted by Gibbs to run this type of offense and so presumably if he can run this thing it will take him at least as long as a Young or a Favre.

    Cerrato made the decision to go to this style of play and then did not go get a guy who had run it to help Zorn out. That doesn't sound like Jason's problem to me. Last time I checked, real football guys figured out how to use the personnel they have to the best of their abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    I think the coaches know Jason Campbell is not the answer or they would not have tried to dump him in the off-season.
    While I am tempted to agree with you I have to wonder how much input Zorn has with Cerrato and Snyder. Granted, I don't know anything for certain but I am guessing that if Zorn had any real pull with them we would have seen some serious movement on the offensive line in the off season and I don't mean bringing in a guy who hasn't taken a snap in 3 years. Just a thought there....

    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    I will repeat this from high atop my soapbox! I want the Washington Redskins to win!!! I don't care who is behind center! I just want to see us return to the days of old. I love traveling to the Mall to see Super Bowl parades! I just don't see Jason Campbell as the answer no matter how long we give him.
    I want them to win too. No question. But I am sick of the revolving jersey numbers, lack of loyalty and lack of patience. This kid has been exactly what I want in my QB off the field and has all the physical tools on it. He made Jay Cutler look like the punch line to a bad Conan O'Brien joke in the off season. I already have to deal with an owner and GM who fill that roll admirably, I really don't want a QB who does it too (although frankly that is exactly what Cerrato and Snyder deserve).

    When push comes to shove, I don't see Campbell as the answer either. I didn't see him as the answer when Gibbs traded up to get him, in fact I hated the move as I thought Ramsey should be the guy (shows how much I know about it, I think). But you know what, he is what we have and by god he has won me over. He is about as classy as you can get in the cut throat world of the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    I think the "how long does he get?" question is actually pretty easy to answer. For me it's the first 4-8 games of this year. He may get the entire year depending on how the team around him performs, but that's it. This is his year to make it or break it in DC.
    Agreed, no matter how much it might bug me to do so. I see him getting the the whole season unless he just looks horrendous in the first few games and is the obvious cause of the team losing.
    Last edited by Neophyte; 08-25-09 at 09:23 AM.
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