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  1. #1
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    Default New Camera Technology. Very Cool

    Check this out. Click on a picture in the gallery and then click on an out of focus area.

    DOH!!!!!! Maybe the link would help.

    http://www.lytro.com/
    Last edited by stevenaa; 06-24-11 at 10:31 PM.
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    Is this what you were talking about?

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/digitaltrend...ographyforever
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    Hmmmmmmmm.

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    They are taking the skill out of my art. Technology will be the death of my favorite hobby.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    They are taking the skill out of my art. Technology will be the death of my favorite hobby.

    With all due respect, nah. I have this convo with my photographers all the time. They stress out that no one will want to ever buy portraits anymore because of new digital technologies, improved printing options at home, etc. You still have to have the eye for it. Now it is true that some folks have the eye and can get some training to become reasonably proficient with the new technology, but it is also true there are plenty of people out there who don't have the eye for posing (in this case) or composition, and technology can't change that.

    Sure it can artificially create some of that. But as photographers, you, El, me and others know that feeling when you snap the perfect photo of whatever the subject is. And you know that sure you may clean up a couple of things here or there with photoshop, but by and large, you just got it right. For me, when I shot more, that's what kept me trying, was to get that feeling again.
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    I gotta be honest Goal, this technology scares me a little. Just imagine being able to just point the machine in the right direction and click. No adjusting aperture, ISO, white balance, no waiting for the AF motor to capture the moment... Just point and click without waiting for your lens to catch up. It doesn't matter, you can correct it after the fact. That's just crazy talk!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    They are taking the skill out of my art. Technology will be the death of my favorite hobby.
    Not necessarily, Neo. The Lytro technology may take care of such things as depth-of-field but the element of composition will still be in the hands of the photographer. It can't match the eye-and brain-of the photographer in things like pattern, symmetry, texture, flowing lines-the elements that the photoigrapher uses to make a picture into a work of art.

    It's just a tool to that helps. A lot of people can use a hammer and chisel but how many can use them to create sculpture?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    I gotta be honest Goal, this technology scares me a little. Just imagine being able to just point the machine in the right direction and click. No adjusting aperture, ISO, white balance, no waiting for the AF motor to capture the moment... Just point and click without waiting for your lens to catch up. It doesn't matter, you can correct it after the fact. That's just crazy talk!
    Yes, you can correct it after the fact, but you know the rush I'm talking about when you nail a shot. When you know it is perfect, beautiful, without lots of PS help. Technology can't replace that.
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    Goal and Serv,

    Combine this technology with high speed, high def cameras shooting 60 fps and still photography will cease to exist as we know it. That is what I am driving at. I fretted a little when auto-focus over took manual focus because that took one element of skill out of the equation. Then digital over took film and I fretted more because it got easy to be sure you had good photos instantly. Now they are removing the need for knowledge of ISO, aperture, shutter speed and any number of other technical settings.

    Photoshop has already made a mockery of good composition. forget to account that stupid telephone pole that looks like it is sticking out of your model's head? No problem, just take it out. Goof up the spacing between your models? No problem, just move them closer together. Somebody blink? Easily fixed.

    I know the rush of triggering the shutter on a camera loaded with film, knowing I got what I wanted, followed by the joy of seeing it materialize on a wet piece of paper in a tray in a room lit by an orange safe light. Oh yes, that I know. Since I went digital, that rush has been tempered by the knowledge no one will know if it was me or if it was photoshop.

    Sorry brother but the skill is part of art to me. It is the instinct to anticipate that perfect moment and click the shutter at just the precise time. It is the knowledge to look at the light and know what to set your ISO for in order to use the right shutter speed or correct aperture to create the precise image you had in your head.

    We are approaching the photographic equivalent of a computer mixing Picasso's colors for him or mapping out Michelangelo's hammer strikes when sculpting.
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    Didn't this discussion come about a while back when the cover photo for some juicy mag was shot with video, and then still taken from it to do the cover photo.

    Even my mentor has succumbed to the fact that if you just come close, you fix most anything after the fact, and he's been doing it since the late 60's. He's all about composition, and as others have said, that's still the key IMO.

    IMO, people who have grown up with the technology changes tend to understand the art of it all because they've had to learn how to actually set up the camera, and make the shot look the way they wanted the first time around. The people new to it are most often not really into photography as a art form, and don't understand how to make the camera produce what they want, including the use of depth of field.

    Depth of field is almost a lost part of the art these days. I don't even remember how many focus points and zones my camera offers, but one of the first things I do is set up with a single focal point in most of my modes. It gives me far better control over the image with the type of shooting I tend to do.

    The technology, to me isn't a threat. People with an eye for art can tell the difference when buying a print, or contracting a photographer.
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    It was just a matter of time before this sort of technology hit the market. In two years, it will be an afterthought as all of the manufacturers pay to use the patented technology and supply us with 50 megapixel cameras that have 100 times optical zoom - and anything else that you can imagine. Technology happens and we should embrace it.

    However, there will always be a need for the pros. They will learn to adapt and incorporate the new and exciting changes into their businesses. Milk delivery workers fretted about the invention of refrigerators. Well, they adapted and became repairmen. We heard the same thing about manual typewriters. Eh, I could go on and on.

    Word on the street is that these cameras will come in at about $500 or slightly less. Depending on how the technology is embraced, I could see myself owning one (from one manufacturer or another) before 2012 ends.
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    You guys sound old
    It's not about photographers. Find me a profession where some aspect of the way you 'used to do it' isn't somehow being usurped by technology? I think you'll find it's almost a universal phenomenon. Sure - the camera itself plays a pretty critical role for a photographer. But I have a different take - which is, how cool is it that the average joe/joe-ess out there can snap incredible photos with little to no training and then immediately share them with friends/family/strangers across the world.

    That's pretty damn cool.
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    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1_NhnXMCKw[/video]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    You guys sound old
    That's because I feel old, brother.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    It's not about photographers. Find me a profession where some aspect of the way you 'used to do it' isn't somehow being usurped by technology? I think you'll find it's almost a universal phenomenon. Sure - the camera itself plays a pretty critical role for a photographer. But I have a different take - which is, how cool is it that the average joe/joe-ess out there can snap incredible photos with little to no training and then immediately share them with friends/family/strangers across the world.

    That's pretty damn cool.
    For everyday snap shots it isn't about photographers, no. But unless you are trying make some money with photography like El or I are, it is tough to understand. Ten years ago there just weren't that many folks in the photography game. Digital wasn't huge yet and getting decent digital gear meant selling a body part or a kid so professionals still shot film. Now you can get gear that not only takes a film quality photo but takes ALL the thought out of taking the photo.

    This has created an atmosphere where anyone who spends a grand on gear thinks they are a pro because they have pro gear and hangs a shingle out. Often they are doing it on the cheap and get business based on that price alone. Their work is sub-par and gives the whole industry a bad name. For some reason, in this area, people forget there is a person behind the camera making decisions and those decisions impact the quality of the picture.

    I have a lot of hobbies and have made money a lot of different ways in my 2 score and 4 years on this planet. I can tell you that none of the rest of my money making interests have been impacted by technology as much as photography.
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    Interesting. 2 ways to look at it. You can take whatever you shoot and turn it in to something later on. Or,you can rescue a blown a shot. It looks okay on the demos,but I wonder what it would look like up close and personal on the computer screen. I've actually practiced increasing the depth of field of some of pics by blending them together with an HDR program. but that something else entirely.

    Sometimes,we are hindered by the camera's and/or the lens inherent flaws and this could be one of them. However,that's not to say that one has to take advantage of it. Not always anyway. There are clearly those times when the blur is used to make sure that the emphasis stays on the subject matter of the photograph and I think that's really where the artist in the photographer comes out. As my idol and primary motivation for my pictures Ansel Adams said.

    "It is easy to take a photograph, but it is harder to make a masterpiece in photography than in any other art medium."

    He also once stated about the upcoming technology that it should be looked at as another tool. Which I think more fits the current topic of discussion than even the one above. To me,the skill behind the photography is getting everything you possibly can done right before you ever hit the shutter button. The artistic part,is how you frame that picture in the viewfinder,(which is the way we all see the world these days right? ). That and after you get it on the computer. Obviously we strive to get that "perfect" picture,but as I said before,the camera and lenses have limitations built in to them so some work usually needs to be done after the fact,(and that's where we can really have some fun and that's where this could come in handy).

    Auto focus is okay,but it too has it's limitations. Many times the camera just doesn't focus where you want it too and aside from the old focus then reframe your shot then shoot technique. That's where the skill shows up still. You still have to tell the camera,many times,where to focus. Which is why I like the development of the customization of of focal points in many digital cameras. That and the manual focus is still the option on most lenses and that's where many of us can and do spend a lot of our time. So while it does make things easy to a degree,it's still up to the vision and the skill of the photographer to see and overcome its limitations as well as knowing what and where to emphasize in your picture.

    I see where Boone's coming from and I agree. It's something I talked about to a professional photographer about not that long ago. I said the advantage is,that it's made it affordable for many people to take pictures who previously couldn't afford it. while it may flood the field with a lot of people,it will allow some of those who have that artistic ability to afford to be able to tap in to it. The think they want to be's and the those that can be will weed itself out in the end. Besides,there's always room for more artists. Ansel even stated himself how he would love to come back in 20 years and see what others will have done with some of his photographs. Speaking of Ansel.

    "Photographers are, in a sense, composers and the negatives are their scores. ...In the electronic age, I am sure that scanning techniques will be developed to achieve prints of extraordinary subtlety from the original negative scores. If I could return in twenty years or so I would hope to see astounding interpretations of my most expressive images. It is true no one could print my negatives as I did, but they might well get more out of them by electronic means. Image quality is not the product of a machine, but of the person who directs the machine, and there are no limits to imagination and expression."



    Edit: All the above just my humble opinion as someone who aspires to be a good photographer one day.
    Last edited by PCS; 06-25-11 at 07:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    You guys sound old
    It's not about photographers. Find me a profession where some aspect of the way you 'used to do it' isn't somehow being usurped by technology? I think you'll find it's almost a universal phenomenon. Sure - the camera itself plays a pretty critical role for a photographer. But I have a different take - which is, how cool is it that the average joe/joe-ess out there can snap incredible photos with little to no training and then immediately share them with friends/family/strangers across the world.

    That's pretty damn cool.
    LOL My profession. There are lots of things we do in repair and service that technology has not, nor ever will effect the process. I'll be happy to give details if you'd like.

    It is pretty dam cool thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCS View Post

    Edit: All the above just my humble opinion as someone who aspires to be a good photographer one day.

    Jay, you're too hard on yourself. You're a very good photographer, and the key for any of us in any field is to always aspire to get better at our craft.

    Great post buddy...
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    Some great points being made...and Neo, I can understand your viewpoint. Guess I'd just say that the innovative will always find ways to turn better technology to their advantage and adapt. In business, if you aren't innovating, you're doomed.

    And enjoyed hearing your thoughts Jay...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Some great points being made...and Neo, I can understand your viewpoint. Guess I'd just say that the innovative will always find ways to turn better technology to their advantage and adapt. In business, if you aren't innovating, you're doomed.

    And enjoyed hearing your thoughts Jay...

    The problem is one of perception, imo. I'm going at this from my company's standpoint. We photograph 1 out of two school children in America every year, which is fantastic. However, if Mom (or Dad) decides they can substitute the school portrait we take with something they take with the new amazing technology, our sales are pretty drastically impacted, even if only 2-3% actually follow through with it and come up with something workable.

    As you suggest Boone, it means we need to innovate and come up with some alternative products or services that Mom can't replicate with this new technology. Or, we need to start developing a better photographic team that can WOW Mom so much that she looks at the images and realizes she can't live without them.

    So yes, this should be a good thing, that causes all photographers to step it up even more. We need to cause our customers to realize they can't live without the images we take.

    Having said that (and correct me if I'm wrong), from Neo's perspective, perception matters a bit more for him than it does for me. I have a captive audience, it's not like school systems are going to stop having school portraits done anytime soon. Neo has to have customers some to him, and if some of those potential customers figure they can create fantastic images on their own, they will not go to him, thus never giving themselves the opportunity to be WOW'd by his images.

    I don't envy you, brother. I think your pool of potential customers is shrinking, probably yearly. But someone with your knowledge and skill base will always be needed; you just may have to consider expanding into other areas.
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