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  1. #1
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    Default Who's really to blame for gas prices? (a rant)

    I was just thinking about something while I was on another site listening to people complain about gas prices. They all seemed to be blaming the GOP, saying they are in bed with big oil, and that has led to the gas prices skyrocketing.

    This baffles me. In 2005, just before the Democrats took control of everything but the White House, gas was around $2 per gallon. (I looked it up) Shortly after them coming into the majority power, gas has gone from around $2 a gallon to nearly $4 a gallon. Oddly, the last 2 years Bush was in office, all the media and Democrats were blaming him, like he personally controlled the price of gas.

    Then after Obama won, the Democrats had a full sweep of power, and gas prices have raged out of control. Strangely, on tv and from politicians, there is no backlash. Funny to me since it was the president's fault when it was a Republican, but then it's not when it's a Democrat? Someone explain this to me, I'm baffled.

    The fact is, since Democrats took control, the price of gas has doubled. Not only has it doubled, it's doubled over the course of only a few years. The funny thing to me, is now that the Republicans control the House again, I'm starting to hear idiots on tv blaming the Republicans again for the price of gas. Really? Really really? How the hell does that make any sense?

    Now wiser people, myself included, are well aware that the politicians do not sit there and control the price of gas. No matter how much you want to believe it, it just isn't the case. Many factors go into determining the gas prices. Supply and demand, commodities hedgers/traders, civil unrest, taxes, etc. are just a few of the factors. How anyone can blame one party or the other just blows my mind. Can this many people really be this stupid? Also, if you're going to blame a party, couldn't you at least blame the one holding all the power so you don't look like a total idiot?

    In my opinion, these hedge funds assholes are the driving force behind these absurd prices. I think if there just happened to be an accident that wiped all these cockroaches out, the price of gas would drop up to 50% overnight. So instead of pointing fingers and blaming each other, blame the problem and get these Wall Street jerkoffs to quit hedging on oil. Make a law that says unless you own a refinery, you can't buy/hedge/trade oil. It would eliminate the damn problem, and we'd all be happier.

    The economy is in the ****ter for anyone who hasn't noticed. The higher gas goes, the worse the economy will get. It alters food prices, the price of goods, etc. because they have to use gas to ship all those things. I went to the grocery store the other day and paid $1.88 for ONE GREEN BELL PEPPER! This might not be a big deal depending on where you live, but when I was making chili over the winter, these same peppers were going for $0.59 a piece. Now the sale prices are more than double that.

    As long as we let these guys control our gas prices for their personal gain, the further in the hole we go as a country. Demand is dropping to 20 year lows according to the latest reports. In theory, that should be driving the price of oil down. Instead, it closed again at near record highs yesterday. It's out of control, and something needs to be done.

    Due to my inability to work, my family is on food stamps right now. We have been on them over a year. We used to have enough to buy food for the entire month, and still have a few dollars left at the end of the month. Now for the past 3-4 months, it has gotten worse. Things are so bad now, that we ran out of food stamps around the 20th last month, and had to start going to food closets to get food. The food cost is killing people, and it's all tied in with these hedgers.

    This month, we have wised up a little and started buying store brands almost exclusively, buying more in bulk, and cutting out a lot of wants. As you can imagine, cutting out wants sucks when you have kids that don't understand necessity. The worst thing about this mess, is while the price of food continues to spiral out of control, they have not raised food stamps a dime. It's getting to the point where it will only be able to provide a week or two of food instead of a month's worth. It needs to be stopped.
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  2. #2

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    James Madison

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    So in the middle of your post, you tell us people are stupid for blaming political parties, sorta like how you blame the Dems in the first part of your post?



    Dems make an easy target, granted. Their green policies probably do scare the oil companies a little, and perhaps do cause the prices to go up some. And the Repubs probably ARE in the pocket of big oil (as are some of the Dems). But by and large, my understanding (which was more current 3 years ago) is that those who trade futures on oil are to blame. I don't think either party has much to do with the prices, honestly.

    I would love to see our leaders authorize off shore drilling here in the US to drive the prices down, while also getting serious about energy alternatives. We have been ass-raped long enough by the oil companies.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    So in the middle of your post, you tell us people are stupid for blaming political parties, sorta like how you blame the Dems in the first part of your post?



    Dems make an easy target, granted. Their green policies probably do scare the oil companies a little, and perhaps do cause the prices to go up some. And the Repubs probably ARE in the pocket of big oil (as are some of the Dems). But by and large, my understanding (which was more current 3 years ago) is that those who trade futures on oil are to blame. I don't think either party has much to do with the prices, honestly.

    I would love to see our leaders authorize off shore drilling here in the US to drive the prices down, while also getting serious about energy alternatives. We have been ass-raped long enough by the oil companies.
    Re-read what I wrote, I blame the hedge fund douches

    What I was saying about the Democrats in the beginning, is how they want to place blame on Republicans and point fingers, even though it has all happened on their watch. I was trying to say if they want to place blame on political parties, than the logical finger pointing should be at themselves since they are the ones in power. I never said they are to blame, it was a theoretical statement based on their own flawed logic on the matter.

    I agree with you on the drilling. The green side of the argument is to say look at the BP spill, and that it would take 30 years to get oil if we start drilling, blah blah blah. The fact of the matter in reality is that once we put a drill in the ground, the prices will drop sharply. Without taking that initial step, big oil and OPEC know they have us by the balls.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    I took a pic of the gas pump when it was 1.71 and Bush was still in office. I sent it to my Dem friend and he said "thats because Bush has buddies in big oil..blah blah blah" but now that the prices are back up to well over 4 bucks its "Bush and his big oil buddies are the cause for it"

    seems like Bush cant get away from being to blame even though he has been out of office almost a full term.
    You noticed that too? In his first 6 months, Obama and his supporters said you cant undo 8 years in 6 months. Then it was a year, then it was 2 years, etc. I have a feeling if he wins re-election, he will be sitting there in his final year saying you cant undo 8 years in 8 years.

    Obama doesn't want to own anything unless it looks good. Like the budget fiasco that was finally settled. He had absolutely nothing to do with it, but have you noticed how much he's been on tv hyping himself up on what a great job he did? It's nauseating. I hate watching people take credit for something that they didn't do. Where the hell was he when the trouble was going on? Conveniently absent as always. Just like with the health bill. Vanished completely until it was passed, then came out for the signing telling us how great he is.
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  5. #5
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    Air Force

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    Obama's newest invention

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Obama's newest invention

    Lol, I love it.
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    Virginia

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    It's not a political party problem - but the political parties don't help it either.

    Two things - national debt (not deficit, but debt) and the ongoing monetary policy of the fed. The bad news? Don't expect it to change.

    The even "badder" news? Within the next few years, the U.S. will default on her debt - i.e., declare bankruptcy. It will be painful. Very painful. It will be like nothing any of us have seen in our lives.

    The good news? It will take a few years, but we would recover from such a disaster.
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  8. #8
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    Florida State

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    I guess OPEC has nothing to do with it?
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    Not really. We've done this to ourselves.

    For those interested, this video explains it. Just ignore the sales pitch at the end. But this guy has been spot on for many years. If you think he is tough on Obama and current politicians, you should've seen him during the GWB years. It takes about 45 minutes to go through the video, but it is worth the time.

    http://clicks.dailywealth.com//t/AQ/...AQ/AuuCdw/ka0C
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  10. #10
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    of course the politics plays a role in the cost of gas, but its all on the democrats. Anyone who thinks the Republicans would want to raise the overhead cost of all business to benefit a single sector is absurb. Every business requires fuel.

    The dems however view fuel use as bad, and taxes it like a sin to curb usage. And then theres the blended ethenol debacle. If you use small gas machines, and you know of a service station that has access to unblended fuel, get yourself a barrel and horde it. The ethenol blend destroys small gas engines, cars it doesnt really bother too badly.

    The real cost of fuel is on its availability and the stability of its availability, coupled with the demand vs production. One thing Ive heard is if we had more refineries the cost would come down, must be something about production costs. If you are overtiming facilities to keep up with needs, cause the state wont allow new facilities I can see that having an effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasolin...ge_and_pricing there is list of costs arround the globe, and our cost isnt bad compared to them.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    I guess OPEC has nothing to do with it?
    Actually they really don't. When I was younger, I would automatically blame them until I read up and did my research and found out we're getting ****ed by ourselves, not OPEC.

    It really sucks when you sit back and absorb the fact that our gas problem is 100% self created.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamingwolf View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasolin...ge_and_pricing there is list of costs arround the globe, and our cost isnt bad compared to them.
    Our cost is horrible compared to Venezuela
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    I guess OPEC has nothing to do with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamingwolf View Post
    The real cost of fuel is on its availability and the stability of its availability, coupled with the demand vs production. One thing Ive heard is if we had more refineries the cost would come down, must be something about production costs. If you are overtiming facilities to keep up with needs, cause the state wont allow new facilities I can see that having an effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasolin...ge_and_pricing there is list of costs arround the globe, and our cost isnt bad compared to them.
    Since OPEC controls supply (around 44% of global production and 79% of global reserves), then how can one claim they have nothing to do with high prices? OPEC has a lot of influence on oil prices, to say otherwise is a bit naive. Do they have as much influence as they did in the past few decades? Probably not, but they still control almost half of the world's oil production, giving them a plenty big stick.


    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy Burner View Post
    Not really. We've done this to ourselves.

    For those interested, this video explains it. Just ignore the sales pitch at the end. But this guy has been spot on for many years. If you think he is tough on Obama and current politicians, you should've seen him during the GWB years. It takes about 45 minutes to go through the video, but it is worth the time.

    http://clicks.dailywealth.com//t/AQ/...AQ/AuuCdw/ka0C
    Can you summarize the video? Can't watch at work.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Since OPEC controls supply (around 44% of global production and 79% of global reserves), then how can one claim they have nothing to do with high prices? OPEC has a lot of influence on oil prices, to say otherwise is a bit naive. Do they have as much influence as they did in the past few decades? Probably not, but they still control almost half of the world's oil production, giving them a plenty big stick.
    We weren't trying to imply they have nothing to do with the price. I can only speak for myself on this, but the point I was making is that if it was based entirely on OPEC prices, and the federal, state and local governments didn't all have their hands in the cookie jar, and we didn't have hedge fund dip****s on Wall Street, we'd be paying around $2 a gallon. The fact the dollar is weak right now is killing us too.

    The breakdown I saw on Fox Business showed that if the dollar was still valued the same it was this time 2 years ago, our price for a barrel of oil right now would be around $97 a barrel, as opposed to the $120+ it is right now. That isn't OPEC's fault, it's the fault of the government for printing worthless money and spending more than we can repay, spending more than we can back, etc. The government has driven down the value of the dollar dramatically.

    All that being said, if the government hadn't killed the dollar and increased fuel taxes, and it wasn't allowed to be hedged on, they said we would be paying around $2.38 per gallon.

    They showed a graph of several countries around the world that have a fuel tax 2-3 times higher than ours, who also have money valued lower than the dollar, and they still pay less or similar prices for a gallon of gas. We're shooting ourselves in the foot.

    If we built a few refineries, put some drills in the ground, quit spending ourselves into oblivion, and quit allowing crude oil to be hedged on, we'd be paying less than half of what we are now. The price of gas affects everything, so it would cause a massive ripple effect that would ultimately raise the value of the dollar, create millions of jobs, and boost the hell out of the economy.

    If they put 10% of the money on these things that they spent on health care, we'd be pumping $1-$2 per gallon gas right now, and the unemployment rate would be considerably lower.
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    Lanky, when you get home, watch it. To summarize the video would do no justice to it.

    We must keep in mind that oil is paid for in dollars. Not francs, pounds, euros, yen, yuan, pesos, etc. When the dollar is de-valued (especially on purpose as it has been for about thirteen years now), the price of oil/gas goes up.

    Want lower prices for oil/gas? Then you better hope that the national debt and deficit woes are tackled soon - very soon. Otherwise, Bernanke will continue to print money and continue to lower the value of the dollar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Can you summarize the video? Can't watch at work.
    Not trying to totally poo-poo it, but, at the end of the day, it's a product being sold by it's creator, presented in a way as to maximize sales.

    Nothing wrong with that.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    Not trying to totally poo-poo it, but, at the end of the day, it's a product being sold by it's creator, presented in a way as to maximize sales.

    Nothing wrong with that.
    So it's a 45 minute infomercial? Did they at least have the decency to pitch it Billy Mays or Ronco style?
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    I did make it clear that the guy is making a sales pitch toward the end. Just focus on the message during the first two-thirds of the video.
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    Sheeesh, so much for a serious look at it. Thanks Ax.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy Burner View Post
    Sheeesh, so much for a serious look at it. Thanks Ax.
    I don't think he took away from the seriousness of it, he was just putting it into perspective.
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    I subscribe to several daily services, but will never buy any of their products. You can get enough info from these daily emails and when you ignore the sales pitches, there can be some good information on occasion. Some of it is over-hype and over-kill - some of it is very infomative.

    This guy is a bit much at times, but a lot of what he says can happen at some point. Back in 2004, he predicted that two major auto manufacturers would go bankrupt and singled out GM. Most analysts considered it a ridiculous claim at the time, but I thought it would get to the point where the government would provide a loan - a la Chrysler in 1981. But he basically nailed it.

    Anyway, the message is quite interesting. Do I think these things will happen? Some of it - yes. I'm certain Bernanke will introduce QE3 and it will be a disaster. I really believe we will default before this decade ends. However, I think the pain of it will be severe, but short-lived.
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