A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Injuries or not, this one we gotta have.

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  1. #1

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    Marine Corps Virginia

    Default BGO.C.D.: Philthy

    I must be mad. Out of touch. An anachronism. Hell Im certain of it. I dont believe Michael Vick was wrong. I dont believe he was misguided....

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  2. #2
    2016 BGO Survivor Champ

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    Florida State

    Default

    -------------------------------
    Last edited by Elephant; 02-26-14 at 05:22 PM.
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  3. #3
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    He can earn his redemption by cleaning dog runs and emptying cat boxes. Doesn't have to be football player anymore. If you don't think that earning $1.6 mil can lead to more temptation to revert, then I have not argument for you. That goes against human nature especially for someone of weak character like this poor guy. If I was part of the Humane Society, I wouldn't want him having anything to do with PR...Not until there are some actions demonstrated that match his most recent words. Sorry...Totaly disagree with you.
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  4. #4

    Vescere bracis meis

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    Well, since you make a lot of sense in your take on the subject I have to try to make an argument for the other side here, just because.

    For me it all boils down to this question: Has his heart changed? If you knew me, youd know that Im no bleeding heart in any way shape or form. In fact Im about as far in the other direction as you can get. That said, time in jail will change a man. Ive seen it happen. When youre in a box for two years where youre away from society and cant do what you want to do when you want to do it, thats what we as society considers punishment.

    Ask anyone who has done time and theyll tell you that the worst punishment you can have is time to think. Im not talking about daydreaming on your drive home either. Were talking hours where you literally have nothing to do and all day to do it. It will change you. Some change for the worse and there are countless examples of that. Some change in a way that from that point forward they are just different people. Those people arent going back to jail. They drop the friends they were running with. They arent even going to break the speed limit any more. They certainly arent going to do any of the things that got them in trouble in the first place.

    The money he lost or could make in the future really has no bearing on my thought process here. The fact that other people get away with things I consider to be worse has no bearing on my though process either. I just have to look at the man and what he does now before I make up my mind. Some people will choose not to ever look past what he did, and I understand that. I choose to take the wait and see approach. It will be obvious soon enough if this is just a front or if he has in fact had a change of heart.
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    A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin.
    H. L. Mencken

  5. #5
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    Marine Corps

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    Moved this part from something I posted in the 5 oclock club.....one reason I'll keep coming back to this website is that.....I just can't decide how I feel about Vick. I envy Boone's visceral reaction mostly because it is so cut and dried. I have a family member who did some time at Leavenworth and although his issue involved drugs and not something so horrible as what Vick did, I struggle with the issue of forgiveness and restitution. I've also worked at prisons in a volunteer capacity and maybe that makes the lines less clear for me. The answer for now, for me, is to keep reading your website (in spite of Boone's post I find it unbiased and open) and continue to gather information so that I can make a decision...I really want to have an opinion on this. BTW I would classify myself, if forced to, as a moderate plus I'm the daughter of two Marines and the spouse of a retired Marine so perhaps a little right of moderate.

    To add to my previous post.....another issue that has plagued my ability to make a decision yet is what I see when he is interviewed. As a teacher I recognize someone who is just not very smart at all (used to teach special ed)....I can easily see how he would be taken advantage of readily by those around him who are not thinking about his best interests. The fact that he has Dungy for a mentor probably weighs in his favor in this regard....someone who might actually be able to take him to another level of humanity? I can hear the argument that he can move up in "humanity" doing something else...but football is what he DOES. It seems to me that the parameters surrounding his re-entry into the game are pretty clear......man am I conflicted....go easy on me...I'm new to all of this....
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  6. #6

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    Default

    Hey guys/gals - I appreciate all of the thoughtful posts - they are all welcome here. And we don't judge members by their 'beliefs' here, only based on how they represent those beliefs and opinions. Honest

    The gist of my article (although I'll confess, I may have, as my friend Om suggested, 'put a little extra mustard on it') is that it's really not a matter of 'punishing' Vick - I doubt he can be punished much more than he already has. I simply reject the notion that you can 'make up for' such horrible acts. Is it better to discontinue those acts and not repeat them? Yes - it's better. But it does nothing to change what kind of person you had to be to commit those horrible deeds. Life's not a scale where as long as you do enough good to cancel out the bad, you're a successful human being.

    Actually, the most interesting response so far has been Elephant's in which he pointed out that there are other victims of Vick's crimes, those he owes lots and lots of money to. I'm not swayed entirely by that thought, but I'll admit, it did make some sense to me.

    I particularly appreciate there are a multitude of feelings and 'takes' on this one.
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  7. #7

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    Default

    newbie's post reinforces what I have thought about Vick's situation (the whole thing, not just his reinstatement to football) all along ... that one's personal view of what he did is largely determined by one's own value system.

    That's an obvious statement we all understand intellectually, but not sure we all really understand emotionally.

    Personally, I find dog fighting abhorent. I ache for the animals, feel rage at the humans who perpetrate it and confusion over how they seem to lack the empathy gene.

    I find the way women are treated in much of the world abhorent. The thought process behind treating any fellow human being as property is incomprehensible to me.

    I find it incomprehensible that children are abandoned, beaten, abused, ignored. I did so before I had kids myself ... as now a father it's an issue I cannot even think about without getting knots in my gut.

    I feel these things, in large part, because I was raised in an environment where they were viewed as wrong.

    But I also do things I know others find abhorent. I eat meat. I don't subscribe to any of man's religions. I don't care a whit about any else's sexual orientation.

    I don't find those things abhorent, in large part, because I was raised in an environment where they were considered normal.

    Mike Vick was raised in an environment where dog fighting is, by many, viewed as normal. Does that mean he had no choice but to find it normal? No. But it is a factor--one I think is unfair and unrealistic to dismiss out of hand.

    As to what happens next ...

    None of us will ever know what if anything has changed in Mike Vick's heart. It's possible he's a changed man and his experience has made him view dog fighting and any other form of animal cruelty differently. It's also possible he's the exact same guy he was before he got arrested, and the only thing that's changed is he'll be a hell of a lot more careful about shows in public.

    The truth, I suspect, is somewhere in between. It almost always is.

    Should be he allowed to make a living? Of course. To suggest otherwise flies in the face of the entire legal system we live by---you pay your debt to society as the laws of the day dictate, and then are given the right to get on with your life.

    Should the NFL be forced into the role of social conscience or arbiter? I don't think so--not unless we're going to live in a country where some solomonic regulatory agency is going to dictate to any business who it can and cannot hire based on whatever crimes they have already been punished for in the legal system.

    Me, I don't want to live in that country, but that's another discussion.

    Bottom line ... I do not and will not pretend to know what's in Vick's heart. I think he should be able to play in the NFL. I think the Eagles would be totally justified in demanding in return for hiring him that he be socially active, and use his celebrity to try to bring the realities of dog fighting into the light and hopefully have some small effect on bringing it to an end.

    There will always be people who take pleasure in blood sports, activities that take advantage of those--human and otherwise--who cannot say no. We all know that. But "the rest of us" (admittedly superimposing our own value systems) can do our best to try to reduce their numbers ... and I think Mike Vick can serve a useful role in that regard, particularly given the stage and platform of the NFL.

    Whether his heart is in it or not.
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