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  1. #1

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    James Madison

    Default NYTimes: GE's Strategies Let it Avoid Taxes Altogether

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/bu...nted=1&_r=1&hp


    The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.

    Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.

    That may be hard to fathom for the millions of American business owners and households now preparing their own returns, but low taxes are nothing new for G.E. The company has been cutting the percentage of its American profits paid to the Internal Revenue Service for years, resulting in a far lower rate than at most multinational companies.

    Its extraordinary success is based on an aggressive strategy that mixes fierce lobbying for tax breaks and innovative accounting that enables it to concentrate its profits offshore. G.E.’s giant tax department, led by a bow-tied former Treasury official named John Samuels, is often referred to as the world’s best tax law firm. Indeed, the company’s slogan “Imagination at Work” fits this department well. The team includes former officials not just from the Treasury, but also from the I.R.S. and virtually all the tax-writing committees in Congress.

    While General Electric is one of the most skilled at reducing its tax burden, many other companies have become better at this as well. Although the top corporate tax rate in the United States is 35 percent, one of the highest in the world, companies have been increasingly using a maze of shelters, tax credits and subsidies to pay far less.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/bu...nted=1&_r=1&hp
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  2. #2
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    BUSH/HITLER!!!!!!!!!

    BUSH/HITLER!!!!!!!!!!

    BUSH WITH HIS BUSINESS CRONIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    DARTH CHENEY AND HALIBURTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It's become increasingly obvious that the leftist protestors that squealed all that crap and squealed about going to war during the Bush adminstration were not protesting those actual events, but rather republicans and their polices. Which in a lot of cases look like Obama policies as well

    Gitmo
    Patriot Act
    Warmongering
    Letting business like GE (Who is in bed with Obama) pay no taxes

    Maybe Obama should run as a repub next time
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    Formerly known as ...............Sarge

  3. #3

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    James Madison

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    Ummm, did you actually bother to read the article? It is extremely critical of Charlie Rangel, who, if memory serves, is a Dem.

    I would hope we can all agree that our elected leaders can be bought far too easily.
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    Air Force

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    Sure can



    That's Jeff Immelt. CEO of GE. Also the head of Obama's economic advisory committee. He went with Obama on his vacation to South America
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    Formerly known as ...............Sarge

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    Indiana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post

    I would hope we can all agree that our elected leaders can be bought far too easily.
    In the interests of avoiding unfairly excluding other participants and thereby hurting their feelings.

    (click picture to enlarge)

    [video]http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/129111364980730984.jpg[/video]
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

  6. #6
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    by not paying taxes they save the american consumer the more you raise their taxes the more the consumer pays
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    Quote Originally Posted by redskins26 View Post
    by not paying taxes they save the american consumer the more you raise their taxes the more the consumer pays
    So you're ok with a company making 14.2 Billion dollars not paying ANYTHING in taxes?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    So you're ok with a company making 14.2 Billion dollars not paying ANYTHING in taxes?
    That's what I don't get. I understand that Republicans are for lower taxes across the board, and necessarily, smaller government. That's all well and good. But it's like they want NO government. At all. Nothing federal, local or state.

    I think our current governmental system is bloated and needs serious fixing. But we need something there. And companies that make 14.2 billion need to pay tax on it. I paid taxes on the meager amount I earned, they should pay on what they earned.

    We can debate whether their tax bracket is fair, if we need to reduce the amount, etc. But you all on the Right are OK with GE not paying anything? Really?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    That's what I don't get. I understand that Republicans are for lower taxes across the board, and necessarily, smaller government. That's all well and good. But it's like they want NO government. At all. Nothing federal, local or state.

    I think our current governmental system is bloated and needs serious fixing. But we need something there. And companies that make 14.2 billion need to pay tax on it. I paid taxes on the meager amount I earned, they should pay on what they earned.

    We can debate whether their tax bracket is fair, if we need to reduce the amount, etc. But you all on the Right are OK with GE not paying anything? Really?
    I think you maybe confusing Republicans with libertarians.

    Also your anger over things like this should be placed on the democrats and not the Republicans. The dems want to punish corporations and wealthy people to sate the appetite of their throngs that they drum into a fervor, but they cant really punish the money so they have to create escapes for them.

    Stories like this really make me want a flat tax, you pay this much to the state for making money period. I dont like it cause I like the idea of breaks for doing good work for the community, but the reality is this complicated tax system only helps the rich anyways. So who cares if a flat tax wont kill the rich, it aint killing them now. When taxes kill them they leave, so whats the point of killing them with taxes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamingwolf View Post
    I think you maybe confusing Republicans with libertarians.

    Also your anger over things like this should be placed on the democrats and not the Republicans. The dems want to punish corporations and wealthy people to sate the appetite of their throngs that they drum into a fervor, but they cant really punish the money so they have to create escapes for them.

    Stories like this really make me want a flat tax, you pay this much to the state for making money period. I dont like it cause I like the idea of breaks for doing good work for the community, but the reality is this complicated tax system only helps the rich anyways. So who cares if a flat tax wont kill the rich, it aint killing them now. When taxes kill them they leave, so whats the point of killing them with taxes.

    how many waivers now for Obamacare?

    These people are evil, lying clowns.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamingwolf View Post
    I think you maybe confusing Republicans with libertarians.

    Also your anger over things like this should be placed on the democrats and not the Republicans. The dems want to punish corporations and wealthy people to sate the appetite of their throngs that they drum into a fervor, but they cant really punish the money so they have to create escapes for them.
    Oh I think we can point our anger at both parties. I agree that the Dems get more from me because they actually say they want to end 'corporate welfare' and then obviously do nothing to actually make that happen. To the GOP's credit, they are completely up front with being ok letting corporations get away with stuff like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    Oh I think we can point our anger at both parties. I agree that the Dems get more from me because they actually say they want to end 'corporate welfare' and then obviously do nothing to actually make that happen. To the GOP's credit, they are completely up front with being ok letting corporations get away with stuff like this.
    Exactly...this is a case of both Dems and Repubs with their hands in the corporations' pockets. Kind of ludicrous to fault one party or the other, when these companies donate tons of money to BOTH sides.
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    I am kinda mixed on this one. GE employees thousands of Americans, make them pay more in taxes, those jobs are lost and our rates for their products goes up. However, I do not believe the government should give them a ****ing penny! Then again, they provide many products for our defense and space programs. Yet again, they have had profits go through the roof in an economic down time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    So you're ok with a company making 14.2 Billion dollars not paying ANYTHING in taxes?
    should they pay taxes yes but not at the our expense which is what it would be if they did pay taxes they would just raise the prices on the things we pay for
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    The tax codes need to be rwritten where if they lay off jobs in the us then they need to pay taxes on that or to where it wont hurt the consumer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    I am kinda mixed on this one. GE employees thousands of Americans, make them pay more in taxes, those jobs are lost and our rates for their products goes up. However, I do not believe the government should give them a ****ing penny! Then again, they provide many products for our defense and space programs. Yet again, they have had profits go through the roof in an economic down time.
    I am SO past 'too big to fail' or 'too big to pay taxes' or 'too big to play by the same rules everyone else does.'

    Sorry. That's load of crap. There is no way it's better for society for my one man shop and millions like mine to pay more to the government than a company that makes 14 billion dollars. You think I might want to hire someone someday? It's never gonna happen. But that's ok because everyone can work for GE and make widgets for a living.

    No, I'm done with that. There is no excuse. None. For a company that makes that much money to be leeching off the rest of us. I honestly don't know how the billionaire CEOs have convinced so many people that we should pay them so they can continue their benevolent domination over our industries whereupon they may drop crumbs of prosperity upon the unwashed masses, but it's scary how many people buy into it these days. This is America, dammit. We don't have royalty here.
    Last edited by Henry; 03-29-11 at 03:34 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    I am SO past 'too big to fail' or 'too big to pay taxes' or 'too big to play by the same rules everyone else does.'

    Sorry. That's load of crap. There is no way it's better for society for my one man shop and millions like mine to pay more to the government than a company that makes 14 billion dollars. You think I might want to hire someone someday? It's never gonna happen. But that's ok because everyone can work for GE and make widgets for a living.

    No, I'm done with that. There is no excuse. None. For a company that makes that much money to be leeching off the rest of us. I honestly don't know how the billionaire CEOs have convinced so many people that we should pay them so they can continue their benevolent domination over our industries whereupon they may drop crumbs of prosperity upon the unwashed masses, but it's scary how many people buy into it these days. This is America, dammit. We don't have royalty here.
    First off, I am not sure how you inferred I support "too big to fail". I was against Bush beginning the "bailouts" and then outraged that Obama was going to give out even more. I think those businesses should have been allowed to fail! It would have been tough on our economy, but we could survive. We always have.

    From my quote, I thought I made it clear that I do not believe the government should be giving them a ****ing penny, just tax breaks. Those breaks keep thousands employed. I also believe GE provides a heck of a lot more to our economy than your small business. Not trying to minimize what you do, just stating the obvious. I favor small businesses and always will, especially since I plan to create one when I graduate Law School. I also believe we have to give incentives to those who are quick to pull the rug out from under those they employ if they are taxed more.

    Look, I am no economist. But I know from years of experience that if you threaten businesses with more expenditures, you will likely create fear of future earnings and the first expenditure to go is salaries to those jobs that companies see as expendable. Secondly, the cost for products will rise.

    I am not a fan of big businesses taking advantage of tax breaks and the like, but I am even less a fan of watching jobs go overseas and rising prices. You cannot deny that will happen if these big companies are forced to pay more.

    Look, this is a difficult issue, which is why I stated I am not sure where I fall in this regard. I know we are going to have to raise taxes! I also know we must cut spending. These two issues are going to have to be implemented if we ever plan to balance the budget and get out of this ridiculous debt we have assumed. But where is the balance? That is what I will admit I do not know.
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    I did not intend to attack you specifically, El. You just happened to be the guy who posted when I decided to rant. Please don't think I think ill of you.

    I am not a fan of big businesses taking advantage of tax breaks and the like, but I am even less a fan of watching jobs go overseas and rising prices. You cannot deny that will happen if these big companies are forced to pay more.

    Interesting note from that article in the NY Times.

    While G.E.’s declining tax rates have bolstered profits and helped the company continue paying dividends to shareholders during the economic downturn, some tax experts question what taxpayers are getting in return. Since 2002, the company has eliminated a fifth of its work force in the United States while increasing overseas employment. In that time, G.E.’s accumulated offshore profits have risen to $92 billion from $15 billion.
    I'll say it again. This notion that huge corporations deserve constant special privileges because only they can keep our economy going is a myth.

    I'm not saying I'm as important as GE (not yet anyway ) but a couple million small businesses like mine collectively are. Our whole system is tilting completely out of balance, and no one from either party seems remotely interested in fixing it.
    Last edited by Henry; 03-29-11 at 04:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    I did not intend to attack you specifically, El. You just happened to be the guy who posted when I decided to rant. Please don't think I think ill of you.




    Interesting note from an article in the NY Times.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/bu...g6dD3RP3sleoMw



    I'll say it again. This notion that huge corporations deserve constant special privileges because only they can keep our economy going is a myth.

    I'm not saying I'm as important as GE (not yet anyway ) but a couple million small businesses like mine collectively are. Our whole system is tilting completely out of balance, and no one from either party seems remotely interested in fixing it.
    I just wanted to clarify up front, I was not a fan of any of the bailouts, on either side. No offense taken. I am fully aware of the respect the members of our board hold for one another. I think that's why we have such a special thing going in BGO.

    The stats you provided merely point out that jobs in the US were lost as GE goes global. I think their work force of Americans is under 40% of their total work force. Can you imagine what that number would be if they didn't have the breaks they have? Once again, they should not be getting money from the gov! But we need to do what we can to keep those jobs here.

    I also want to point out that I realize the backbone of this country is the small business owner. I hope that when you decide to go public, you let us know so we can invest!
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  20. #20

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    DW, I was directing my comments towards the people on this board who generally identify themselves as Repubs, not Libetarians.

    El, I would never advocate for higher taxes, but to think that a company as large as GE is not paying ANYTHING? That is reprehensible to me. I am being asked to sacrifice, the company i work for is cutting back, but GE hides behind, if you raise our taxes, we raise our prices and/or fire people? Give me a break.

    Preposterous.
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