A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1

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    Default Redskins Blog:Bruce Allen Explains The Free Agent Evaluation Process

    The evaluation starts with [director of pro personnel] Morocco Brown," he said, "and our pro department will have written up every player in the league. We'll start doing film review with the entire coaching staff on each player.

    "Mike likes involving all of the assistants and getting their opinions," Allen continued, "and maybe they saw one game tape that a scout didn't see. We'll get everybody's opinion, we'll start to work on some models of if Player X fit in here at Position Y, how does that balance our team versus Model B, in which Player X is at a different position? We'll keep throwing those models up, and it really will be a joint decision on how do we add to this football team."

    Allen paused here as if he was finished, then seemed to remember the rest of Weisman's question and said, almost as an afterthought, "Dan's not involved. He'll be informed on what's going on, and he cares, but he doesn't make the decisions on who we sign."
    http://blog.redskins.com/2011/01/13/...ation-process/

    The bolded part is interesting and welcomed.
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  2. #2
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    I think most of us knew that was the case, though.

    In fact, I'm not sure Bruce Allen really said much of anything with this statement. The evaluation starts with Morocco Brown? Yes, he is the director of pro personnel. But how does it start with Brown? Does he identify guys that he feels are an asset to the team? Or does he provide a film breakdown of every player in the NFL?

    Everyone being involved isn't exactly shocking to me, either. But just because Shanahan likes to get everyone's opinion on the matter doesn't mean he actually listens.

    Allen said a lot here without saying much at all.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDawg View Post
    But just because Shanahan likes to get everyone's opinion on the matter doesn't mean he actually listens.
    He'd better be listening it he knows what's good for him. That's what got him in trouble in Denver. Their choices on defense were usually WAY less than stellar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    He'd better be listening it he knows what's good for him. That's what got him in trouble in Denver. Their choices on defense were usually WAY less than stellar.
    good point. but listening to whom? haslet?
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    Shannahan doesnt strike me as a great talent evaluator, he is a superlative OC and a a solid HC but his choices on player personnel have left a lot to be desired, and frankly I think he is daft when it comes to defence. Sadly our fearless leader has chosen him to try and get us on the right path, I just hope he doesnt put us even farther behind.
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    Florida State

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rymanofthenorth View Post
    Shannahan doesnt strike me as a great talent evaluator, he is a superlative OC and a a solid HC but his choices on player personnel have left a lot to be desired, and frankly I think he is daft when it comes to defence. Sadly our fearless leader has chosen him to try and get us on the right path, I just hope he doesnt put us even farther behind.

    I don't want this to get too far off topic because we agree Snyder needs to step in here and hire someone seemingly better than Morrocco Brown or give him a much more extensive staff at the least.

    I will have to say I do not believe for a second that Shanahan will leave this team worse off than it was before he got here. Between what Zorn and Cerrato did, we have no where to go but up. We both agree he made some mistakes, but I thoroughly believe he will make us better.

    Now, how much better is the question. I am afraid the way things look after one season with Shanahan at the helm, that my fears from a year ago when he was hired may be what we are destined to become, mediocre. I envision something along the lines of Dallas when Parcells came back. I know Parcells had a great first season with Dallas, which Shanny has not. The parallel comes in that we will likely end up winning a Division Chamiosnhip or two, a few playoff spots, but ultimately we will not win a Super Bowl with a SB winning retread coach.
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    Michigan State

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    I don't want this to get too far off topic because we agree Snyder needs to step in here and hire someone seemingly better than Morrocco Brown or give him a much more extensive staff at the least.
    Does Morrocco Brown report directly to Snyder or to Allen? If the latter, then no, Snyder shouldn't step in, Allen should hire someone and/or give them a more extensive staff.
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    I remember when Brown was hired, he was considered one of the best in the business. Why all the hate towards him?
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    El I agree with you that that would be the best case scenario.

    However I can easily see a different one, scenario two, we run the exact same defence, don't add a solid NT or any other DL, but just another couple end of benchers/ journeymen.

    we draft a young QB and a WR neither of whom contributes much, dont add any Olinemen because Lick and monty are counted on. we draft a corner to replace clos and suddenly we arent much better than last year we are actually worse, we win less games than we did this year, still have a bottom 10 defence, have an up and down offence under grossman and bingo, snyder boots shanny, leaving us halfway to shannys vision with a lameduck defence halfway between a 3-4 and 4-3 and an unfinished offence. and yes thats worse than when he got here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    I remember when Brown was hired, he was considered one of the best in the business. Why all the hate towards him?
    Not so much condemnation as the need to upgrade, with either someone more proven (pay them, who cares how much they earn), or add more people to his staff because it doesn't seem like he has gotten it done. I know there a varying factors, but it just seems like our player personnel is not getting it done. 8-8, 4-12, and 6-10 in the past 3 seasons.

    China, I would hope that Allen, the GM would bolster the player personnel department. As I said in my response to Lanky, it would appear we need help there. As the owner of the team, I would tell my GM that I am willing to pay whatever it takes for you to go out and get the best in the business who could be available. Not sure if you have seen me say it before, but Ozzie Newsome's right hand man in Baltimore, Eric DeCosta, seems to be a great one. He could be an option, if the money is right.

    Ryman, there is no way Snyder fires Shanahan after only 2 years. No way. Shanahan has a fall guy on the defensive side of the ball. If we have not improved after 3 years, considerably, he is done!
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  11. #11
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    El, I would normally agree with you but I could easily see shanny being gone if we have another huge fall off, the bar for success has been set and we failed to meet it this year and if we do so again this next year?

    I completely agree that we need upgrades in our scouting and personnel dept, its inexcusable for us not to have the best dept in the NFL when our owner hasnt been cheap on anything else.
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  12. #12
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    the process is better but still flawed because the role of the scouts and the depth of the scouting department remains a secondary consideration for Washington.

    other teams are simply spending greater resources to unearth the #5 and #6 round picks that come in and become regular starters.

    the Redskins are doing fine with their #1 picks as Orakpo and Williams look to have bright futures here, but then again picking in the top 15 these are selections that 15 year old kids reading draft summaries on line could make.

    Again, what we need is the demonstrated organizational ability to into Day 2 of the draft with the confidence that we are going to find some players to help the team over time.

    Right now everything after Round 1 seems like a shot in the dark for this team.

    Remember in 2001 when the Redskins drafted Quincy Sanders a safety who missed his senior year in college due to a knee injury and he expressed surprise that ANY team would draft him?

    He never played a regular season down for the team in the base defense.

    A #5 pick right down the chute.

    That selection, though, is emblematic of what has been wrong around Redskins Park.

    The 2008 selection of a similarly challenged Malcolm Kelly in Round 2 has been devastating for a team that was hoping to find the next generation of receiver talent in the draft.

    Cerrato thought taking a player that received a 'draft reject' grade due to knee injuries from other teams in the top 60 picks was a good idea.

    Where the Redskins are trying to build from there is NO room for that kind of roll of the dice on a high pick.

    Let the Patriots or Packers who have a history of drafting well take that kind of chance if they want to.

    With #2 picks, the Redskins need to go for the player that is more of a sure thing.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rymanofthenorth View Post
    El I agree with you that that would be the best case scenario.

    However I can easily see a different one, scenario two, we run the exact same defence, don't add a solid NT or any other DL, but just another couple end of benchers/ journeymen.

    we draft a young QB and a WR neither of whom contributes much, dont add any Olinemen because Lick and monty are counted on. we draft a corner to replace clos and suddenly we arent much better than last year we are actually worse, we win less games than we did this year, still have a bottom 10 defence, have an up and down offence under grossman and bingo, snyder boots shanny, leaving us halfway to shannys vision with a lameduck defence halfway between a 3-4 and 4-3 and an unfinished offence. and yes thats worse than when he got here.
    I can understand your apprehension Ryman. However, I'd like to think** that one of the things Shanny did when talking the job over with Snyder was explaining reality to him, i.e. the team wasn't in any way close to being a contender, from the standpoints of both personnel and culture. To lean on my disclaimer again, I'd like to think** that even Snyder, when provided with the cold, hard truth from a guy with Shanny's pedigree would understand and accept it.

    **Disclaimers are for entertainment purposes only. YMMV.
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  14. #14
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    lol Yusuf, I like your disclaimers. But from the way shanny has acted and the way he traded and signed certain players, I think that perhaps Shanny sold Danny on the whole " you just need the right coach and schemes to be a contender." but who knows.

    I just know that I want this team to start moving in the right direction and I just dont see anything to make me feel that way right now.
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    I found an interesting post about NFL Scouting/Personnel departments on, of all things, a Red Sox fan forum. Go figure. Anyway, the poster dug around the league to find out the structure of NFL scouting.personnel departments and I noticed something interesting. Here's the list.

    Bengals - 2 Execs, call it 4 Scouts, 1 other football assistant. We'll be generous with those "consultants" and call them scouts.
    Patriots - 7 Execs, 8 scouts, 5 other football assistants.

    Arizona Cardinals - 4 Execs, 7 Scouts, 4 Others
    Atlanta Falcons - 3 Execs, 10 Scouts, 2 others
    Baltimore Ravens - 7 Execs, 6 Scouts, 5 others
    Buffalo Bills - No Info, and they don't appear to have a Media Guide on their official site.
    Carolina Panthers - No Info, No Media Guide
    Chicago Bears - 3 Execs, 7 Scouts, 2 Others
    Cleveland Browns - 3 Execs, 11 Scouts, 4 Others
    Dallas Cowboys - No Info, No Media Guide, NO SEARCH FUNCTION ON TEAM WEBSITE. What the hell?
    Denver Broncos - 5 Execs, 7 Scouts, 5 Others
    Detroit Lions - 4 Execs, 8 Scouts, 2 Others
    Green Bay Packers - 3 Execs, 8 Scouts, 3 Others
    Houston Texans - 4 Execs, 9 Scouts, no idea on the Others because they have a broader "Football Operations" category, no separate "Player Personnel" section.
    Indianapolis Colts - 5 Execs, 10 Scouts, 4 Others
    Jacksonville Jaguars - 12 Man Scouting Department - They actually describe everyone under a "Scouts" section, so they don't get cut up like the other teams.
    Kansas City Chiefs - 2 Execs, 9 Scouts
    Miami Dolphins - 4 Execs, 11 Scouts, 2 Others
    Minnesota Vikings - 2 Execs, 10 Scouts, 3 Others
    New Orleans Saints - 3 Execs, 10 Scouts, 3 Others
    New York Giants - 6 Execs, 13 Scouts, 3 Others
    New York Jets - No Info, No Media Guide
    Oakland Raiders - 8 Man Scouting Department
    Philadelphia Eagles - 3 Execs, 10 Scouts
    Pittsburgh Steelers - 1 Exec, 8 Scouts, 4 Others
    San Diego Chargers - 3 Execs, 9 Scouts, 2 Others
    San Francisco 49ers - 3 Execs, 9 Scouts, 4 Others
    Seattle Seahawks - 4 Execs, 10 Scouts
    St Louis Rams - 5 Execs, 11 Scouts, 1 Other
    Tampa Bay Buccaneers - 3 Execs, 11 Scouts
    Tennessee Titans - 2 Execs, 8 Scouts, 3 Others
    Washington Redskins - Media Guide Leaves out Scouting

    The Redskins are one of five tems that don't have scouting info on their site.

    The others, you'll notice, are Buffalo, Dallas, Carolina and the Jets.

    Anybody have any idea why a team might do that? I'm honestly curious because I can't think of a good one off the top of my head.

    Page link:http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/62662...l-departments/
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

  16. #16
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    The Redskins front office and Shanahan in 2010 didn't do a very good job with personnel.

    The McNabb trade should not have been made.

    Haynesworth should have been traded for that #3 or #4 pick to TN before the draft and get rid of a major distraction.

    Jammal Brown was acquired from the Saints but was on the last year of his deal recovering from major surgery. Now that he is rounding into shape, is this going to be a case of the Redskins paying to get him healthy for another team in 2011?

    In the draft, the team admittedly didn't have many early selections but in part that was a result of the McNabb trade.

    Perry Riley may have a future at ILB in the 3-4 but he didn't get much time on the field in a year where the team finished 31st in the NFL.

    Dennis Morris was cut almost right away and one can question why the team drafted yet another TE/FB when there were needs across both lines.

    The #7 picks are what they are, #7 picks. 10% chance of making it in the NFL, so that's shooting fish in a barrel.

    Austin, Cook and Capers. If ONE of them makes it, that's a success story.

    In terms of the free agent class, it was admittedly limited and there was no premiere nose tackle or interior OL available to provide an immediate upgrade.

    But the club COULD have brought in a few players that were more familiar with the 3-4 defense that was being installed.

    Larry Foote went back to the Steelers for reasonable dollars after the Redskins didn't really seem interested in matching his offer. He could have helped this club in 2010.
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  17. #17

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    I still disagree about McNabb - it was a good trade. If he played well this year and took to the Shanahan offense, we'd all be talking about how we ripped the Eagles off. I guess you can argue scouting would have shown he wasn't a great fit, however the number of trades/FA acquisitions that don't work out are proof that scouting is imperfect.

    As far as Dennis Morris is concerned, that was a huge head scratcher. I guess they saw the end of Sellers' career sooner rather than later, and took a chance on finding his replacement. He was a late draft pick, and I believe we traded him to the Rams.
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    This off season is going to be huge. Not just for WHO we pick, but to see if there is an underlying philosophy that is going to start to take shape. If we give up the house to get a "star", it'll signal business as usual and we're screwed.

    If we treat every pick like gold, (which it is due to out lack of them) and they go to the right places, maybe there's some hope.

    The lines and luchpail types are what we need. Whether we go for them or not wll probably decide if we start to climb out of the mess that danny made or if we suck for another 5 years
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    I still disagree about McNabb - it was a good trade. If he played well this year and took to the Shanahan offense, we'd all be talking about how we ripped the Eagles off. I guess you can argue scouting would have shown he wasn't a great fit, however the number of trades/FA acquisitions that don't work out are proof that scouting is imperfect.

    As far as Dennis Morris is concerned, that was a huge head scratcher. I guess they saw the end of Sellers' career sooner rather than later, and took a chance on finding his replacement. He was a late draft pick, and I believe we traded him to the Rams.
    and if we hadnt absolutely sucked the change to a 3-4 would have been a great idea. I dont understand the logic in saying that a clear mistake wasnt a mistake because it COULD have worked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rymanofthenorth View Post
    and if we hadnt absolutely sucked the change to a 3-4 would have been a great idea. I dont understand the logic in saying that a clear mistake wasnt a mistake because it COULD have worked.
    The change to a 3-4 is a good idea - have you noticed the playoff teams remaining? 75% run a 3-4.

    When you get the chance to bring in a probowl QB who's run a similar system, you do it. That's the logic. Did it work out? No - but if I'm Bruce Allen, I'd pull the trigger again this season if I got the opportunity.
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