Stem-Cell Transplant Cures HIV in 'Berlin Patient.'

fansince62 said:

dude...I forget more in a day than you know......

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fansince62 said:

Henry...as someone who holds multiple advanced degrees, whose parents were University professors and whose grandfather was a famous French philosopher....I've absorbed this much: you reap what you sew. it's not like the current anti-intellectual memes appeared out of nowhere.

and as someone who also knows many folks who have worked at agencies such as EPA and heard insider stories on data fudging......and as someone who attended Penn State and has watched all the exchanges on the famous hockey stick publicist......and who heard/read nobel prize winners argue otherwise vis global warming.....it's very hard not to believe that in this super-charged era everything has been corrupted by ideology to some degree.

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My advanced degrees >> your advanced degrees. Nanny nanny boo boo.

servumtuum said:

The point, fansince, is that stem cell research and climate research are not connected and the rejection by classification of "some scientists may have fudged their work therefore if he's a scientist he's not to be trusted" is flat out irrational.

Reason tells me that the antics of the Westboro Baptist Church people does not give me an adequate excuse to mistrust the motives of all Christians and yet that is the message I'm hearing here about scientists.

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even if this were true you would have to have Luekemia and HIV for it to work

Lanky Livingston said:

My advanced degrees >> your advanced degrees. Nanny nanny boo boo.

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how unfortunate then that you can't apply your "higher" learning with any modicum of skill.

servumtuum said:

The point, fansince, is that stem cell research and climate research are not connected and the rejection by classification of "some scientists may have fudged their work therefore if he's a scientist he's not to be trusted" is flat out irrational.

Reason tells me that the antics of the Westboro Baptist Church people does not give me an adequate excuse to mistrust the motives of all Christians and yet that is the message I'm hearing here about scientists.

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you're not following the argument. I understand full well what you are saying about reasoning from the particular to the general...we see the weakness of that mode of thinking all the time with Lanky's comical posts in Sons of Washington.

Per other posts in this thread......I am arguiing that trust in institutions generally - including scientific process - has been systematically undermined. it's been intentionally undercut as a political objective....there has been an unrelenting and unwithering assault on all of our key institutions since at least the 1960s. name one institution that is invioably trusted by the American people. church? state? academia? military? private enterprise? there are none. all have been attacked for multiple reasons/purposes including the general defiance of all authority that gained momentum in the 60s.

One man's opinion who has lived through much of this. An opinion that won't change. I have lived long enough - and, for a period, survived academia long enough -to see and recognize the changes.

now...what would be much more interesting would be a discussion led by Henry, yourself and a few others on what constitutes "truth" in the scientific community these days. This is both a process and an epistemological question. Soooo.....there are some astronomists who argue...on the basis of the Big Bang Theory...that the laws of physics themselves are particular to the Universe they inhabit....that it's a fluke in our Universe that there was more matter than anti-matter...that "dark matter" explains previously unexplainable inter-galactic phenomena (i.e., a new new variable is added to the mathematics to make eveything "whole" again")....etc....etc.....not my field so I'm not qualified to assess where the "knowledge" meter is pegged on assertions such as these. I am interested in how you, Henry and other professionals in the hard sciences think about the metaphysics of what you do and your perspective on the methodologies adopted.

I'm no scientist, but like you I know a lot of them.

But I do know that the scientific process is not an institution. It's a method which provides the means for other scientists to check and, if necessary, correct the conclusions of another scientist. Repeatedly. And yes, I do trust that process, because it takes human imperfection out of the equation. If not immediately then eventually.

Astronomists can argue whatever the hell they want. Their postulations will eventually work themselves out, with or without their help.

As will this claim of a possible HIV cure.

redskins26 said:

even if this were true you would have to have Luekemia and HIV for it to work

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Yikes.

fansince62 said:

how unfortunate then that you can't apply your "higher" learning with any modicum of skill.

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fansince62 said:

I understand full well what you are saying about reasoning from the particular to the general...we see the weakness of that mode of thinking all the time with Lanky's comical posts in Sons of Washington.

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Its really a shame you have to resort to personal attacks in your arguments. You might actually be someone interesting to talk to if you weren't so quick to toss insults around.

fansince62 said:

you're not following the argument. I understand full well what you are saying about reasoning from the particular to the general...we see the weakness of that mode of thinking all the time with Lanky's comical posts in Sons of Washington.

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Its ironic that this is your standpoint, seeing as how you're taking several singular examples, and translating that to a mistrust of all institutions.

I'm not saying that institutions are to be trusted wholeheartedly - our country might not exist without a mistrust of the status quo - I'm just saying an abrupt dismissal isn't the answer either. Just like with the media, you have to pick through the sensationalism and buzzwords for the actual science. Its in there, and I believe its folly to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

fansince62 said:

Per other posts in this thread......I am arguiing that trust in institutions generally - including scientific process - has been systematically undermined. it's been intentionally undercut as a political objective....there has been an unrelenting and unwithering assault on all of our key institutions since at least the 1960s. name one institution that is invioably trusted by the American people. church? state? academia? military? private enterprise? there are none. all have been attacked for multiple reasons/purposes including the general defiance of all authority that gained momentum in the 60s.

One man's opinion who has lived through much of this. An opinion that won't change. I have lived long enough - and, for a period, survived academia long enough -to see and recognize the changes.

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O.K. I understand where you are coming from now.

I do not agree on the assertion of the existence of agenda-based volitional agency as causal element due to lack of testable evidence but that is, as you state, one man's opinion versus another's.

I accept that that is your opinion and that you will not waver from it. I will not attempt to change your opinion.

We now, I hope, can proceed to other things...amicably.

servumtuum said:

O.K. I understand where you are coming from now.

I do not agree on the assertion of the existence of agenda-based volitional agency as causal element due to lack of testable evidence but that is, as you state, one man's opinion versus another's.

I accept that that is your opinion and that you will not waver from it. I will not attempt to change your opinion.

We now, I hope, can proceed to other things...amicably.

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mais bien sur...mon ami!