A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Disagree Disagree:  0
Post of the Year Post of the Year:  0
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-19-09
    Location
    Bethesda Md
    Posts
    6,757
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)

    Default Over The Hill Gang Comparison Revisited To Add Some Truth

    In newspapers and on the internet at various times the Shanahan/Allen Redskins in 2010 have been likened to the George Allen 'Over the Hill Gang' from the 1970's.

    Truthfully, there is nothing in common between the team two regimes except the ages of some of the players.

    George Allen was a defensive coach who came to a team in Washington in 1971 that needed DEFENSIVE help. He was able to trade for players HE HAD COACHED BEFORE and knew would fit into his defensive system.

    Allen could concentrate on defense because the Redskins HAD offensive playmakers. The shelf was not bare as it is today and was when Shanahan held his first press conference.

    The offense Allen inherited already had Larry Brown, Sonny Jurgensen, Charley Taylor, Roy Jefferson and Jerry Smith at the skill positions.

    The line was anchored by 7 time pro bowl selection Len Hauss at center.

    So, in its totality there is NO comparison to the current team and the team from the 1970's.

    The quality of the players was different, the style of the coach was different and the amount of rebuilding that was necessary to be a contender was different.

    And because of the lack of a salary cap, George Allen was able to make trades ignoring the salaries of the players he was dealing and then in turn acquiring.

    George Allen didn't win that Super Bowl in 1973 against Miami, and if he had those Redskins' teams would have received more respect than they have to date from around the NFL.

    But George got the personnel right. He acquired players that fit the schemes he was running and were willing to play hurt.

    There were't any Haynesworths that lingered. Guys that didn't want to play hard and give 100% effort weren't here very long.

    These are all lessons the current regime still has to learn or is in the process of learning.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  2. #2
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    11-17-10
    Location
    I live in the warmest city in the coldest province
    Posts
    2,684
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    UTEP

    Default

    Im curious, I never got the whole "over the hill gang" love, they never won the superbowl and although they were pretty solid they were more like the buffalo bills circa 1990's than our best teams imho. we sold the future and didnt win a superbowl. I guess at least they were solid. thankfully we replaced allen and then Pardee with a young up and coming Coach who worked with a very good GM to build our dynasty in the eighties early nineties. thats what we need now. no more old guys who are on their last legs or coaches who refuse to adjust. I do agree that the over the hill gang was old but they were players who fit what did, so I agree with that part of your post for sure.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  3. #3
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-19-09
    Location
    Bethesda Md
    Posts
    6,757
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)

    Default

    The Redskins had been one of the worst teams in the NFL from the late 1940's to the late 1960's. This team was so awful it tied an expansion Dallas team for the worst record in the league.

    It wasn't until Lombardi arrived in 1969 that anyone was willing to take the Redskins or their future seriously.

    The Redskins before that time can be compared to the 100 loss Nationals. They got no respect and really outside of Jurgensen and the passing game didn't deserve much.

    Lombardi was here only one season before being diagnosed with cancer.

    The team tanked in 1970 back to a 6-8 record.

    Allen coming here in 1971 and took the Redskins to the playoffs immediately and the next year finished 11-3 and won the East. They beat the Super Bowl champion Dallas Cowboys in the NFC title game and advanced to the Super Bowl.

    Right now for comparison sake, look at the Washington Nationals and imagine them winning the NL East, advancing in the playoffs by beating the Dodgers and Braves and then going into the World Series against the Yankees or Red Sox.

    That's the type of electricity that team brought to the city.

    A team that had not been a contender since 1945 beating the Green Bay Packers and Dallas Cowboys in the playoffs.

    While Allen didn't win the Super Bowl here, he never fielded a losing team either.

    And the garbage we have put up with here in recent times with meddling owners and lazy ballplayers that choose when they are going to play was never an issue.

    It was really great to watch a football game with a focus ONLY on the game itself and not the mid-week politics that plague this team.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  4. #4
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    11-17-10
    Location
    I live in the warmest city in the coldest province
    Posts
    2,684
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    UTEP

    Default

    fair enough, as I said it really was before my time so the teams that really resonated with me were the early 80's to early nineties.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  5. #5
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-19-09
    Location
    Bethesda Md
    Posts
    6,757
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)

    Default

    those comparisons are even worse

    Jeff Bostic signed off waivers from the Eagles.

    Alvin Garrett signed off waivers from the Giants.

    Jim Lachey acquired for Jay Schroeder.

    Doug Williams, Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders plucked out of the USFL when it collapsed.

    Those were the days of good personnel management.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  6. #6
    2016 BGO Survivor Champ

    Join Date
    08-01-09
    Location
    My location
    Posts
    11,499
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Florida State

    Default

    Ryman, it was the Over the Hill Gang and my father's obsession with our Redskins that created my love for this team. I can understand since, as you said, it was before your time. But they were icons in DC. Go back through some of the archives here on BGO and look at some of the pop culture that surrounded that team during Allen's reign.

    Do you loathe the Cowgirls like I do? You can thank Allen for that. He was the creator of the hatred for the Cowgirls. There were t-shirts created for fans to support Billy Kilmer or Sonny Jurgenson to be the starting QB. And if you never watched Pat Fischer play, you missed out. He was just a little bit bigger than Brandon Banks but hit hard every down. I was young as all this went on so it took seeing the stories again to refresh my memory, but boy are they fond memories!
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  7. #7
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    11-17-10
    Location
    I live in the warmest city in the coldest province
    Posts
    2,684
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    UTEP

    Default

    El, I just ordered some books on amazon and ive been looking at those archives, I always sort of knew about them, I knew they were all aging vets and that they won a large amount of the time but never won the big one. I recall people talking about how Allen once traded a draft pick twice lol. Ive watched nfl films from those days and Jurgenson will always be a hero to me.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  8. #8
    2016 BGO Survivor Champ

    Join Date
    08-01-09
    Location
    My location
    Posts
    11,499
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Florida State

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rymanofthenorth View Post
    El, I just ordered some books on amazon and ive been looking at those archives, I always sort of knew about them, I knew they were all aging vets and that they won a large amount of the time but never won the big one. I recall people talking about how Allen once traded a draft pick twice lol. Ive watched nfl films from those days and Jurgenson will always be a hero to me.
    I think what gets lost a lot are the characters on that squad.


    Mom got me this one for my birthday this year. It's pretty cool.

    http://www.amazon.com/Washington-Red.../dp/0794830706
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  9. #9
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    11-17-10
    Location
    I live in the warmest city in the coldest province
    Posts
    2,684
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    UTEP

    Default

    sweet im gonna order that too
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  10. #10

    2016 BGO FF Champion
    Ugly American

    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Location
    My location
    Posts
    6,929
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    Those were the days of good personnel management.
    Yeah, who can forget trading next years #1, for a current years #2 to draft Tory Nixon.

    Or Mike Oliphant

    Or Walter Murray.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

  11. #11

    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Posts
    7,590
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    In newspapers and on the internet at various times the Shanahan/Allen Redskins in 2010 have been likened to the George Allen 'Over the Hill Gang' from the 1970's.

    Truthfully, there is nothing in common between the team two regimes except the ages of some of the players.

    George Allen was a defensive coach who came to a team in Washington in 1971 that needed DEFENSIVE help. He was able to trade for players HE HAD COACHED BEFORE and knew would fit into his defensive system.

    Allen could concentrate on defense because the Redskins HAD offensive playmakers. The shelf was not bare as it is today and was when Shanahan held his first press conference.

    The offense Allen inherited already had Larry Brown, Sonny Jurgensen, Charley Taylor, Roy Jefferson and Jerry Smith at the skill positions.

    The line was anchored by 7 time pro bowl selection Len Hauss at center.

    So, in its totality there is NO comparison to the current team and the team from the 1970's.

    The quality of the players was different, the style of the coach was different and the amount of rebuilding that was necessary to be a contender was different.

    And because of the lack of a salary cap, George Allen was able to make trades ignoring the salaries of the players he was dealing and then in turn acquiring.

    George Allen didn't win that Super Bowl in 1973 against Miami, and if he had those Redskins' teams would have received more respect than they have to date from around the NFL.

    But George got the personnel right. He acquired players that fit the schemes he was running and were willing to play hurt.

    There were't any Haynesworths that lingered. Guys that didn't want to play hard and give 100% effort weren't here very long.

    These are all lessons the current regime still has to learn or is in the process of learning.
    true dat. there is no comparison because that team had...even at its advanced stage...some real talent.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  12. #12
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    2,128
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    Yeah, who can forget trading next years #1, for a current years #2 to draft Tory Nixon.

    Or Mike Oliphant

    Or Walter Murray.
    The draft, and especially scouting, back then was not what it is today. Guys like Beathard would do some scouting but quite often either drafted due to gut instinct or need. Bobby liked to gamble on small college guys or guys that weren't in the limelight. Sometimes he won and sometimes he didn't. Because there was no Free Agency, you often drafted for need or traded picks in order to fill holes.

    I'm just glad they weren't ALL misses.

    As for the OTHG, Allen LOVED overachievers. Guys who were smart or would bust their butts just to see the field on Special Teams. He also loved his role players. He had a keen eye for the mixture of talent and desire he needed. That's why his record was so good and why he's in the Hall of Fame.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  13. #13
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    11-17-10
    Location
    I live in the warmest city in the coldest province
    Posts
    2,684
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    UTEP

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    Yeah, who can forget trading next years #1, for a current years #2 to draft Tory Nixon.

    Or Mike Oliphant

    Or Walter Murray.
    we would trade the next years number one fairly often but we had more hits than misses back then. what about our trades? a ruined Schroeder for the guy who became the best LT in our history? what about Oliphant for Byner?

    The one thing about those teams, they had a way of signing guys who fit what we needed to a tee, often when they missed it wasnt about fit, the guys who were busts here didnt go on to be stars elsewhere. our biggest miss was a reach due to need and the funny thing was Heath Shuler was a consensus pick, we werent the only team fooled by him. I would take that old FO and staff in a heartneat.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  14. #14

    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Posts
    7,590
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    we had 12 rounds to get lucky!
    0 0 0 0
     
     

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. WPC: Over the hill all over again?
    By Pappas in forum Sons of Washington
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-13-10, 09:02 PM
  2. Thom Loverro: The gang's all here
    By Sarge in forum Sons of Washington
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-20-09, 07:18 PM
  3. Did Vinny tell us the truth 6 years ago?
    By servumtuum in forum Sons of Washington
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-16-09, 12:32 AM
  4. 1981-82 vs. 2008-09 Redskins, A Comparison
    By Sarge in forum Sons of Washington
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-28-09, 11:40 AM

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •