Shanahan on Hot Seat?

stevenaa said:

I think it's possible they feel McNabb's inaccuracy on short throws, a staple of the WCO, is as big a contributing factor to our problems as other things. I know I do. A QB that can consistently hit quick, short throws accurately in stride, takes a lot of pressure off the Oline. This is something McNabb has always been poor at, and why I couldn't understand signing him in the first place.

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Ding, ding, ding

Boone, what teams did Shannhan build? he took over a pretty solid roster in Denver and only had to add a few pieces, not a complete rebuild.

also I think the problem that several of us have is with the decisions made since they got here. those decisions smack of continuing down the same path.

Overestimating our talent? yup
adding one or two players and not taking the time to evaluate all the players available? yup again.
Signing and depending on injured guys to play key roles? yup
Trying to fit square pegs in round holes ala, Spurrier trying to run a pass heavy offence with a Power running |Oline? yup , this one was the biggest, trying to get an inaccurate big play QB to play in a timing offence, changing the defence, both leading to the worst seasons by the players involved.

for what its worth, I think you are right,I think he will have next season and perhaps one more if we dont have another blowout filled season next year, but at some point we need to start showing some progress.

I don't think there's a single one of us who isn't questioning the decisions Ryman. There is zero disagreement there. But it's not been universally bad, wrong, or misguided. As you yourself have pointed out, Shanahan has gotten a handful of young, productive players on the roster. Should we/could we have done much much more in year one? Yes - I think so.

I really don't disagree. But it all should be viewed in the proper context, which is a year one coaching staff and front office.

As for Shanahan's 'building' of a team, I'm not going to play word games with you. I believe Shanahan is a solid head coach and will eventually see at least as much success here as Joe Gibbs did his second go-round. Lots of teams are loaded with talent, but if you don't have a head coach who is competent, knowledgeable, and capable, you aren't going very far, even with a John Elway or loaded roster. I've heard the same kind of crap regarding Barry Switzer and other coaches who came into positions set up for success. Being set up for success is one thing, actually achieving it is another. My opinion.

And here's the most important point I can make: If you're going to denigrate a coaches past achievements because he 'inherited' lots of positives, you can't very well turn around and gut him after he 'inherits' lots of negatives and can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse overnight.

Boone said:

I'm as puzzled by the move and timing of it as you guys are...and I'm not so much 'defending' it as trying to give it some context. Couple of things - I have read a lot of commentary about the 'same old same old' related to this year's decisions. That's a fair comment to make in criticizing Snyder, but Shanahan and Allen have had only a year here and can only reasonably be held accountable for the decisions since they got here.

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But you understand why we're worried right? I mean, you are trying to change the culture, trying to make better decisions, project a new image of competence, and... same old, same old is the result? Yeah, that worries me. I was really hoping Shanahan's professionalism and acumen would save us from the mismanagement we had under Vinny.

But we're seeing the same mistakes. Not a good sign.

Boone said:

When it comes to the Mcnabb decision, firstly we don't know what's going on with him and the coaching staff. They may have given him very specific guidance on what they want to see from him, and repeatedly had him not follow that guidance. I give Mcnabb credit for being a classy guy and saying the right things in public, but that doesn't mean he's doing what he's supposed to be doing or listening to the coaching staff. Somethings not right there, and hasn't been for awhile, and this may have as much to do with those dynamics as wanting to look at Grossman.

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I can agree with this. Which is why a little communication would be nice. Again, just couch it as being a bad fit for Kyle's offense, salvage a little of McNabb's trade value, and move on.

Boone said:

As for Grossman - right now, he's a failed starter. That's who he is. But K. Shanahan apparently thinks he has rehabilitated many of Grossman's previous issues. I am skeptical, but Grossman has enough natural talent to be worth taking a look. I am surprised by the benching of Mcnabb, but I would disagree that the decision to sit him is 'crazy' or proof of coaching 'incompetence'. I think the decision that Mcnabb would not be here after this year was made weeks ago (and I agree with it), and in light of that, we don't have much to gain by continuing to play him (unless you feel a pyrrhic victory against Dallas should be our top priority). If we are going to blow up the QB position after this year, wouldn't it be helpful to know if Grossman CAN serve as a competent back-up, or even temporary placeholder at starte if we somehow do manage to get a young QB stud in the draft?

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Ummm, have you seen the "How Much Do you Hate Dallas?" thread? A lot, is the answer. I don't think there is such a thing as a pyrrhic victory against them. Having said that, it would be helpful to know if Grossman can serve as a back up. But Rex as a mentor? That doesn't scare you at all? Really? I think some of the other QB options in free agency may be better than Rex. But it is possible I'm wrong (my wife confirms this happens from time to time), I suppose we will see.

Boone said:

I also disagree this season has been a total disaster. We've seen the team able to mount an effective running game, and we've seen them do it with a mostly crap offensive line. That gives me some hope for the future. We've seen some young talent emerge and play well - not as much as I'd have liked to have seen, but we've seen some of it. And despite all the hand-wringing over the lack of progress overall, we have won more games than last year and with a reduction in some of the ridiculous mistakes at crucial game moments, could potentially have gotten to a .500 record this year. Have I liked what I've seen? Nope. But Shanahan was out of coaching for a bit, and I expect things to improve. The other thing I've noted, and which most totally ignore, is that the players appear to mostly still be on board with coaches. I think that's also a positive sign.

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Your last sentence is what worries me. Apparently, from some reports I thought I saw yesterday, the players were not thrilled with the benching of McNabb. Shanahan does get marks in my book for holding the team together through this year, but if he loses them at the end, not sure that's a victory.

As for the reduction of mistakes, I can agree with that as well, our record could, or even should, be better than it is. But how much of that should be attributed to coaching?

Boone said:

I think the idea that Shanahan gets one year to make the fans feel good, and that Snyder moves on after just a single season, is just PFT fantasy talk. It's not going to happen, and more importantly, it shouldn't happen. Shanahan has built very successful teams in the past, and he might do it here if we can be patient. I think Snyder has hitched his horse to Shanahan and Allen and we're in this thing for the next 4-5 years.

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I don't think it should happen either. I also don't think 4-5 years is accurate. If we go get smacked down by Dallas, and then again by Jax and NYG, I think the pressure is on Shanny to win next year. Not 12 games or anything stupid, but at least 7-9. We need to see improvement. And frankly, we didn't see it this year.

You still haven't answered my question that was buried in the dissertation:

Would you be absolutely shocked if you woke up in early January and Shanahan was no longer the coach of the Redskins, either through his choosing or Snyder's?

Good points Boone,

I believe Shannahan is a solid Head coach and an amazing offencive mind, however I dont think he has ever been a great evaluator of talent and his knowledge of defence has proven to be flawed at best.

Im not saying he wasnt a huge part of Denvers success, im saying that parroting the "two superbowl rings" argument that he must therefor be a capable personelle guy doesnt pass muster. He didnt really add a whole lot other than scheme and adding a few players on OLine and IMHO he had a perfect storm of the correct talent in place to implement his system, as well as a HOF Oline coach in Alex GIbbs.

Now as for here, I dont judge coaches by their pasts, I judge them on NOW. I dont think he inherited a terrible team, I think he inherited a team that needed some passion, an infusion of youth on offence and defence, and some depth and a couple starters on defence.

I will concede the year one argument, insofar that we are in year one and often teams do need to make sweeping changes which we did, but those changes consisted mostly of win now moves and almost none were build for the future moves, what will be the argument in year 2? because as far as I can see , in year one we have accomplished nothing at all, we drafted one good OT found perhaps a decent OT , found a decent returner and a #2 or #2 receiver, in return, we will lose 2 probowl Dlinemen 2 linebackers who are just below probowl level and most likely a Corner who is just below elite level as well add to that we will most likely lose a DE we spent a 3rd rounder on who has potential and a rotational DT who has value. thats a net loss. on top of that we will have no third and fourth round picks.

If we have a superlative draft, and excellent Free agency period we can assume that we find 5 starter calibre players and maybe 2 depth players, ordinarily thats gonna be an amazing offseason and likely a catalyst for a playoff run, on this team if we have that next year we will be lucky to win 8 games.

I think we need to hit a reset button but we need someone with a true plan, not a fly by the seat of our pants philosophy.

Boone, I appreciate your efforts to keep us all grounded. I remember being that guy once.

Anyway, I do wish to address on or two things.

Boone said:

I also disagree this season has been a total disaster. We've seen the team able to mount an effective running game, and we've seen them do it with a mostly crap offensive line. That gives me some hope for the future. We've seen some young talent emerge and play well - not as much as I'd have liked to have seen, but we've seen some of it. And despite all the hand-wringing over the lack of progress overall, we have won more games than last year and with a reduction in some of the ridiculous mistakes at crucial game moments, could potentially have gotten to a .500 record this year. Have I liked what I've seen? Nope. But Shanahan was out of coaching for a bit, and I expect things to improve. The other thing I've noted, and which most totally ignore, is that the players appear to mostly still be on board with coaches. I think that's also a positive sign.

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We haven't seen an effective running game this year at all. Our running game is currently ranked 26th in the league, averaging one tenth of a yard better than the Lions. Sure there was a game or two here and there where the running game actually worked. The Titans game. Half of the Bucs game. That's nothing. Every team has a game here and there when the planets align and things just work. If that makes the running game effective, then McNabb was proven effective as well for a good game and a half against the Texans and Eagles.

Frankly, if the powers that be have decided McNabb is not the answer and we are now going into full rebuild mode, then yes, this season was a total and complete waste. Worse even, because we traded away three draft picks for guys that won't be here once a rebuild is done. Any nominal win improvement we could crow about this year falls under that 'pyrrhic victory' category in my opinion.

I think the idea that Shanahan gets one year to make the fans feel good, and that Snyder moves on after just a single season, is just PFT fantasy talk. It's not going to happen, and more importantly, it shouldn't happen. Shanahan has built very successful teams in the past, and he might do it here if we can be patient. I think Snyder has hitched his horse to Shanahan and Allen and we're in this thing for the next 4-5 years.

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I don't think Shanahan is going anywhere, and I don't think he should. Then again, I didn't think McNabb was going anywhere either, nor did I think he should have and it looks like I missed the mark on that, so nothing would surprise me now. I will say that the numerous calls for 'patience' on this board are not necessary, not in the sense that the impatient amongst us are so because we want to see wins. No, I am admittedly impatient, but for signs of intelligence from the front office. We suck so bad these days wins and losses don't even matter to me anymore. I just want our coaches and personnel people to look competent. That's it.

It's not like you and I and plenty of others on this and other boards thought signing McNabb and continuing the 'win now' approach was a brilliant move this past offseason. WE knew that was a bad idea. Sorry, but I shouldn't know more about football than Mike Shanahan. I shouldn't be able to see a huge mistake that he doesn't. It doesn't make me feel smart. It scares the hell out of me.

And so now when it appears that our coach is continuing to make bizzarre moves, the comforting knowledge that he knows more than I do is no longer there. It sure as hell looks to me like he's making things up as he goes along. Maybe I'll be wrong this time. I sure hope so. But I'll tell you, hope is something of which I am quickly running out.

Henry said:

I just want our coaches and personnel people to look competent. That's it.

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That is the biggest disappointment this year for me. I fully expected the one are of improvement would be improved competency, even while expecting a less then stellar product on the field.

Go Deep said:

Just to elaborate on what i said about Gibbs.

He looked like something was going on in that booth that had him mad as hell. I don't think he was reacting to anything going on on the field. I just don't see him getting that look over the game.

You would have to seen it to know what i'm talking about, but he looked like something had him pissed off to the core.

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I'll take a stab at this one.

After hearing Snyder sreaming stuff like "God ****ing dammit!!" about 50 times. a religious man like Gibbs probably had enough....