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Big Al Suspended

Lanky Livingston said:
Ryman, for someone who has supposedly played for a lot of them, you sure don't understand the "team" concept very well.
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snd you apparently suffer some misconceptions vis strategy and good coaching.

can you at least meet half way? AH fouled his own bed...but so did Shanahan.
 
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fansince62 said:
not if your offense stinks, you have no long term solution at QB and you give away yet more draft picks.
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I suppose Shanahan tried to strike a balance between "win now" and "build for the future." He has upped the win total, but you can't really call the season a resounding success. Is it all Shanahan's fault?

The offensive woes are, in part, related to the loss of Portis and Torain. Shanahan also brought in other backs (Johnson, Parker) to try to upgrade the backfield situation. It didn't work out, but you can't say an attempt wasn't made.

The offensive line is now struggling, but Shanahan and Allen did make an effort to upgrade it as well. I seem to recall a preseason article that pointed to the 'Skins' revamped o-line as a weakness turned into a strength due to offseason acquisitions. Injuries have contributed to poor performance in this area. Depth is a problem, but you can't fix everything in one offseason, right?

McNabb is an upgrade over Campbell, but I must admit he's been disappointing (although it is his first year in this system and with this team). But, again, an attempt to improve was made. How many years does McNabb have left? Can a suitable replacement be found and developed between now and the day McNabb leaves Ashburn?
 
I for one won't debate whether or not Haynesworth or Shannahan are at fault for the drama that has been created all season.

I'm going to go back much further...

The Haynesworth acquisition in the first place had a bad smell and taste to it for me from the get go.

a. It was the latest of the Redskins' high profile, big money expenditures for another team's player. How many of those panned out previously in terms of helping the team win on a large and significant scale?

b. Haynesworth had character issues to begin with prior to coming here.

c. Most importantly in my mind, we threw a pile of money at a single player yet again without looking at the big picture - that being that the team was miles away yet from competing seriously for a championship.

Who cares how the situation was handled by Shannahan. It was a mistake to bring him here right out of the shoot. Haynesworth best years would have been played in D.C. helping the team get better and improving, instead of competing for a championship. If I'm spending 100M, I better be darn sure that I'm close to raising the Lombardi Trophy in February.
 
Beauty is Only said:
I suppose Shanahan tried to strike a balance between "win now" and "build for the future." He has upped the win total, but you can't really call the season a resounding success. Is it all Shanahan's fault?

The offensive woes are, in part, related to the loss of Portis and Torain. Shanahan also brought in other backs (Johnson, Parker) to try to upgrade the backfield situation. It didn't work out, but you can't say an attempt wasn't made.

The offensive line is now struggling, but Shanahan and Allen did make an effort to upgrade it as well. I seem to recall a preseason article that pointed to the 'Skins' revamped o-line as a weakness turned into a strength due to offseason acquisitions. Injuries have contributed to poor performance in this area. Depth is a problem, but you can't fix everything in one offseason, right?

McNabb is an upgrade over Campbell, but I must admit he's been disappointing (although it is his first year in this system and with this team). But, again, an attempt to improve was made. How many years does McNabb have left? Can a suitable replacement be found and developed between now and the day McNabb leaves Ashburn?
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Beauty (ok if I call you American Beauty...:)....)

got that you are trying to be even handed...salute for that. but, you know, the last group leading this team also tried to fix things. do they deserve brownie points for that?

I look at a team like CLeveland that was really in worse shape than the Skins after last season....and compare what two "old hands" have achieved (holmgren versus shanahan). who do you think did a better job of taking awful and turing it into ok?
 
Canadian Hog said:
I for one won't debate whether or not Haynesworth or Shannahan are at fault for the drama that has been created all season.

I'm going to go back much further...

The Haynesworth acquisition in the first place had a bad smell and taste to it for me from the get go.

a. It was the latest of the Redskins' high profile, big money expenditures for another team's player. How many of those panned out previously in terms of helping the team win on a large and significant scale?

b. Haynesworth had character issues to begin with prior to coming here.

c. Most importantly in my mind, we threw a pile of money at a single player yet again without looking at the big picture - that being that the team was miles away yet from competing seriously for a championship.

Who cares how the situation was handled by Shannahan. It was a mistake to bring him here right out of the shoot. Haynesworth best years would have been played in D.C. helping the team get better and improving, instead of competing for a championship. If I'm spending 100M, I better be darn sure that I'm close to raising the Lombardi Trophy in February.
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90% agree. I care because Shanahan has now demonstrated a repeated character flaw....or at the very least....questionable decision making.
 
Canadian Hog said:
Who cares how the situation was handled by Shannahan. It was a mistake to bring him here right out of the shoot. Haynesworth best years would have been played in D.C. helping the team get better and improving, instead of competing for a championship. If I'm spending 100M, I better be darn sure that I'm close to raising the Lombardi Trophy in February.
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Thank you sir. You are a beacon of light.

Our fanbase tends to be short-sighted be it looking in the past for root causes, or into the future when searching for possible solutions.

Haynesworth was Stubblefield v.2.0. That's what I said to all of my friends upon learning of our signing him. I had a feeling he would be more trouble than he was worth (esp given the crazy contract terms).

While Shannahan could've handled it better, I have a feeling he was pissed he even had to deal with this inherited problem.
 
this is turing into an intersting thread.....so...we all...well most of us...hedged our bets at the beginning of the season and stated we weren't expecting miracles. with the advantage of hindset...were you

- expecting about what has happened

- expecting something better

- expecting worse

???? and why.
 
fansince62 said:
Beauty (ok if I call you American Beauty...:)....)

got that you are trying to be even handed...salute for that. but, you know, the last group leading this team also tried to fix things. do they deserve brownie points for that?

I look at a team like CLeveland that was really in worse shape than the Skins after last season....and compare what two "old hands" have achieved (holmgren versus shanahan). who do you think did a better job of taking awful and turing it into ok?
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Holmgren is the GM in Cleveland, so should be compared to Bruce Allen, not Mike Shanahan. Also, Cleveland's foundation was not built this past offseason - they've had over a season to build to Holmgren's specs - so the comparison isn't a valid one in that regard either. And Crennell put a lot of pieces on that defense in place before Holmgren/Ryan got ahold of it - we're essentially starting from scratch.
 
fansince62 said:
this is turing into an intersting thread.....so...we all...well most of us...hedged our bets at the beginning of the season and stated we weren't expecting miracles. with the advantage of hindset...were you

- expecting about what has happened

- expecting something better

- expecting worse

???? and why.
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I was expecting 8-8 to 9-7, as Snyderatto had damaged this team very badly. Most people who understand the game knew this wasn't going to be a one-year turnaround...they're going to need some time.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
Holmgren is the GM in Cleveland, so should be compared to Bruce Allen, not Mike Shanahan. Also, Cleveland's foundation was not built this past offseason - they've had over a season to build to Holmgren's specs - so the comparison isn't a valid one in that regard either. And Crennell put a lot of pieces on that defense in place before Holmgren/Ryan got ahold of it - we're essentially starting from scratch.
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disagree. that's just labeling. and you know you are being slippery here. the point is who is calling the shots.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
I was expecting 8-8 to 9-7, as Snyderatto had damaged this team very badly. Most people who understand the game knew this wasn't going to be a one-year turnaround...they're going to need some time.
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fair enough. at the beginnig of the season I wasn't looking so much for a record (though I know I have posted that winning is the only thing that matters) as I was looking for discipline and execution, intelligent adjustments, and some improvement in the O-line. Like you....I wanted 9-7/8-8 but expected 7-9.

what I have seen so far falls below expectations....agreeing that Snyder dug a very deep hole to climb out of.

it's hard to put a finger on it...but I wanted "crispness". know what I mean? that feeling that the players know their roles, know the fundamentals...and execute. no more mental mistakes...no more dropped balls.....etc
 
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fansince62 said:
Beauty (ok if I call you American Beauty...:)?
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I am an American, but I'm not really all that beautiful. I sometimes regret having chosen that screen name because I think many people believe me to be a female. I chose it because it's the phrase that precedes "skin deep" (I'm a 'Skins fan living in the Deep South (Georgia)) in the old proverb.

fansince62 said:
...you know, the last group leading this team also tried to fix things. do they deserve brownie points for that?
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I suppose a slight tip of the hat is in order for the Zorn regime (the 'Skins got a win in Philly and Dallas out of it, right? ;)), but, as far as football knowledge and experience is concerned, I can't say Zorn belongs in the same category as Mike Shanahan. I saw the end of the Zorn era, but the Shanahan era is just beginning. I reserve judgement until I've heard Shanahan's swan song in D.C.

fansince62 said:
...I look at a team like CLeveland that was really in worse shape than the Skins after last season....and compare what two "old hands" have achieved (holmgren versus shanahan). who do you think did a better job of taking awful and turing it into ok?
Click to expand...

Well, Peyton Hillis has stayed healthy. That makes the decision to acquire him look pretty good, doesn't it? I can't say I've followed the Browns closely other than to see that they're improved. Right now, the 'Skins and Browns have the same record. And in this league, you ARE your record, right?
 
fansince62 said:
this is turing into an intersting thread.....so...we all...well most of us...hedged our bets at the beginning of the season and stated we weren't expecting miracles. with the advantage of hindset...were you

- expecting about what has happened

- expecting something better

- expecting worse

???? and why.
Click to expand...

I thought they might be a little better than what we've seen. ie. more points, more sacks, more turnovers (like what we saw in he 1st 5 weeks or so). But I had the Skins at 8-8.

Essentially the 2010 Skins are very much like the 2004 Skins. Trying to find an identity and figuring out who the coaches would like to be here to make up their team and who needs to go.

Obviously Haynesworth needs to go. This move has been a failure at each and every level from the time he was signed here. The Skins overpaid. Haynesworth wasn't happy almost from day 1. Blache and Haynesworth didn't see eye to eye on scheme (never understood why blache refused to adjust the scheme a bit to try to at least go halfway with players like Haynesworth and Taylor). Haynesworth flopped around like a fish out of water during most of 2009. Sack productivity did improve, but it's still notable that Orakpo's best game was when Haynesworth was inactive. Shanahan wanted to run a scheme that Haynesworth didn't want to be in and the coach has gone out of his way multiple times to antagonize the situation and leak info to the media.

So blame need to be cast at the player, the coaches and most importantly the FO (Snyder/Cerrato). Haynesworth was exactly what was expected coming here.....a guy who wants a check, can dominate when he feels like it and be utterly useless when he doesn't. Had the FO heeded those warnings, he shouldn't have been brought here in the 1st place. You don't pay $40 mill guaranteed for a guy like that. You pay that type of money for a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. Guys who are team leaders and are on the field for most of their units' snaps should get paid big money. Not a guy who's on the field maybe 60% of the time and misses 4 games a season.
 
Has Shanahan handled the Haynesworth situation in the best possibly manner? Probably not.

We can spin it any way we want, but the bottom line is that Shanahan was brought here to change a losing culture that has plagued our franchise for almost 20 years now.

Albert's poor attitude (regardless of ability) does nothing but contribute to maintaining a losing tradition and atmosphere.

The last thing a team that has a huge hole to dig out of needs is guys like Albert who don't want to buy in to what the people in charge are trying to do.
 
Beauty is Only said:
I am an American, but I'm not really all that beautiful. I sometimes regret having chosen that screen name because I think many people believe me to be a female. I chose it because it's the phrase that precedes "skin deep" (I'm a 'Skins fan living in the Deep South (Georgia)) in the old proverb.


I suppose a slight tip of the hat is in order for the Zorn regime (the 'Skins got a win in Philly and Dallas out of it, right? ;)), but, as far as football knowledge and experience is concerned, I can't say Zorn belongs in the same category as Mike Shanahan. I saw the end of the Zorn era, but the Shanahan era is just beginning. I reserve judgement until I've heard Shanahan's swan song in D.C.



Well, Peyton Hillis has stayed healthy. That makes the decision to acquire him look pretty good, doesn't it? I can't say I've followed the Browns closely other than to see that they're improved. Right now, the 'Skins and Browns have the same record. And in this league, you ARE your record, right?
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American Beauty is both a Grateful Dead reference and a drug reference!
 
Canadian Hog said:
Has Shanahan handled the Haynesworth situation in the best possibly manner? Probably not.

We can spin it any way we want, but the bottom line is that Shanahan was brought here to change a losing culture that has plagued our franchise for almost 20 years now.

Albert's poor attitude (regardless of ability) does nothing but contribute to maintaining a losing tradition and atmosphere.

The last thing a team that has a huge hole to dig out of needs is guys like Albert who don't want to buy in to what the people in charge are trying to do.
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I can accept all that. except, from where I sit, I don't see how the losing part has changed all that much.
 
Rymanofthenorth said:
yeah I am not buying the whole " we just couldnt tolerate it anymore " bs , frankly Shannahan was waiting for any excuses to suspend Albert since camp.
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well...and we had preseason discussions reaching all the way back to the Spring on this.....one option was to build a case that would support a breach of contract case. problem is...were the Skins a contributing factor?
 
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