A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1
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    Default Parcells wants back in

    Wonder if he'd be happy running our talent evaluation and draft with a big, fat danny check?


    http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_r...nnbin&hpt=Sbin


    Bill Parcells stepped down as Miami's EVP of football operations on Sept. 7, but it may not mean the current daily consultant is tapering off. Judging by Parcells' own words in an upcoming NFL Network documentary about his life, Parcells likely won't even be consulting for the Dolphins in the near future. Instead, he sounds like he will be giving his input to another NFL team sooner rather than later. "Get me back out there," Parcells says near the end of the NFL Films-produced Bill Parcells: Reflections on a Life in Football, which debuts Friday night on NFL Network at 8 p.m. "I can do this one more time. That's how I feel."
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    Florida State

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    First off, I do not see Allen going anywhere. Secondly, do you really believe Shanahan would cede any control over has player personnel to anyone, much less someone like Bill Parcells?
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    James Madison

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    First off, I do not see Allen going anywhere. Secondly, do you really believe Shanahan would cede any control over has player personnel to anyone, much less someone like Bill Parcells?
    Very tempting to fire Shanahan then. Allen too if need be. The Tuna's ability to turn around a franchise in one season is amazing. Things do generally deteriorate after the first couple of seasons to some extent, at least lately, but still something to consider.the Cowboys were stuck in the same morass we are now before him. The Dolphins were simply awful before he came, his ability to do it quickly is astonishing.
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    UTEP

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Very tempting to fire Shanahan then. Allen too if need be. The Tuna's ability to turn around a franchise in one season is amazing. Things do generally deteriorate after the first couple of seasons to some extent, at least lately, but still something to consider.the Cowboys were stuck in the same morass we are now before him. The Dolphins were simply awful before he came, his ability to do it quickly is astonishing.
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    This. We need a talented talent evaluator who can draft and a young coach who isnt concerned about his legacy right now and will be willing to take a beating to get where he needs to go.

    look at all the real legacy builders, how many were former superbowl winners elsewhere? how many were guys on their second or even first real chances at building a team?
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    Default

    Even if Zorn and Vinny were still with us this year, there's no way Tuna would come within sniffing distance of the Skins. I think he already had his fill with meddling owners when he was down in Dallas. Why go through that again?
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    Marine Corps Virginia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Very tempting to fire Shanahan then. Allen too if need be. The Tuna's ability to turn around a franchise in one season is amazing. Things do generally deteriorate after the first couple of seasons to some extent, at least lately, but still something to consider.the Cowboys were stuck in the same morass we are now before him. The Dolphins were simply awful before he came, his ability to do it quickly is astonishing.
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    Not directed at you Goal, just a general thought your post spawned.

    I wrote an article for the next issue of Hail! magazine called 'Taking Our Medicine'. Redskins fans need to stop - just stop. We need to be patient. Jesus Christ himself couldn't turn the Redskins around in a half season. That we somehow expect Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen to says more about our impatience and state of mind as Redskins fans than it does about our front office and coaching staff.

    We don't need Bill Parcells. We just need to have the courage of our convictions and demonstrate some patience.
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    Yeah, I hear you Boone. I want to agree, I really want to. I just haven't been thrilled with what i have seen so far from Shanny this year. And being impatient is part of being a fan, isn't it?! I was all for blowing up the team and starting over, or, if upon arrival ShanAllen felt they were a piece or two away from being competitive, go for it. But it's almost like they decided to do both at the same time, without committing to either. Why would we scrap the tenth ranked D in the league and then not really get the necessary players to play the new scheme? And if we were going to commit to the new scheme, why trade for McNabb who only has three years at most left, IMO?

    Not that they have any obligation to reveal their grand plan to me or anyone else, but I don't see what their plan is. I am not sure if they have one. The whole benching of McNabb, Haynesworth saga, 3-4 switch, LJ/Fast Willie combo has me wondering what their plan is, or really, if they even have a plan at all?
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    I can't disagree. You, Henry, Bulldog, lots of us (including moi) have found the approach so far to be hard to understand - a curious mix of youth and over-the-hill. I won't pretend to understand moves like holding onto a Joey Galloway while sending a Devin Thomas packing. But I don't think it's all been bad news either. I also think you're right that the most questionable part of the approach so far has been bringing in a Jim Haslett, who Om did a great job of illustrating is only an average DC (at least so far in his NFL career), and even more so stubbornly insisting on imposing the 3-4 when our previous defense was approaching great things.

    I doubt anyone was madder than me over that MNF performance. It's tempting just to turn your back on this franchise permanently. We all have better things to do than devote significant portions of our time, energy, and emotion to a failed franchise. But I also can see how illogical it is to bring in a new GM and head coach and throw up our hands in surrender after half of their inaugural season.

    Even I can see that's not a reasonable way to respond.
    Last edited by Boone; 11-20-10 at 03:14 PM.
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    UTEP

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    The problem is that zorn and Schotty aside we HAVE been patient. any of the fans who were around during the nerver nervous norval years can tell you that " staying the course" doesnt always result in a winning team, worse yet most of us have seen first hand the mistakes that have resulted in our situation and despite not being paid coaches or talent evaluators knew which moves were terrible.

    Does anyone here doubt that trading draft picks for any player over 30 is a recipe for disaster?

    Does anyone here think it was a great decision to arbitrarily change this defence to a 3-4 and then not put any resources into the change?

    Does anyone here prefer aging stopgap players to less "talented" (and I use the word very loosely lol) Young guys who might have a shot at developing?

    This TEAM was not as bad as its record last year, the reason we faded was simple, we had a horrific run of injuries along the Oline, we didnt run the ball very well and didnt adjust our protections accordingly, we had the worst starting bookend tackles in our history and our interior Oline wouldnt have started in the CFL. Our defence went into a shell, took no risks and despite its high ranking , didnt scare anybody and misused the most expensive free agent in history by trying to make him into a Blache type Play it safe player. We took a guy who has the best physical tools at safety since Taylor and forced him to play against his tendencies as a deep safety, and we won a total of 4 games, but unlike this year we lost several by less than a FG.

    Miami went from a one win season to playoffs with an arguably less talented defence and offence, we made huge upgrades on offence but left several huge upgrades on the table (so im not overly bullish on our new ability to find talent) Guys like LT, TO (as much as I hate that guy)Moss, Henderson,atogwe, Hillis, were all available on the cheap and we flat out missed to sign guys like Galloway, Parker, Johnson and Holliday.

    I dont think its unreasonable to see the same warning signs we have seen with other fails here at coaching and Gm'ing and to be very very leery of "staying the course" yet again.

    now im not advocating firing shanny et all UNLESS THERE WAS A FAR BETTER OPTION, and I think Parcells with a superior young guy who is willing to take chances to build his own legacy is a better option. Look at our own history, we turned it around by getting a good front office in place and hiring a young don coryell disciple.
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    It may be 'understandable' Ryman, but it is unreasonable. And here's why...

    Shanahan and Allen don't own anything that happened before they got here. It's not on them that we've gone through a gazillion coaches over the past 15 years. When they make mistakes, and the have and will no doubt make more, they deserve to be judged in the context of the first 6 months on the job, not in the context of 15 years of relative failure.

    And you can't even truly judge some of what we might currently see as 'mistakes'. Youth is only valuable if it actually develops into tangible, producing talent. If Devin Thomas for instance, never makes it as an NFL receiver, that likely will validate the decision to let him go and start looking for someone who can. Bringing in Joey Galloway may be a mistake, but the intent behind that may not be what we think it is, subbing washed up talent for youth and potential. It may have been an effort to infuse some leadership by example on the offense (in terms of experience, work ethic, etc..) versus a decision driven purely by playing ability.

    The bottom line in my eye is that Shanahan and Allen only had a few draft picks to play with. That's not on them. There is only so much 're-building' they have had the chance to do. Can anyone say with a straight face that, warts and all, this season hasn't already been head and shoulders above anything we saw last year, even with our defensive woes?

    None of that should make Shanahan, Allen, and Company immune from criticism. But they deserve an obligatory 3 years or so before they can be fairly judged. I'm inclined to give it to them.
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    Florida State

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    I would kill for Parcells. And regardless of Parcells, I believe Shanahan will be gone by the end of next season.
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    You guys are crazy But in a nice way. There is no way Shanahan doesn't get at LEAST 3 years to turn it around - and I'd bet it'll be closer to 5 if he stays healthy and wants to be here.
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    Florida State

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    Boone, I wanted to chime in on what you have stated. You are absolutely correct to suggest that in most circumstances a coach and GM combo should be given the chance to prove themselves. To be honest, I don't see Snyder doing something so drastic as to dismantle the Allen/Shanahan era so quickly.

    I opine that Shanahan has already made decisions based on his ego instead of the betterment of the team. I believe the switch to the 3-4 base is a major ego driven decsion that has really cost us in an NFC that is weak, an NFC where we could have some success with the current talent. Like I expressed in another thread, I believe we would likely have 2 more wins if we had utilized the proper scheme to fit our players strengths, especially on the defense.

    I believe that Shanahan has made some really big mistakes in his first year. That is why I am questioning him. It is not that I don't have patience, and I will admit I lack in that department in many respects, but we have lost 5 games this year and only one of them should have been a loss. We should have won at least 2 of those 5 losses. I believe we could be atop the Division with the Eagles and Giants if we had played to our defense's strengths and not forced a scheme that obviously is not working for us.

    I have to agree with Ryman on this one, a younger hungry coach to make a name for himself with a FO in place to give him the means to do this is a remedy that is much more attractive than a retread coach who has little time to prove his firing with his former squad was a mistake.

    I know patience is the key, I just wish we had put a different staff in place after what I have seen from Shanny. 99 times out of a hundred I would be for allowing the coach, ideally 3 years at least (Zorn was obviously the exception). I have to say, I would almost be tempted to fire Shanny, allow Allen to stay as GM handling the business aspects of the team, bring in Parcells as the VP in charge of player personnel and hiring whomever he feels could coach the talent he acquires. He has proven with 4 teams now he has what it takes to acquire talent.

    Will this happen? No. Are we a team on the rise? A month ago I would have said, emphatically, yes! Today, I am not so sure. I think a win against the Titans, which is possible, will go a long way to silencing our impatience. I just don't feel quite as warm and fuzzy as I did just 4 weeks ago.
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    Air Force

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    Oh hey, I'm not suggesting we jettison Shanny and co. I'm just wondering if we could get Tuna and his eye for talent in here as an advisor or something
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    Now you tell us Sarge! Look what you've done!



    Boone, I hear you, and normally would agree. Only in the most extraordinary of circumstances would i be willing to consider making a change. Pacells, to me, is that kind of circumstance. If he were available to come the WAS, and Shanny would not cede power, i would be willing to consider making a change. Parcells, off the top of my head is literally the ONLY personnel man I would do this for. Normally i completely agree with you regarding consistency, in this case, and in this case only, i would not be averse to making the change.

    To your other point, Shanahans coaching has been solid this year. The effort and fight in the team (MNF aside) is something I haven't seen since Gibbs, and it is refreshing to see. But that speaks to the coaching side of Shanahan, not the player personnel development side. That side i have been less impressed with. So if we were to make a change in the player development side and it affected the coaching side, so be it with me.

    Because my opinion matters lots.
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    I guess I just don't personally buy-in to the 'magic' that is Bill Parcells. In four years at Dallas, the genius of Parcells brought them 2 wildcard losses. That's it. Is that awful? Not at all. I'd certainly take a playoff appearance every other year as a Redskins fan. But is it evidence of genius or brilliance? I don't think so.

    Miami has certainly improved. How much of that is the result of Bill Parcell's? I don't know. I just don't happen to believe he's some magic answer. And at his age, whether or not he would be around for more than a year or two would always be a relevant question.
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    I hear you, but the same argument can always be made for anyone. How many playoff games did Shanny win without Elway?

    Parcells to me actually isn't the best coach, but he accumulates draft picks well and uses them wisely. Like them or not, the talent on Dallas is impressive, and a lot of that is due to Parcells. If he were to come in and bring his hand picked coach? Well, I would be just fine with that.
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    Default while I was gone

    been on travel this week. funny this subject should come up. I was thinking about how I would handle the rest of the season and came to the conclusion "doesn't matter...it's the first year." I also decided, however, if we see the same or worse next year then not only I but any fan who arrived on the scene post 1992 ought to chuck it in. It'd be hard to root for any other team...so I think I would forget about the NFL altogether and just play golf on Sundays and find something to occupy myself during night games.

    as for Parcells.....eh......exactly what success has he wrought in Miami....or Dallas?
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    FanSince, success is relative, I'll grant you that. Having said that, look at where Dallas was before Parcells: three consecutive 6-10 season, if memory serves. Miami was in teh doldrums as well, and both rebounded nicely, and quickly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    FanSince, success is relative, I'll grant you that. Having said that, look at where Dallas was before Parcells: three consecutive 6-10 season, if memory serves. Miami was in teh doldrums as well, and both rebounded nicely, and quickly.
    no argument here. he just strikes me as a hit n run artist: pats, jets, boys, fins

    the Skins gotta turn it around under Shanahan. if not now...when?

    that said....I really, really, really hope the braintrust isn't thinking "the future is now"
    Last edited by fansince62; 11-21-10 at 10:17 PM.
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