A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1
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    Default Where are you at as a skins fan?

    Be honest.

    Heres where I am, I used to be a pollyanna, I would get so stoked every offseason when we would win the offseason championship by signing the biggest names. I would drink the koolaid when we would sign the next big thing as our coordinators who would save us (anyone remember Al saunders?Ron Lynn? Mike Nolan?) I even believed the hype rather than my own eyes for a while when people told me " your team is brutal but at least your O and D lines are solid". Im done with that. We suck, period.

    Now I am the ultimate "show me" fan, I no longer believe that an NFL coach knows more about football than I do, not just because I am an amateur football coach but because Ive seen some of them do incredibly stupid things and make decisions that I knew were stupid. I dont think that every NFL GM is some sort of guru who has a secret for drafting because everyone makes mistakes and I have to assume they have far more detailed info than any of us have.

    I said at the beginning of this off season that I personally would prefer us to blow up the Offence and rebuild it from the ground up, at the time the only players I would have kept were Campbell (to place hold for our real QB) Santana, Cooley, Portis, sellers, davis, and mike williams and maybe Dock on the Oline but everything else was brutal and needed replacing. Including the coordinator. We did that, upgraded several spots and yet we still suck.

    I thought that our defence with a few tweaks was manageable, our poor performances were more about our non aggressive scheme than lack of anything more than a Sam backer and a solid FS. Instead they blew up the defence and completely chnaged the scheme. now instead of having a decent defence we suck.

    I was told " we need to rebuild so give it time" "nobody thought we would be any good this season" " we only won 4 games last year" and other bon mots.

    Im sorry but it doesnt wash, trading a second rounder for a 32 year old QB from a division rival is a won now move period, you can say it was to stabilise the QB position, or that it was to prevent us from losing more games than last season but by that very definition , not losing more games means.....?Oh yeah WINNING NOW.

    We traded draft picks for a RT coming off injuries, but who if healthy was a huge upgrade over our backup LT who was forced to play RT.

    We signed a bunch of old Running backs instead of finding young guys to develop, that smacks of a win now mentality. We even cut the guy starting for us now to keep those old guys around longer lol.

    Instead of taking flyers on young guys who have upside and a shot to get better (which most rebuilding teams would do) we stayed with Roydell and Joey neither of whom have any upside anymore.

    WE GOT OLDER AS A TEAM, again not the hallmark of a rebuilding team, the excuse we were given was " we have so many players to get rid of that we needed to sign stopgap players." but we cut guys like Cornelius only to add guys like Vonnie Holiday, so we traded our old washed up guys for someone elses. There were lots of young practice roster types we could have taken flyers on but instead we went with aging guys who would give us more of what we knew MEDIOCRITY.

    We signed a terrible coordinator in what I honestly believe was a hedge your bets move, It was brialliant by shannahan, because his offence is underachieving, nobody notices it because THE DEFENCE WENT FROM 5TH TO 32ND BOO DEFENCE, THE DEFENCE SUCKS, FIRE HASLETT HASLETT SUCKS PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN OR HIS OFFENCE THAT SUCKS DESPITE SUPPOSED UPGRADES. Noone with any football acumen at all could possibly think we have the correct players to run a 3-4, we lacked depth at the 2 positions that you NEED depth at to be solid in a 3-4, we had no Dt's other than AH (gholston was solid in a rotation as a high effort guy but is brutal at 3-4 end)
    and we had to move a DT to linebacker because we just didnt have any OLBS THE KEY POSITION IN A 3-4. Yet I still had people who supposedly know football telling me that "other teams have been good with the switch to a 3-4 so we will too" never mind that the only player who this fits would also be a stellar 4-3 end. They said "why are you so negative about this? you must just be biased against the 3-4 because its a better defence. LMAO

    so no I am not willing to wait another year, why should we? this defence sucks now, and it will suck next year, even if we add a stud NT its gonna suck, why? because we cant add 6 starters in one seasonand thats the minimum we will need.

    so I will continue to be negative until this team and this FO shows me a reason to be positive , and no winning a couple games isnt gonna do that, I need tangible improvement and the idea that we are building something, not just hanging around.
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    After our collapse in 2008 I things changed for me. The Redskins have no faith in the traditional rebuilding process. To this day they insist they can rebuild on the fly. And after eight years of watching the Redskins fail at it, I lost my faith in the team.

    The Redskins are still my team. They are the only team I root for in any sport. And I will always hope for the best. But I do not believe in them anymore. I don't try to find any meaning in the outcomes of games anymore. When we win I smile and when we lose I shrug, and that's it. I'm not angry at them for the mediocrity anymore because I expect it. I haven't gone to a game in three years now, and I don't see myself going to one any time soon. If I've got something going on on a Sunday I'll miss a game without much thought. I've missed about three this year. I don't even DVR them anymore. Again, shrug.

    I don't say much anymore on boards because I don't like being negative. I don't want to be negative. I usually save my negative posts for really really embarrassing losses. Other than that I just try and keep my mouth shut.

    But you did ask. So there it is.
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    Florida State

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    Frustrated!





    Edit: I know it is not much, but it is exactly where I am as a fan.
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    I perked up when Shanahan was hired but I'm slowly fading back to where I was during the Norv years......hoping for the best but not expecting it. As a season ticket holder during the Gibbs I years, I expected to win EVERY home game and was pissed when we didn't because I was always SURE we were the better team. I haven't felt that way in a long, long time.

    Winning may cure everything but only when it becomes a habit.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    After our collapse in 2008 I things changed for me. The Redskins have no faith in the traditional rebuilding process. To this day they insist they can rebuild on the fly. And after eight years of watching the Redskins fail at it, I lost my faith in the team.

    The Redskins are still my team. They are the only team I root for in any sport. And I will always hope for the best. But I do not believe in them anymore. I don't try to find any meaning in the outcomes of games anymore. When we win I smile and when we lose I shrug, and that's it. I'm not angry at them for the mediocrity anymore because I expect it. I haven't gone to a game in three years now, and I don't see myself going to one any time soon. If I've got something going on on a Sunday I'll miss a game without much thought. I've missed about three this year. I don't even DVR them anymore. Again, shrug.

    I don't say much anymore on boards because I don't like being negative. I don't want to be negative. I usually save my negative posts for really really embarrassing losses. Other than that I just try and keep my mouth shut.

    But you did ask. So there it is.

    Thats why I asked , lol, My problem is that I despise losing a lot, in my own athletic endeavours and in the teams I watch. It bugs me that I no longer believe in the one team I still go out of my way to watch. In basketball im a raptors fan but I accepted that they suck a long time ago and I dont expect anything more from them, from the skins tho it bugs me, we have an owner who is willing to spend the cash but it doesnt matter.

    You made a great point Henry, I hate that every year we act like we are one player away.

    Jimbo, I took a lot of flack for criticising Shannahan but I too got excited, how the hell could I not? our biggest issue was the O and hes a great offencive mind, I started getting disillusioned when he said we would run a 3-4 because he had watched film ON OUR TEAM and thought it would give us a better chance to win, then with how he dealt with AH. I admit I took a sip of the kool aid lol, now im back to where ive been since norv, wanting badly to believe that we are on the path but knowing we arent.

    and yes Elephant, frustrated says it all.
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    James Madison

    Default

    Somewhere, Fansince is smiling. Though he is mad you did not mention Devin Thomas.



    Ryman, i think we are all frustrated right now. MNF was brutal, awful to watch. Disheartening even. I understand completely where you are coming from. The thing is for me, sports is an escape from work, life, whatever. I tend to throw myself into the Redskins each year, partly to escape from whatever is bummin' me out. In that regard, the way the Skins are poorly run actually helps. The dysfunction makes anything imy life looks better by comparison. .

    See, you just have to look for the positives!

    When (yeah, i said when) the Skins start winning again, it will be that much sweeter because we've gone through these crap times together. Kind of a shared survivor experience or something.

    I just hope I'm alive to see it.
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  7. #7
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    Air Force

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    I'm where Henry is. I gave up my season tickets this year and don't have one regret. Had I gone Monday night, the Chad Dukes meltdown would have been pedestrain to what I would have unleashed

    2.5 hour drive

    Traffic

    Crappy, expensive parking

    Crappy, expensive beer

    Crappy, expensive food

    Crappy, expensive team

    Crappy 2.5 hour drive home

    Down one day of leave

    For these turds? **** that.

    I haven't bought one iota of Skins gear in four years, nor do I see buying any in the near future

    I knew we were a talentless team and that it was going to take a few years to get going again, so I didn't expect much this season (I called 6-10, but 4-12 is looking doable again)

    On the plus side, I'm much nicer on Sundays. My blood pressure no longer goes through the roof every 5 minutes. My TV is no longer covered in spit. If they stink it up, I just turn the tube off and go do something more constructive

    Thank you dan synder

    You ****ing troll
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    Formerly known as ...............Sarge

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    James Madison

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    Well put Sarge. I still care about the team, but not nearly to e point where I throw things at the wall (don't mention that to my wife, she remembers marker stains on our walls in one apartment). I hope they win, and when they don't, meh. Go outside and throw the baseball with the kids.

    And i used to buy the kids shirts, jerseys hats, whatever at the start of every season. Haven't done that in two years now.
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    I was very hopeful when we got Shanny, maybe even more hopeful then when Gibbs returned.

    That hopefulness has been whittled away slowly but surely with the addition of our coordinators, and then the blow to the heart with the signing of McNugget. The saddest part is I can't keep myself from watching, as my time could be used far more productively.

    Where am I at now......

    helpless and hopeless
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    James Madison

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    At the risk of watching Sarge foam at the mouth:

    http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/a...-to-dan-snyder
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    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    At the risk of watching Sarge foam at the mouth:

    http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/a...-to-dan-snyder
    You sure Sarge didn't write that?
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  12. #12
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    Air Force

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    At the risk of watching Sarge foam at the mouth:

    http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/a...-to-dan-snyder
    Pulitzer right there
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  13. #13

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    Same place I've been for 40+ years.
    Hate it when they lose, love it when they win.

    At peace knowing I have no control over either outcome.

    Also know that, as a franchise, we have a history of long lapses of winning football, between Championship eras. We'll emerge from this stretch too. No way to know when.

    It's who we've been, long before Dan Snyder was sent here by the forces of evil, to destroy Sarge.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Pulitzer right there
    More like chum.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

  15. #15
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    Where I am right now? Joking about my Wife (who's from Buffalo) that at least we're not the Bills...

    Although they do seem to play harder.
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  16. #16

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    Indiana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    More like chum.
    Ba-da-boom Ba-da-bing!

    Where am I as a Skins fan?

    Waiting for more information before I can draw any conclusions.

    Feelings are not facts so I don't use them, only evidence-based reason, and the evidence is trickling in and some of it is conflicting and contradictory.

    I'll figure it out as the season progresses.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

  17. #17
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    UTEP

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    this team has been nothing if not a contradiction.
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  18. #18

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    Indiana

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    That's the hell of it Ryman.

    Last season had an almost "watching the suffering martyr" quality to it as I could take the position of a loyal sufferer-the "Noble Captain going down with the ship" ala Raiders fans. Really quite pathetic when you think about it. But this season has the added element of tantalizing the fan with occasional flashes of brilliance-or at least competence-sporadically mixed with incomprehensible play-calling and bewildering lapses by players on the field. Until recently I have simply assumed the seemingly chaotic goings-on were the inevitable fits and starts one would expect of a team going through so many changes simultaneously and steeled myself against the roller coaster of emotional responses one might expect to have and inventing rationalizations to avoid a recurrence of the "Oh no, not again?!?" feeling of the past dozen or more years-but that is starting to wear a bit thin.

    Being almost phobic about closed-minded perspectives unwilling to question assumptions, I find myself necessarily questioning some of mine which were apparently based on that selfsame desire to avoid yet another disappointment. As an example,there are many things I like about Mike Shanahan-but, it turns out, there is one thing about him that I find almost unforgivable in any person. That is the apparent assumption of being correct in spite of evidence to the contrary-some might call it "bull-headedness" others actually call it "sticking to your guns".

    I call it deliberate ignorance. And I can't stand it-ever.

    I'm not ready to "throw the bum out", as it were because he has done some things the team desperately needed such as discipline, a cohesive locker-room, and demonstrated ability to field command a football game-but I am seriously unimpressed with the attitude of "My way or the highway" when evidence starts piling up that the highway just might work out better at times-no matter who that attitude belongs to.

    Some, by the way, have compared the current situation to the Norv Turner "experience", but I don't. I compare the Norv situation more to the Zorn experience. Norv came here after being OC at Dallas and putative "mentor" to Troy Aikman-similar background to Zorn's as opposed to Shanahan's resume of head coaching success.

    Which makes it that much more difficult to swallow. Turner and Zorn could be viewed as failed experiments while Shanahan was brought in as Mr. Fix-it with years of experience-which, ironically, provides a caveat to thoughts of "Why him?". Who else was both available and interested in coming here at the time? Interesting dilemma there, eh what?

    All this relates to where I am as a fan right now-in addition to just getting some festering crap off my chest in the only venue I have where it might be understood. I apologize for the inconvenience of making people put up with reading so much but it is related to why I'm having trouble figuring out an answer to "Where I am as a fan" at this moment. I'm always going to be a Redskins fan it's just that right now I'm figuring out a perspective to take that is the least uncomfortable.

    And I haven't even mentioned some players I'm wondering about.

    Or certain "other" members of the coaching staff.

    Perhaps later...I've dumped enough for now, I think.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

  19. #19
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    I agree with a lot of what you all are saying in here. I still love sitting on the couch on Sundays and watching football. In fact, I look forward to it. I bought tickets to this weeks game against the Titans pretty much knowing that Chris Johnson is going carve us up. It is an escape.

    However, I am also in show me mode. I got excited this offseason with Shannahan and Bruce Allen coming in. I remember last season when there were rumors that he may be coming here, I was against it. I did not care for him. Next, he strolls into town and I listen to his talk and I am excited. At first I was not happy about Bruce Allen, but the same thing happened. What I was really hoping for at the time, and still am, is that we got a solid player personnel guy. I think Allen and Shannahan need help in this area, based on their track record. I do like how Allen is handling contracts so far...top notch IMO.

    I will be patient with this regime. I am not ready to fire anybody, I think that would be a hasty decision. I just hope they step it up this offseason. I definitely thought we would look better right now. I did not expect the o-line to be so bad. Shannahan had a lot of low picks out in Denver that worked out on his lines, so I thought the same could be done here.

    I do think Foerster may be a huge part of the problem with the o-line. I only say this because he has bounced around from team to team over the last ten years. He was with the 49ers last year and dumped this offseason. I thought we were going to pick up Solari, but the 49ers grabbed him. I know there is a lack of talent here, we have all witnessed Shannahan do amazing things with o-line.

    Also, I have to laugh when people say 'well at least we aren't the Bills, Lions, Browns, Seahawks...etc....we are right there in that list of poor teams. Don't be in denial. I think a huge difference between us and them right now is that they are young and have, possibly, a bright future ahead. With us, it is hard to say what lies ahead. I just hope it is something good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Omniscient View Post
    I do think Foerster may be a huge part of the problem with the o-line. I only say this because he has bounced around from team to team over the last ten years. He was with the 49ers last year and dumped this offseason. I thought we were going to pick up Solari, but the 49ers grabbed him. I know there is a lack of talent here, we have all witnessed Shannahan do amazing things with o-line.
    This is a good point, Om.

    Hopefully once the season is in the rear-view mirror, Shannahan and Allen will take a look at the entire team (including position coaches and scouts) objectively and make the necessary changes. Perhaps this would include a replacement at O Line coach.
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