A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1
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    Default Upon Further Reflection: Monday Night May Help the Team

    I was as pissed/disheartened/bewildered as most fans by the half in this past MNF debacle vs. the Eagles. It's clear that this team lacks talent and either doesn't have the players or the heart to win when it counts. This is probably the result of years of neglect across the roster and was evident for all to see.

    Is the switch in coaching (particularly the 3-4 D implemented this year) partially to blame? Perhaps.

    So why may this devastating loss, this absolutely low water mark help the team long-term? I think it finally dispells the idea that we are a team that is only a few players away from being competitive. It's clear we are old, have a lack of talent along both lines, and have personnel that are better suited to other schemes.

    I think this loss will serve as a wake-up call to the front office and to Shanahan that things are a lot worse than originally thought. That this team truly is a 4-12 team and that we are going to require an infusion of talented youth through the draft to make this team a contender again. Losses like this force even the most ego-ridden individuals to take stock and consider changing their approach. Let's hope this loss does the same for the Skins.

    Slightly off-topic:
    I still think the McNabb extension was a smart move. It buys us 5 years to draft and develop a QB while at least having an above-average starter, provided we are able to keep him healthy.
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    I dont think it helps at all, the issue here is that too many people are willing to give the coaching staff a pass despite us just seeing an abject fail of the staff to adjust and beat a team we already beat once this season.

    we are not a super talented team, but this team does have talent on defence, its just not being used. How the hell do you take 2 po bowl DL and make them back ups so that you can start a guy coming off an achilles injury and a guy off the garbage heap from ST louis?

    Unless that game manages to do something that noone else was able to do and gets Shannahan to admit that he doesnt know much about defence and that his trying to fit round pegs into square holes......

    and I agree about Mcnabb, hopefully tho he starts playing better. he was the best of a bad set of options.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rymanofthenorth View Post
    the issue here is that too many people are willing to give the coaching staff a pass despite us just seeing an abject fail of the staff to adjust and beat a team we already beat once this season.
    The axe you have to grind with Haslett and the conversion to the 3-4 is well documented, so I won't touch that. I would argue that while our team is built for the 4-3, at least for now, we still had issues along the D line that only more draft picks would solve.

    Even on the offensive side of the ball, we have a glaring lack of talent at a number of key positions. And that is not a result of players not being a fit for a particular scheme - we just flat out suck.
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    the conversion to the 3-4 resulted in every issue we had, the only position we really could have used a draft pick at is DT and in a 4-3 Gholston is a solid rotational guy.

    in a 4-3 our Dline was a strength

    de-Carter, Rak, Jarmon, Daniels and Lorenzo all of whome are solid in a rotation,Jarmon and Rak both have huge upside and are young, while carter is good NOW and doesnt look like he would have much dropp off as he stays in great shape.

    DT- AH is one of the top 3 3 tech Dts in the NFL, Gholston is a solid high effort guy, Carriker is decent but needs better coaching and is a better fit as a 3-4 end but looks really slow and not explosive. we would need to add a starter (we could have henderson who would have given us the best inside tandem in the NFL (apologies to the Vikes)

    Linebacker was a spot we needed to add a starter badly at SAM, Fletch has probably 2 more seasons in him and Rocky is actually solid at WILL, I wonder if Lorenzo could play OLB at SAM but I doubt it, he would be solid at DE in a 4-3 I think.

    I agree about the offence but we did add several players , and some of the players we did not add are the biggest indictment against this FO.

    we added LJ and Fast willie, and didnt sign LT- huge mistake
    we didnt add a WR despite several being available
    Our Oline we added Williams and a couple guys who havent been difference makers but neglected center which has killed us.

    Our Offence has been sucky for years, so it needed the biggest infusion of talent, sadly we added holes instead of filling them.
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    The biggest thing thta is concerning me is that neither Shanny or Haslett seem able to adjust. It's the same scheme no matter the circumstances.

    Now, they may just be running it come hell or high water to get guys used to it and in effect use games as practice. I actually hope that is the case. Otherwise is shows a disturbing inablility to adjust to the other teams game plans
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    yup, one thing about Norval that used to make me spew was the whole " what we do works" and never adjusting, this is far too reminiscent of those lost seasons.
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    The past two seasons we made the playoffs, we suffered losses of 36-0 to the Giants, and 52-7 to the Patriots. Of course we got smashed 45-12 last year also, and were a few games out of the wild card race.

    Just sayin...
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    Quote Originally Posted by bird_1972 View Post
    I think it finally dispells the idea that we are a team that is only a few players away from being competitive. It's clear we are old, have a lack of talent along both lines, and have personnel that are better suited to other schemes.
    [/I]

    I would get on board with this if it wasn't for the fact that the 52-7 beatdown the Patriots gave us did not cause our front office to take action. I know that there are different people in charge now, but, we have seen mediocrity for so long that it is hard to get excited about what may happen.

    I am in show me mode until I see a different product on the field.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Omniscient View Post
    I would get on board with this if it wasn't for the fact that the 52-7 beatdown the Patriots gave us did not cause our front office to take action. I know that there are different people in charge now, but, we have seen mediocrity for so long that it is hard to get excited about what may happen.

    I am in show me mode until I see a different product on the field.
    I agree that as fans, we have never been given reason to feel this way since Danny has been the owner. I only trust that with real, professional football people in charge (and not poseurs like Vinny) we are now in the hands of people that can recognize the implications of such a loss.

    Perhaps how the team and the front office adjust following the MNF debacle will indicate how much hope we should have as fans that such a fundamental change has, in fact, taken hold.
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    Uh, if losing to the 2-7 Lions with a bye week to recover didn't wake up the Redskins I'm not sure if anything will.

    We'll win some more games. I figure 6-7 wins is still realistic, but this was a game of historic proportions. It's a game that will make all kinds of NFL films and ESPN top ten lists and hi-lite reels for years to come, and we were on the business end of it. Bouncing back and not sucking for a couple weeks won't make this one go away.

    I'm going to have a hard time finding any way to feel good about this game.
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    The way it helps the team is this: no matter how bad they play in any of their remaining games, it likely won't be as bad a debacle as the Eagles game, thus everything from here out should be an improvement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by China View Post
    The way it helps the team is this: no matter how bad they play in any of their remaining games, it likely won't be as bad a debacle as the Eagles game, thus everything from here out should be an improvement.
    There you go!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    There you go!
    So basically, you're so jaded that you believe that despite having actual football men in place in the FO we won't heed the canary in the coalmine?

    I guess I can't argue based on the past 10 years ... I still hope that the fundamental change we felt would come with Allen/Shanahan has yet to totally bear fruit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bird_1972 View Post
    So basically, you're so jaded that you believe that despite having actual football men in place in the FO we won't heed the canary in the coalmine?
    Pretty much.

    I guess I can't argue based on the past 10 years ... I still hope that the fundamental change we felt would come with Allen/Shanahan has yet to totally bear fruit.
    I do to. I just don't expect it.
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    Im curious, what did Shannhan as a GM or Bruce for that matter as a GM do that inspires so much confidence?when given GM powers in Denver Shannahan ended up being fired, his drafts were spotty at best. in tampa, did Allen have any superlative drafts?

    What we need is a young guy up and coming, its pretty rare that retread coaches who won superbowls win another or are succsessful rebuilding.
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    Well, it definitely helps our draft position

    The Redskins can dream about the playoffs at 4-5 but the truth is teams like the Saints (6-3), Eagles (6-3) and Bears (6-3) have the inside track for the wildcard playoff spots.

    Washington in my mind will be lucky to get to 7 wins now.

    Maybe a win over the luckless Vikings who will be out of contention. Maybe a win over the Jaguars on the final weekend when both clubs are playing for pride.

    That's 6.

    Tennessee? Not likely. Giants? Not likely. In Dallas? Well, let's see if Garrett is for real.

    And coming out of the Eagles game the Redskins injury list is longer than it was before the Detroit game!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rymanofthenorth View Post
    Im curious, what did Shannhan as a GM or Bruce for that matter as a GM do that inspires so much confidence?when given GM powers in Denver Shannahan ended up being fired, his drafts were spotty at best. in tampa, did Allen have any superlative drafts?

    What we need is a young guy up and coming, its pretty rare that retread coaches who won superbowls win another or are succsessful rebuilding.

    I don't know how accurate they were, but someone mentioned that Allen's draft choices seem to be coming together in Tampa.

    As for the retread coach, during last season when it was obvious Zorn would be gone, I clamored for a young hungry coach who wanted to win a Super Bowl, as long as he was humble enough to put some experienced guys in place. Baltimore is a great example of that. Denver, not so much!. Harbaugh came in, they kept Rex and brought in Cam Cameron. I was pushing for Brian Shottenheimer.

    Anyway, it is what it is now. Let's see if Shanny can show some success. Right now, it's not an attractive outlook. But, we are only in the first half of his first season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    Well, it definitely helps our draft position

    The Redskins can dream about the playoffs at 4-5 but the truth is teams like the Saints (6-3), Eagles (6-3) and Bears (6-3) have the inside track for the wildcard playoff spots.
    I never expected the playoffs this season.

    What I did expect, however, was evidence of a changing of culture at Redskins Park, a steady hand on the rudder, and a semblance of a plan to build a foundation for success for years to come.

    Until we show a renewed commitment to youth and valuing draft picks over FAs, I'm not optimistic.

    I was hoping that such an unprecedented loss such as the one that happened this past Monday would shake even the most hubris-prone head coach to rethink how bad things really are on this roster. We'll see, I guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    I don't know how accurate they were, but someone mentioned that Allen's draft choices seem to be coming together in Tampa.
    I'm more interested in this front office investing in a beefed up scouting department. I don't see Allen as a talent evaluator but more as a manager collating the information fed to him by those scouts working for him. He is more of a big picture guy (which is appropriate). I've been pleased with his efforts at improving the image of the organization and how he's approached contracts.
    I was pushing for Brian Shottenheimer.
    He is actually not that popular in NY. Many fans feel like good talent acquisition has helped immensely and not the offensive playcalling.
    Anyway, it is what it is now. Let's see if Shanny can show some success. Right now, it's not an attractive outlook. But, we are only in the first half of his first season.
    Shanny is an instant upgrade over Zorn. Even if his only legacy is forcing Snyder to accept a fundamental change in the front office and, perhaps, paving the way for his son (a young, hungry HC option) in the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bird_1972 View Post
    I'm more interested in this front office investing in a beefed up scouting department. I don't see Allen as a talent evaluator but more as a manager collating the information fed to him by those scouts working for him. He is more of a big picture guy (which is appropriate). I've been pleased with his efforts at improving the image of the organization and how he's approached contracts.

    He is actually not that popular in NY. Many fans feel like good talent acquisition has helped immensely and not the offensive playcalling.

    Shanny is an instant upgrade over Zorn. Even if his only legacy is forcing Snyder to accept a fundamental change in the front office and, perhaps, paving the way for his son (a young, hungry HC option) in the future.
    Earlier in the year, I think it was after the Houston game, I mentioned that it looked like we had a young, hungry head coach in the making right here who may be what I was looking for in Shottenheimer. I just don't know what to think at this point. It is frustrating to watch the uncertainty. The uncertainty has become conditioned like it was conditioned to expect to win when I was a kid during the 70's, 80's and early 90's.
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