A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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    Default Clayton For Haynesworth Might Happen

    It's an interesting thought to say the least. Clayton is no world beater, but looking at what we have in camp, he could be a useful addition. He could be used like blocking tight end, which couldn't hurt, and has adequate skill as a receiver. Also some more on how poorly Tampa thinks of Bruce as a GM.

    From JoeBucksFan.com.

    Joe was flabbergasted listening to veteran Bucs beat writer Roy Cummings tell 770 AM in Fort Myers that notorious facestomper Albert Haynesworth could possibly wear pewter and red this year and, even better, possibly come to the Bucs from Washington for Michael Clayton.

    Yes, that Michael Clayton, the wide receiver with iconic blocking prowess and a bloated contract.

    Speaking late Monday on the Miller & Moulton Show, Cummings was tossed a specific question about Haynesworth having any value for the Bucs as a defensive end, and Cummings was quick to say Haynesworth could make the Bucs a better team and Redskins general manager Bruce Allen likely is obsessed with Clayton


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    Kent State

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    This sounds more like someone "wishing" this would happen than anything else. I don't see Allen making a deal like this for AH.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    thats a horrible idea in my opinion. clayton is nothing special and haynesworth (if he would focus) is a much better player any day of the week.

    bring on the "haynesworth sucks" crowd but there is no way this deal makes sense except for money wise.
    Your right, Clayton is nothing special, but will Albert ever get his shlitz together and be a productive part of the team ? If he doesn't, he's nothing special. Potential is one thing, production is another.


    Quote Originally Posted by SkinsOrlando View Post
    This sounds more like someone "wishing" this would happen than anything else. I don't see Allen making a deal like this for AH.
    At this point, I need some creative wishful thinking to go along with all the drama.
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    the Bucs have no money. this means Skins getting a non-entity and no compensation to boot.

    I doubt it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    haynesworth is still getting a double team even without having his "shlitz" together. clayton is a blocking (?) tight end..
    Yes he is, against the prep squad..... He hasn't had a snap against a starting O line in either game so far.

    Actually, Clayton isn't a tight end at all, but a wide out known for his run blocking ability. He got a good chance of being more productive then Thomas or Kelly, which isn't really saying a lot, but sooner or later you need to cut your losses. Moss is a gimmie, and Armstrong is looking pretty solid to make the team. We could go with the perennial unproductive Thomas and Kelly, but odds are Kelly is done here. Thomas is also questionable from what I have gathered. Banks may make the team as a returner, but doubt he'd see much action as a wide out. While Galloway still has some in the tank, I'd like a little more youth. Haven't heard a lot about Austin. Bringing in another wide out isn't so crazy IMO.

    As for AH, Ya gotta understand, I'd be happy to just cut him outright. He could dot the I's, cross the T's, and make it to the pro bowl this year, and I'll still never embrace him as a Redskin. He'll be gone next year, so why wast the effort of trying to get him to grasp the concept of team, and he's not more important than any other player.

    If I was in charge, I'd send him walkin for a ham sandwich, and garlic pickle.
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    I don't think Albert sucks. But his attitude and behavior certainly does.
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    Florida State

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    This whole Al thing is disappointing. When he plays, not like he has in Washington, he can be a very good player. Not even close to the greats like Sapp, but still good.

    But what are the chances that he either fakes an injury or just doesn't give any effort at all this season?

    And what are the odds of him being here next year? Less than 5%?

    They can't possibly continue this bs for the next four seasons. I would like somone better than Clayton, but it appears Al's time here is going to be short.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    if you think that haynesworth wont be double teamed against even the starting OL then you havent watched him play football...ever.
    Oh, I've seen him play lots. He was a pretty dominating player for the Titans. Never did see that player last season. He'll draw a double to start, but if he's gassed most of the time like last year, he'll be handled one on one as we've seen.

    I would love to see that dominant player, but thus far he hasn't shown to be any different from last season.
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    Florida State

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    not at all last year, huh?

    how did carter go from a 3 sack a year player to an 11 sack guy?
    how did orakpo get 11 sacks as well?

    SOMEONE had to be eating up all those linemen.
    I don't have the stats at my fingertips Mike, but Haynesworth wasn't even playing for many of those sacks.

    In our best game sack-wise of the entire season, he wasn't even on the field.
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    James Madison

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    not at all last year, huh?

    how did carter go from a 3 sack a year player to an 11 sack guy?
    how did orakpo get 11 sacks as well?

    SOMEONE had to be eating up all those linemen.

    Ok, I have seen this stat a lot, Carter going to 11 stats last year, a lot of people attributing that to Haynesworth. So I went and looked at Carter's game logs, and out of his 11 sacks, only 4.5 came in the second half of the season over our final eight games. And two of those came against the Raiders. Not that those don't count, but you have to acknowledge the sulkiness that is Oakland. Carter had one against Philly and one and a half against the Donkeys.

    Furthermore, Fat Al did not play in either the Philly or the Oakland games. This means that out of the final games of the season, we can only attribute one and a half sacks of Carter to Fat Al's presence.

    One can make statistics say whatever you want the to say; however, one could easily extrapolate from this data that Haynesworth lived off his reputation for the first half of the season. If I had the time and resources to go back and look at the game tape, I suspect I might find a lot of double teams on Haynesworth during the first half of the season, but as time wore on, and his conditioning and effectiveness lessened, those double teams became a little less frequent.

    Again, given the inherent fallacies of relying too much on stats, I would still argue that we as a fan base have over valued Haynesworth's contributions. Early last year when he was playing, teams feared his impact and gave him too much respect through double teams. I would posit that Shanahan has theorized this as well, and this is why he feels it is unnecessary to cow tow to Haynesworth.

    My two cents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Ok, I have seen this stat a lot, Carter going to 11 stats last year, a lot of people attributing that to Haynesworth. So I went and looked at Carter's game logs, and out of his 11 sacks, only 4.5 came in the second half of the season over our final eight games. And two of those came against the Raiders. Not that those don't count, but you have to acknowledge the sulkiness that is Oakland. Carter had one against Philly and one and a half against the Donkeys.

    Furthermore, Fat Al did not play in either the Philly or the Oakland games. This means that out of the final games of the season, we can only attribute one and a half sacks of Carter to Fat Al's presence.

    One can make statistics say whatever you want the to say; however, one could easily extrapolate from this data that Haynesworth lived off his reputation for the first half of the season. If I had the time and resources to go back and look at the game tape, I suspect I might find a lot of double teams on Haynesworth during the first half of the season, but as time wore on, and his conditioning and effectiveness lessened, those double teams became a little less frequent.

    Again, given the inherent fallacies of relying too much on stats, I would still argue that we as a fan base have over valued Haynesworth's contributions. Early last year when he was playing, teams feared his impact and gave him too much respect through double teams. I would posit that Shanahan has theorized this as well, and this is why he feels it is unnecessary to cow tow to Haynesworth.

    My two cents.
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    shanahan is "theorizing" now!!!!

    this is not a good d-line...it's "ok"....Haslett (who is immediately accountable)...knows that a motivated AH is a major plus. aside from money...this is all about ego.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    I don't have the stats at my fingertips Mike, but Haynesworth wasn't even playing for many of those sacks.

    In our best game sack-wise of the entire season, he wasn't even on the field.
    yes....one can do well when playing a Pop Warner quality team. both carter and orakpo garnered the bulk of their sacks against less than top quality teams. orakpo, for example, had ZERO sacks against NFE teams - what's with that drook of the year wanna be? these cats did very little or nothing against the best/better teams. this is where an AH can make a difference.
    Last edited by fansince62; 08-24-10 at 09:50 PM.
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    last word. I am tired...after 18 yrs...of losing..sometimes embarrassing football. I don't particularly care for what AH has done. but I do know that if he's in there and motivated - the odds of having to sit through another disgraceful season are reduced. the Skins made this contractual bed and now have to sleep in it for the next year.

    I don't care of this is a new regime or not. I am sick and tired of crap football and will tolerate most anything to avoid it YET AGAIN.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    these cats did very little or nothing against the best/better teams. this is where an AH can make a difference.
    Your right, AH could make difference....

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    last word. I am tired...after 18 yrs...of losing..sometimes embarrassing football. I don't particularly care for what AH has done. but I do know that if he's in there and motivated - the odds of having to sit through another disgraceful season are reduced. the Skins made this contractual bed and now have to sleep in it for the next year.

    I don't care of this is a new regime or not. I am sick and tired of crap football and will tolerate most anything to avoid it YET AGAIN.
    Your last words strike a note of frustration and desperation. I feel ya, and I'd say all of us are just as tired of a crappy team. I'm just not ready to pin my hope of improvement to one player, but rather on the group as a whole, and the system implemented.

    Cheers !
    Last edited by Miles Monroe; 08-25-10 at 06:37 AM.
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    Virginia

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    First and foremost, Coach Shanahan and Manager Allen will not be able to change this franchise in just a few months. It will take another season at the very least. Trying to be patient is tough, but having the front office and coaching positions in relative stability is a great start.

    Albert Haynesworth will not command a premium trade value, but there is some good news to consider. Thus far, Allen has proven to be a shrewd dealer and has virtually "stolen" players from opposing teams. It wouldn't surprise me to see Allen make a superb trade before the season begins and we will receive more than a "Clayton" or some other player who would have little to no impact. A respectable draft pick is not out of the question either.

    Patience my friends. Patience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles Monroe View Post
    Your right, AH could make difference....



    Your last words strike a note of frustration and desperation. I feel ya, and I'd say all of us are just as tired of a crappy team. I'm just not ready to pin my hope of improvement to one player, but rather on the group as a whole, and the system implemented.

    Cheers !
    Hey Miles! (btw...loved you in the film Sideways!!!)

    You know..I was thinking this morning on the way to work about what has changed and what has stayed the same. This would likely be a good subject for all of us to wax philosophic over in a dedicated thread.

    What ya think?
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    Carter for Clayton straight up? That would never happen - the Bucs would have to throw in a pick or 2, maybe a 2011 3rd and conditional 2012 pick or something.

    Even if you guys are right, and you can't attribute all 22 sacks from Carter and Rak last year to Haynesworth, he pressured the QB a lot, and allowed those two to get pressure on the QB a lot also. Now I hate Greg Blache's "sacks don't matter" attitude as much as the next guy, but QB pressures are the next best thing.
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  18. #18
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    It's not too complicated, really.

    Shanahan, Allen and Haslett have to balance the trouble AH can cause the team in terms of distraction, locker-room division, etc., with what good he can do them on the field (be an occasional ****ing beast when he wants to), and factor in whatever monetary considerations are in play (cap, a likely irritated-as-hell owner).

    They have to rely on game film, input from defensive leaders like Fletcher, Daniels and Carter, their team-building experience over the course of their careers, and the hopeful maturity of the guy holding the wallet.

    One would like to think that whatever long-term strategy they're employing today takes all those things, plus the other factors those of us not "in the room" don't know about, into account. And that they are flexible/have enough foresight to have contigency plans in place.

    See? Simple.
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    Eschew obfuscation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy Burner View Post
    First and foremost, Coach Shanahan and Manager Allen will not be able to change this franchise in just a few months. It will take another season at the very least. Trying to be patient is tough, but having the front office and coaching positions in relative stability is a great start.

    Albert Haynesworth will not command a premium trade value, but there is some good news to consider. Thus far, Allen has proven to be a shrewd dealer and has virtually "stolen" players from opposing teams. It wouldn't surprise me to see Allen make a superb trade before the season begins and we will receive more than a "Clayton" or some other player who would have little to no impact. A respectable draft pick is not out of the question either.

    Patience my friends. Patience.
    I think the jury is still out on Allen's wheelings and dealings. There are rumors floating around (heard one on NFL radio yesterday) that the Iggles never received any serious offers for Donovan. We'll know later in the season whether any of these low to mid level cost signings produce any return.

    to date...the positives I have seen from the new "regime":

    - the culture/lockerroom has changed

    - we have a coaching staff with experience, scheme and intelligence

    - the owner isn't venturing into areas he is less than qualified to engage in

    - we have a better (if term limited) QB

    - we drafted a solid left tackle

    otherwise...I think the wisdom of all the other moves is in the "pending further evidence" queue. that includes the inevitable responses such as "what about Armstrong?" and we have weakened future drafts...may be by necessity....but that pattern continues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    Hey Miles! (btw...loved you in the film Sideways!!!)

    You know..I was thinking this morning on the way to work about what has changed and what has stayed the same. This would likely be a good subject for all of us to wax philosophic over in a dedicated thread.

    What ya think?
    Go for it. Life is allowing me a bit of time to get involved here right now, so I'll surely chime in.
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