A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Injuries or not, this one we gotta have.

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    Default It's been 10 years........

    10 looooong years since the danny bought this team. Thought it'd be a good time for grades.

    Overall record - 66 - 78

    Three playoff appearances, two backing in and resulting in first round loses

    Money spent - A - I think we can all agree that the danny has never been shy about spending money. Now, whether he has spent wisely is another topic

    Player personel - D - He's had a few signings that have worked out, but there have been far too many Deion's, Smiths, Archellettas, etc

    Coaching personal - D+- The only thing that has saved him from a complete F is bringing back Gibbs. Firing Norv before the end of the season with a winning record was classless, the Shotty goatrope was a travesty, Spuurier (No need for further comment) and the as of yet undetermined Zorn experiment get him the D. That and his continued reliance on Cerrato plus the picture of Bill Cowher on his desk says it all.

    Player personnel - F -Need I say more? Far too much AL Davis type influence in this area

    Intangibles - D- Granted, he's made the Skins one of the most sucessful teams in the league, money-wise. But what has that gotten the regular fan? Higher ticket prices, parking prices, lack of parking or parking increases, obstructed view seats. The list goes on and and. And the only thing we've gotten is year after year of 8-8.

    Overall D-

    Thoughts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post

    Thoughts?
    I think it's too personal for you to give a completely fair assessment.

    Record? Yeah, it sucks, as far as being a Redskin fan. But, it's middle of the road in NFL terms.
    Grade C

    Playoff Appearances? I'd rather have the three, than not. And backed in or not, who cares. And, ask the Cowboys if they wish they had a playoff win in the last 15 years, much less 10. And, hell no I'm not satisfied with it.
    Grade C

    Player Personnel? It's always the case, that the boo boos draw more attention than the ok's. It's taken some time, partly due to having supply different coaches needs with different types of players, (yes he's responsible, mostly) but the rosters we've had since Gibbs came back, are much, MUCH improved over what Snyder inherited.
    Grade C+

    Coaching Personnel? Snyder, and therefore, we fans, were forced to endure Norval ****ing Turner when the NFL dicked around with the sale of the team for so long. On one hand, I agree firing the worthless bastard when he did might not have been the wisest move he's ever made, but I wouldn't call it classless. Especially since I thought a firing squad, no blindfold, was more in order. Firing Marty was a mistake. Made more glaring by the performance of Ole Shit-fer-brains. However, that sequence led to the return of Gibbs. Which I feel was equal to Lombardi coming here and changing the mindset of a bunch of losers. Time will tell if I'm right. So, where your F became a D because of Gibbs, my C- (Norval firing not as bad, IMO) jumps to a...
    Grade B-

    Intangibles? Ticket prices aren't the highest, and, he didn't build the stadium, or pick it's location, or create the parking issues, he inherited them. Maybe he could do more to fix it, maybe not.
    Grade C+

    Overall C+ And, it appears he's improving. We'll see.
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  3. #3

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    A friend of mine pointed that out to me earlier this week. Overall you canít give Dan a passing grade at this point.

    Whenever the subject of Dan comes up Iím always conflicted. On one hand I see a guy who is clearly wants the team to win. Heís also willing to put his money where his mouth is and has done so time after time. There arenít many owners willing to do that year after year. I know it pains him to have the team not be successful. On the other hand there are just too many credible stories about his personal antics and too many professional blunders to give the guy a pass.

    I knew it was time for Norv to go, but as Sarge said, the way it was handled was completely out of line. I loved the Schottenheimer hire and was very disappointed in the way that ended. The whole pay to watch training camp thing didnít make him any friends. The Spurrier hire, which I thought was a questionable move, but one which I remained optimistic about until about mid way through his first season, blew up in his face. That doesnít even take into account the teamsí numerous free agent signings, which impress the casual observer, but never seem to work out. The list goes on and on. Iíll stay away from the numerous first hand accounts weíve all heard of how he has been an absolute putz to employees (including Norv) but I canít completely discount that.

    Honestly though, all would be forgiven if he could put together a winner. Jack Kent Cooke was an abrasive guy at times but the only thing that comes to mind when I think of the guy now is the nice old guy in the hounds tooth hat hoisting the Lombardi Trophy.

    The Gibbs re-hire has been the only thing that gave his stint as owner any real substance. Virtually every other move has ended poorly. The jury is out on Zorn. As fans we all hope for the best. I HATE having to expect the worst. I donít do that in any other part of my life, but this team needs to prove it to me before I start giving them the benefit of the doubt again. Iím not going to make excuses for Dan or the team. Show me.

    Grade: D (See me after class....)
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    I agree with most of what you said here, Sarge.

    Overall I will give Danny a D+

    The reason I give Danny a D+ is his marketing and bringing back Joe Gibbs. He does knows how to make money.

    If it were not for those 2 reasons he would get an F, so to me Danny has been close to a total failure as a owner.
    Last edited by skinsfan44; 07-29-09 at 10:28 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    I think it's too personal for you to give a completely fair assessment.
    Hey, I didn't even mention the douche bag factor, for which he gets an "A+".

    Little story the old timers may remember. The day the sale of the team to danny was complete, the danny walked into Redskins Park and commenced firing people on the spot, even though those folks had received letters months before from the danny saying their jobs with the Skins were safe. He walks into the outer office where my Mom and another lady who worked for Mr Cooke had their desks and said to the other lady, "Get me a Coke". No "Hi", no "eff you" no nothing except "Get me a Coke". He goes into Mr Cookes office, stays a few minutes, then comes out and says to my Mom and the other lady "You're both through here. You have until five o'clock this afternoon to get your stuff out of your desks and be off the property. If you can't get your stuff out by five o'clock, you can come back at ten o'clock on Saturday and security will escort you in for 20 minutes to get your belongings"

    This pretty much went on throughout the building for the next day or two.

    From the couple of folks that my Mom still knows that worked there until recently, that is pretty much his demeanor full time

    Not too long afterward, everyone that was fired formed a club known as FEDS "Fired Employees of Dan Snyder". Bobby Mitchell is the honorary president. Every year they get together at a banquet, have dinner and throw darts at the dans picture. They all have dan snyder voo doo dolls that they fill full of pins prior to every season. My suspicion is that is why even the great Joe Gibbs couldn't get this team back to glory
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    I pretty much agree. The positive on Snyder is I believe he wants a winning team, will pay for a winning team, and has learned alot. I feel the next 10 years will be far more positive.
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    D

    If not for bringing back Joe Gibbs to at least take away some of the festering in Redskins Park, F------------

    Can you have that many minuses?
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    If I step back and look at the team through non colored glasses at what it is, a business, I have got to grade this team as an A+. At the end of the day that is really all it is, and the Dan has been very successful at making money as an owner.

    As for my Redskins fan opinion:

    Record? It sucks pretty bad, but at least I am not a Lion fan
    Grade C

    Playoff Appearances? Sure I’d love to have been in a lot more, but as bad as we have been in our division over all, if we were in the Western division, a lot of those years we would have been at the top of our division. The NFC east as a rule is pretty good.
    Grade D+

    Player Personnel? I’ve only had one cup of coffee this morning, and don’t have the time to type up what I really think. I’d just say that with “Most” of the signings over the years, we as fans were more times then not excited but this guy and that guy. Outside of Deon, I think most fans were. I’ve got to at least give him a B for effort.
    Grade B

    Coaching Personnel? Gibbs was a good move, or at least I thought it was. I also thought the hiring of Marty was a good move. Outside of that not too impressed by the moves, and I don’t have much love for Vinny as we speak.
    Grade C

    Intangibles? I have to agree with AX in this topic. Build us a new stadium though, cuz quite frankly the one we have now blows, and the Cowboys our out shinning us in this department HUGE.
    Grade C+

    Overall I give the team a C+ as a fan.

    My business side has to give them an A+, at the end of the day it’s all about money, and they have what looks like plenty.
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    I'm somewhere between you guys. I'd rate him somewhere close to the middle of the pack if we'd been close to .500 in the regular season with say a couple of more playoff appearances split about evenly between wins and losses.

    As it stands, a .460 winning pct puts us near the top end of being mediocre, thus I have to give him a D. As Sarge says, Danny gets credit for trying but more than offsets his willingness to spend with a lack of knowledge about what to spend his $$$ on **cough** OL/DL **cough, cough** Sure, we've made a concerted effort to upgrade the DL this offseason, but why did it take a decade to figure out that the game is won or lost in the trenches?

    FWIW Don Banks agrees with my assessment and ranks us 23rd for the decade...not that many Skins fans put much stock in any media types. For the record though, he ranks Dallas as 20th. Probably about right in both cases.

    Even more damning is that over the course of a decade, Snyder has yet to set a personality for who this team is whether we're winning or losing. If you look at the best teams in the league (Steelers, Patsies, Dolts etc.) they have all been built around being a certain type of team. The Steelers pride themselves on being hard-nosed and (mostly) running the ball, The Patsies are much like Gibbs' Redskins-smarter, better coached and will outhustle and outwork you. The Redskins under Snyder? We've gone from Martyball to the Fun-N-Gun and about everything else in between.

    In short, as I've said many times, we won't achieve sustained success until Snyder hires someone competent to run the football operations and steps away. Until then, I'll keep my handy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUBAKAH View Post
    Player Personnel? Iíve only had one cup of coffee this morning, and donít have the time to type up what I really think. Iíd just say that with ďMostĒ of the signings over the years, we as fans were more times then not excited but this guy and that guy. Outside of Deon, I think most fans were. Iíve got to at least give him a B for effort.
    Grade B

    Coaching Personnel? Gibbs was a good move, or at least I thought it was. I also thought the hiring of Marty was a good move. Outside of that not too impressed by the moves, and I donít have much love for Vinny as we speak.
    Grade C
    This is a large part of the problem Chewie. The lack of focus I mentioned earlier about who the team is also extends to player personnel moves. As has often been said, Snyder seems to have a "fantasy football" mentality rather than comprehensively assessing what personnel we have and what we're trying to build/maintain overall. In other words, there simply hasn't been a strategic view of personnel acqusition during Snyder's tenure here. And while Casserly was equally inept, at the very least he understood what he was trying to build-he just did a lousy job of selecting the players to do it with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    thats a good point Yusuf, we have no real identity to hang our hat on. We WERE hard nosed but then Spurrier came in and killed that. Marty tried to bring us back to it but it didnt seem to last.

    What is the closest thing to a label you can think of for this team?
    Blunderbusses maybe.
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    I know that we can't, but if we could, I think Snyder should be split into two categories, Before Gibbs, and Since Gibbs. As I said earlier, I think Snyder is improving, and I believe Gibbs return was the beginning of that process.

    So, that said, grading the team starting with Gibbs return, my guess is he'd get substantially better grades.

    Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think so.
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    Many think that Snyder could eventually grow into a successful hands-on owner. But to use a term that is popular when discussing another Redskin, I just don't think that Daniel Snyder has 'it'.

    I view him as Jerry Jones without the people skills or Bill Bidwell with money. If the Washington Redskins are to eventually become a successful franchise again under Snyder, it will be despite him not because of him.

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    Backing into the playoffs?? Maybe I'm unfamiliar with the term, but I thought that meant you lost your last few games, but still made the playoffs. Both of our recent playoff runs were not this way - 2005 we had to win 5-straight to make the playoffs and did on the back of a powerful run-game. Even won a playoff game. In 2007 we had to win 4-straight, including a thrashing of the Cowgirls, limiting them to 1-yard rushing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    I know that we can't, but if we could, I think Snyder should be split into two categories, Before Gibbs, and Since Gibbs. As I said earlier, I think Snyder is improving, and I believe Gibbs return was the beginning of that process.

    So, that said, grading the team starting with Gibbs return, my guess is he'd get substantially better grades.

    Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think so.
    I think thatís fair.

    This season, and how things end up, will tell us a lot about where Dan is as an owner. Everything hinges on the play on the field of course but the players on that field, the pseudo GM, and the coach running the show is something he has to directly take the credit or blame for. Thatís the down side of being so involved with the process, much like Jerry Jones down in Dallas, though Jerry is more up front about it. You KNOW heís involved in personnel decisions because he tells you he is.

    If things go well Danís decisions become easy; Zorn stays, Vinny stays, Campbell stays and things start looking up. If Zorn/Campbell fails to get it done this season (Iím talking playoffs) how will Dan react? Will he give the situation more time? Will he trade away the draft for a new QB? Will Zorn be fired? Will Vinny remain in his current role? The answers to those questions will tell us a lot more about where Dan is than anything. Would any of us be surprised if his reactions were short sighted or if he decided just to throw money at the problem in one way or another? Me neither. We shall see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Hey, I didn't even mention the douche bag factor, for which he gets an "A+".

    Little story the old timers may remember. The day the sale of the team to danny was complete, the danny walked into Redskins Park and commenced firing people on the spot, even though those folks had received letters months before from the danny saying their jobs with the Skins were safe. He walks into the outer office where my Mom and another lady who worked for Mr Cooke had their desks and said to the other lady, "Get me a Coke". No "Hi", no "eff you" no nothing except "Get me a Coke". He goes into Mr Cookes office, stays a few minutes, then comes out and says to my Mom and the other lady "You're both through here. You have until five o'clock this afternoon to get your stuff out of your desks and be off the property. If you can't get your stuff out by five o'clock, you can come back at ten o'clock on Saturday and security will escort you in for 20 minutes to get your belongings"

    This pretty much went on throughout the building for the next day or two.

    From the couple of folks that my Mom still knows that worked there until recently, that is pretty much his demeanor full time

    Not too long afterward, everyone that was fired formed a club known as FEDS "Fired Employees of Dan Snyder". Bobby Mitchell is the honorary president. Every year they get together at a banquet, have dinner and throw darts at the dans picture. They all have dan snyder voo doo dolls that they fill full of pins prior to every season. My suspicion is that is why even the great Joe Gibbs couldn't get this team back to glory
    dayumn! i've always heard he was a douche, but i've never known specifically why. i've always given him the benefit of the doubt, but your post really hits home. the true measure of a man is how he treats those who he thinks can do him absolutely no good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Hey, I didn't even mention the douche bag factor, for which he gets an "A+".
    My Father and another co-worker used to cut Jay Brunetti's hair. Guy worked himself up to Equipment Manager, starting by mowing lawns. He pretty much echoes the same story as you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beamish View Post
    dayumn! i've always heard he was a douche, but i've never known specifically why. i've always given him the benefit of the doubt, but your post really hits home. the true measure of a man is how he treats those who he thinks can do him absolutely no good.
    Now you know...the rest of the story

    Quote Originally Posted by ntotoro View Post
    My Father and another co-worker used to cut Jay Brunetti's hair. Guy worked himself up to Equipment Manager, starting by mowing lawns. He pretty much echoes the same story as you.
    You know what they say, when you hear the same story twice, it's no longer a rumor

    I met Jay a few times, always liked the guy. He got let go a few years back too, didn't he?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    You know what they say, when you hear the same story twice, it's no longer a rumor

    I met Jay a few times, always liked the guy. He got let go a few years back too, didn't he?
    Yeah, he's the Equipment Manager for the Texans now. My Dad tells me he's much happier, from the times he has been back here and talked about it...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntotoro View Post
    Yeah, he's the Equipment Manager for the Texans now. My Dad tells me he's much happier, from the times he has been back here and talked about it...
    Ahh, followed Charlie did he? That's cool. Most all former employees are much happier away from the danny. I'm glad things worked out for him.
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