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    Default "Inside Secret Government Warehouses" New TV show

    Did anyone else see this on tv last night? I ran across it while surfing through channels, and procrastinating on going to bed.

    Lester Holt was the commentator. Pretty respected newsman. 99.9999% of these shows are total speculation, and a waste of time imho. But this one last night was worth catching, should you see it on your tv guide.

    I don't want to give away the big spoiler, but it was Area 51 related, and for the first time ever, provides clear visual evidence that the government has been lying about the facility.

    Did anyone else see this? Great show.
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    Irrefutable?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    Irrefutable?
    Yes, no doubt about it. I'm not big on tin foil threads, or the tv shows, for that matter.

    Clear visual evidence that shows there are definitely operations going on there--completely against what the government has been claiming.

    In most of the ridiculous shows, you see people driving up to the security line, you see the cameras, and you see the SUVs and security pull up quickly. Then the show ends, with no conclusions.

    In this show, Lester Holt went to the air to provide a closer look.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    Yes, no doubt about it. I'm not big on tin foil threads, or the tv shows, for that matter.

    Clear visual evidence that shows there are definitely operations going on there--completely against what the government has been claiming.

    In most of the ridiculous shows, you see people driving up to the security line, you see the cameras, and you see the SUVs and security pull up quickly. Then the show ends, with no conclusions.

    In this show, Lester Holt went to the air to provide a closer look.
    Of course I am displaying contempt prior to investigation, but I question Lester Holt being allowed into the air space close to the site if the government is hiding something. I am going to have to look into it, not to prove you wrong just I don't have much trust for Holt.
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    I thought the exact same thing. On ground, they only let visitors get 9 miles or so from what is believed to be the epicenter of the operations.

    By air? 3 miles. And on a sunny day.

    Definitely the best conspiracy type show I have seen on such a topic.

    Plus, he revealed some pretty cool class-action lawsuits filed by former workers of Area 51 against the government, claiming sickness from working conditions. And how the cases were finally ended, and the documents concealed by Presidential order.

    Definitely worth checking out if that sort of thing interests you.

    Here is a link describing the series a little more in detail:

    http://eclipsemagazine.com/television/17635/

    And an early review I just found: http://www.daemonstv.com/2010/07/10/...-early-review/

    It is on the Sci_Fi channel, on Sunday nights. Now, last night's show, the season premiere, may turn out to be the best of all. That would make sense to draw in the viewers. It focused mainly on Area 51.

    But it seems they will be focusing on other installations over the Summer. Good tv viewing to pass the time until football.
    Last edited by McD5; 07-12-10 at 04:08 PM.
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    I hear they've got all that cool loot that was supposed to be in Capone's safe too.

    Then again, maybe they are hiding something out there. Naahhhhh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    Irrefutable?
    I missed this show due to other circumstances getting in the way-and I usually take a very skeptical view of conspiracy theories as you know. I will, however try to see a re-showing if possible to get a starting point on further investigation.

    I do have a couple of questions based on what I read in this thread, first, El, if you would, please tell me how you classify evidence into "irrefutable" versus "refutable"-this would be helpful in ascertaining the degree to which evidence will be acceptable. Second, is there something about Lester Holt that might cause a doubt about the presentation? He seems, from what I've read, to be a highly regarded reporter and I'm curious as to the nature of your doubt. Thanks.
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    I call BS. There is no way, NO WAY, that guy got within three miles of Dreamland without picking up at least a King Air escort, if not fighters. The airspace around that facility is restricted, meaning you have to have prior permission to enter. That ain't happenin' for some reporter. The airspace also runs out much further than three miles, and on top of that there is additional restricted airspace surrounding the restricted airspace.
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    Sarge is clearly part of the conspiracy.

    Haven't seen the program(s) this time around, but have seen several over the years. I always come back to the same basic question/observation.

    I have zero problem believing the US military carries on "secret" operations re development of tactical air systems, and "Area 51" may be such a facility. I hope the US military is carrying them on ... we know the bad guys are.

    What I have never really understood is the leap conspiracists--and even many just not as skeptical as I about such things--make from there being a common sense "coverup" (do you want Geraldo Rivera doing exposees about the latest air defense sytem?) in place to safeguard military development work, and said work necessarily involving test flying spaceships (and doing autopsies on bodies) recovered from Roswell and/or other otherworldly sources.

    Top secret air testing? Well, yeah.

    Little green men? I'm thinking no.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    Sarge is clearly part of the conspiracy.
    Indeed. That's part of your job when you sign up, and you're committed to it for the rest of your life.

    When ever we see clever folks like Holt getting too close to our Andorians, we go to work throwing out smokescreens by putting out ludicrous assertations that there's no way anyone on the ground or in the air got within 3 miles of Dreamland because of "restricted airspace"

    People have been buying that one for years now
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    Serv,

    There was no hidden understanding of the term, irrefuatble, although I admit it was rather vague. I think Om stated precisely how I feel. While I am convinced the government is conducting highly secretive testing I am not convinced, rather highly skeptical of the green man conspiracy.

    As far as the Lest Holt comment, it has less to do with Holt, who may just be playing along, as it is my distrust for NBC News. But I have to question any man who claims to have gotten as close to a facility as highly guarded as this one "should be".

    Like I stated in my following comments, I am guilty of contempt prior to investigation. I have not seen this show. Between the NBC association and the fact that it is hard to believe they got as close as it has been suggested, my contempt seems warranted in my estimation.
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    ****Spoiler Alert**** If you don't want to know what they verified, don't read this.***


    ****You sure you want to read it, before the show?***


    Here is how the show differered from any others before it. The show was more of a dateline NBC, meets Area 51, rather than a conspiracy show. They simply attempted to shoot down some claims and hoaxes, but to investigate some claims by the government that have seemed absurd.

    I came away from the show, feeling like OM stated earlier. There is no question, contrary to what the government has been saying, that it is a very active base. That is no longer refutable. Exactly what they are doing there, is pure speculation. Here is what they did.

    By car, 9 miles is the security line. By air, it is only 3 miles. Knowing this, they checked weather forecasts for the sunniest day, and prepared for a helicopter to take them as close to Area 51 as possible on that given day.

    The cameras inside the helicopter, verify a few things that the government has previously denied.

    1. While in the helicopter, military air traffic control can be heard directing one of the "Janet" planes in for a landing. "Janet" planes are the unmarked planes that conspiracy theorists believe carry employees into Area 51 on a daily basis.

    Earlier in the show, they had alleged former employees talk about, and shoot video of, these airplanes. This is how they claim they entered the facilities.

    So the Janet planes definitely exist, and were flying in for landings into Area 51. No question about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_(airline)

    2. For the first time ever, two extremely large buildings, warehouse/compound style have been visually confirmed in the helicopter ride. It was clear enough to finally confirm that these buildings exist. Again, against what the government has claimed.

    3. And finally visual confirmation of a large airplane runway right next to these buildings.

    What they are doing there no one can prove. That they are doing something there, can no longer be denied.

    Another highlight of the show was hearing the military threaten to shoot down the helicopter with deadly force if it moved any closer to the facility.

    Great stuff.
    Last edited by McD5; 07-13-10 at 12:25 PM.
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    Look guys, it's an Air Force base. Before Google Earth came along, the Air Force denied it's exisitance. As more and more UFO guys came along, the Air Force finally admitted it exisited, but never, and will never, admit to what is going on out there.


    By air, it is only 3 miles. Knowing this, they checked weather forecasts, and prepared for a helicopter to take them as close to Area 51 as possible on that given day.

    As to the air portion of the security line, this is bunk, as I said previously. Tower airspace everywhere goes out to five miles

    On top of that, no pilot in their right mind, that values their hard earned pilot's license, is going to violate restricted airspace. Sure, you can play hte "I'm lost" card (although that's getting harder and harder with GPS) but when authorities find out there's a reporter on board (and they will find out when the aircraft lands) the game will be up.

    Whenever this shows on TV, my advice would be "grain of salt"
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    It was good stuff Sarge. There were many highlights, but hearing the air traffic controller's voice, as he was landing in the Janet plane may have been the best. He called the plane in, and then immediately said "Helicopter xxxx, don't think we can't see you. There is a 3 mile security zone which you are aware of, and are at right now. Turn the helicopter around immediately, or you can be taken down with deadly force."

    The atc sounded a little shocked, like the helicopter suddenly appeared in his periphery.

    And they had to go to 6 different helicopter pilots before they found one that agreed to fly the host up over the area.

    In another section of the show, they investigated class action lawsuits, recently filed by many workers claiming they had become sick after working on the site.

    The workers all complained of "fish-like scales" taking over their skin. And they showed pictures of some of the complaints. None of the photographic experts thought they were photo-shopped, or doctored.

    They traced the progress of those cases, noting that the government never denied their existence or claims--which you would think the government would have liked to shoot down.

    The cases were settled, files confiscated, and closed by a Presidential order. It was very recent, either Bush or Obama sealing them from public view.

    Definitely different from prior "Sasquatch" hysterical shows. More fact-oriented, with real reporting.
    Last edited by McD5; 07-13-10 at 12:45 PM.
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    He may have gotten to within three miles of the restricted airspace, which is a good 10-15 miles around the base, but I can promise that he didn't get within three miles of the base proper. Honestly, he probably wouldn't have lived to tell the tale.

    As for the medical issues, I'd probably have an easier time believing that. The military is infamous for putting people in toxic places and playing ignorant about it

    I was in an ATC lab one day in the mid 90's and some workmen came in to start tearing out some walls to prepare for a remodel. There was dust everywhere. The next day we came to work and the lab was sealed with warning signs to have resporators on. No doubt they sprinkled the asbestos all over us.
    Last edited by Sarge; 07-13-10 at 01:19 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    I remember a show many years ago talking about the planes taking them to and from work and I remember my friend saying, "Talk about a big risk going to work. You not only worry about car crashes but now a plane one too."

    And 2 buildings..dun dun duuuuuuun!!

    Personally I believe they do all kinds of experimental and maybe even extraterrestrial stuff on that site and in Roswell. I dont believe were alone in this universe; its just too big.
    The physical ailments lead me to believe they are certainly doing something either radioactive, or harmful to one's health.

    Also, the security guys in the SUVs, that drive sit on top of the hills waiting to stop curious onlookers sure seem to have a comfy job.
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    I still haven't seen it yet but I must admit my normal response to things like this "Shocking Expose of Hidden Military stuff" pretty much falls into line with what Om, and especially Sarge have said. It's true that the military does things that are deliberately kept from public knowledge. I know this personally because I worked for several years in quality control for a DoD contractor doing things for the USAF and USN that I am not able to go into any great detail about-(yeah, Sarge, I had a clearance myself-never mind the level). As has been pointed out such things are a necessary part of the government's job of defense-the control of information availability makes it harder for potential enemies to take away advantages the military may need. It is true, also as Sarge has pointed out, that there have been downside effects of the control of information and it's most probably, I would think, one of those "impossible to make a cut-and-dried decision" one way or the other but a prioritizing and weighing of upsides and downsides like everything else.

    As far as how believable the actual content may be, remembering that I haven't seen this episode yet, I tend to take Sarge's information as most likely to be fact-based in terms of an analysis of what can and can't be accomplished as far as trying to do an "expose" on what the government is up to in this area. He does have first-hand experience here.

    Om, I'll have to look for it, but I did run across an article in a journal of cognitive psychology studying the human proclivity toward "conspiracy creation". A notable part, of course, is the phenomenon of apophenia-the making of mental connections that cannot be demonstrated with verifiable evidence-that exists in varying amounts in every person. The trick is in, one, knowing you have it and, two, being willing to test your conclusions against tendencies toward confirmation bias and other data-filtering mechanisms present in our thinking and emotional responses as I posted about elsewhere.


    The whole "little-green-man" thing is, I think, possibly a result of just how compelling the idea is of encountering an intelligent species form somewhere else. In other words, confirmation bias-we want it to be true so badly that we don't want to wait for actual, as El put it so well, irrefutable- evidence but make assumptions, confer on them a "this is true" status and then invent a conspiracy to "explain" the lack of confirmatory data. This happens all the time and, slipping into a conspiratiorial mode myself, I wonder if "sensationalist" tv like this may be done because the producers know from experience that it's a guaranteed rapt audience?
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    I did see this program, and it was good, but not "irrefutable" IMO.

    Holt seemed to make a big deal of the "Use of deadly force beyond this point authorized" sign. That's actually pretty standard fare for AFBs, in my experience. I've personally seen the same signs at Andrews and McGuire.

    Of course Andrews makes sense, being the home of Air Force One. At McGuire, I think it was just to keep people off of the flight line, but I'm not sure.

    I'm always skeptical when someone implies something sinister when they encounter something that is pretty much standard. Not saying that that discounts the entire report, but it makes me wonder.

    Additionally, I would tend to think that if there was something way beyond Top Secret there, that the military would use its own security; not civilian contractors. But that's just my opinion.

    There is SOMETHING there. I'm just not prepared to say that it's ETs and/or their spacecraft.
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    Quote Originally Posted by servumtuum View Post
    The whole "little-green-man" thing is, I think, possibly a result of just how compelling the idea is of encountering an intelligent species form somewhere else. In other words, confirmation bias-we want it to be true so badly that we don't want to wait for actual, as El put it so well, irrefutable- evidence but make assumptions, confer on them a "this is true" status and then invent a conspiracy to "explain" the lack of confirmatory data. This happens all the time and, slipping into a conspiratiorial mode myself, I wonder if "sensationalist" tv like this may be done because the producers know from experience that it's a guaranteed rapt audience?
    Of course. Every type of programming we watch is designed to draw viewers and sell advertising. From football to ghost hunting, that's true.

    I'm not sure that our view of ETs is as much confirmation bias as it is simple logic though. I'm not sure that aliens have visited us. In fact, I'm pretty skeptical of that idea. However, given an infinite number of stars in the universe like our sun, and presumably an infinite number of planets like our earth orbiting them, I think it is VERY likely we're not the only life out there.

    Also, keep in mind that we say "life as we know it" for a reason. I think it's also entirely possible that there could be lifeforms out there that don't need things like water and oxygen. Not saying that you do, but believing we're alone is frankly pretty danged arrogant, IMHO.
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    Perhaps I misstated myself. I think it's highly likely that life of human-level or greater intelligence exists elsewhere in the universe and quite possibly in the Milky Way Galaxy and science has already discovered life on this planet, called "extremeophiles" that live in conditions of zero oxygen, temperatures and acidity conditions that would kill most other life we're accustomed to. I used the "little green men" metaphor in the context of the leaps to unwarranted conclusions that have hstorically been made concerning the nature of Area 51. We want the government to a.) know about them, and b.) be hiding them from us because it confirms a world-view of sinister forces-in this case the government-operating to thwart our ability to make encountered reality match the one we have constructed in our minds.
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