A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Disagree Disagree:  0
Post of the Year Post of the Year:  0
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-19-09
    Location
    Bethesda Md
    Posts
    6,757
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)

    Default Shanahan and Allen: The Politics of the Possible

    CSN's Rich Tandler posted a column this week about the Redskins once again being among the oldest rosters in the NFL, right ahead of the Saints and Vikings (not bad company to be in, eh?).

    Some critics might question why a new coach and GM are not tearing the team down to an even more basic level and building over again with the likes of Jimmy Claussen at QB and UDFA running backs and linemen.

    What Shanahan and Allen bring to the Redskins for the first time in 20 plus years is pragmatism.

    Rather than tear down in a year where the picks are limited and the free agent class is the thinnest in a decade to the uncapped year, the Redskins quite correctly decided that priorty #1 was to simply upgrade the talent, and not worry about the relative age of the players retained vs. obtained.

    Mitigating the risk of signing older players who could have durability issues going forward is the fact the team is keeping most of these deals short-term and composed largely of performanced-based incentives.

    Tandler's review noted the increase in age at several key spots, including QB, RT, RB, etc.

    But the concomitant to that is the definite increase in talent now at those spots.

    I haven't been able to find too many folks that would argue that McNabb for Campbell, Jammal Brown for Stephon Heyer and Larry Johnson for Betts/Mason/Ganther, etc. were good swaps for the Redskins.

    I would also suggest that players such as the 38 year old Joey Galloway, 34 year old Chris Draft and 33 year old Mike Furrey might not be on the final roster as other players emerge in camp when the pads go on or as other NFL teams make key veterans available.

    Once the Redskins found out that the Rams were asking for the the balance of the Redskins draft for the next 2 years to acquire the top pick and select Bradford, Washington figured out that path would only set the team back and put them in 3-13 or 4-12 range again for 2010 and perhaps 2011 as well.

    The fact the other quarterbacks available were not considered to be franchise talents presented Washington with the choice of taking a high risk on a potential bust or trading for the best quarterback in the NFC East over the past 8-10 years in Donovan McNabb.

    The acquisition of the veteran McNabb meant the team needed to make other moves to re-tool rather than rebuild the roster given McNabb's potential timeline in the NFL.

    Once again, that was the practical and reasonable judgment.

    The drafting of Williams and the trade for Brown represented a sea change in capability on the OL. Going from Levi Jones and Stephon Heyer to Williams and Brown is perhaps the greatest single season jump in talent at OT I have seen on this team since 1981.

    On the other side of the ball, the Redskins took a good bet on Maake Kemoeatu and his ability to rebound from injury to play a significant role in 2010. He is on pace to be ready for camp and his presence as a true nose tackle for the 3-4 will elevate the defense with or without the presence of Albert Haynesworth. There were really no other potential front line starters at NT available in FA or via trade in the offseason.

    The fact he has been playing out of position in a 4-3 the past 3 years in Carolina presents the opportunity for him to be more effective this year in Washington back at NT than he had been for the Panthers for $9M under John Fox.

    I don't know whether Adam Carriker is an NFL starter or rotation player in the 3-4, but he was available and acquired for next to nothing by the coach that drafted him and started him as a rookie. It would appear Carriker is another guy that got caught in a 4-3/3-4 switch that went against his skill set as a DE. No one knows Carriker better than Haslett and as with Pierson Prioleau and London Fletcher under Williams the Redskins are likely to reap the extra benefits of acquiring players where the coaching staff is able to use them to the maximum of their talent.

    After a 4-12 season Shanahan and Allen saw the most important thing going forward in 2010 was to get this team back to respectability and competitiveness in the NFC.

    Once teams get down to 2-14 or 4-12 it can become the start of a sequence of years where teams develop the mentality of an also-ran.

    I think the feeling within the Redskins organization is a return to a solid performance in 2010 will result in the team being able to recruit better free agents in 2011 (assuming a season will be played) and set the team up to move forward even more swiftly through the 2011 and 2012 seasons.

    As I have posted elsewhere I think the Redskins will make several moves over the summer to add veterans for depth as they become available.

    I also see one more major move left in the team, namely the acquisition of a playmaking wide receiver.

    Vincent Jackson may or may not be the option chosen, but the team's interest in him shows they are clearly not comfortable tossing the keys to the car in the hands of Thomas and Kelly.

    Jackson's value has been diminished by the 3 game suspension, his salary demands as a restricted free agent, and by the fact a third DUI could land him on a one year ban from the NFL from Roger Goddell.

    AJ Smith may have been angling for two #2's or a #1 for Jackson, but the fact remains the Saints were originally looking for a #2 pick for Jammal Brown before the draft from the Redskins.

    They ended up settling for less. And San Diego likely will as well.

    That said, if not Jackson I believe Shanahan has a list of other WRs who fit his offense and could come in over the summer and be productive within a short period of time working with McNabb and Kyle Shanahan.

    I would be VERY surprised to see Thomas, Kelly, Galloway, Furrey and Armstrong being the depth at WR behind Santana Moss heading into the opener.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  2. #2

    Join Date
    06-30-09
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    4,086
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    25

    Default

    That's a true BGO caliber post, sir. Exactly what I want and expect to see here, even in the heat of the summer when there is zilch in the news to really talk about. Great job.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    Subscribe to our BGO Mailing List

    hailus redskinus
    COYS

  3. #3
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    10-16-09
    Posts
    53
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    fantastic post BD...i enjoyed reading that a lot!!

  4. #4
    kirbster
    Honored Guest

    Default

    Excellent work. Pleasure reading on a hot July day!
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  5. #5

    Vescere bracis meis

    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Mechanicsville, VA
    Posts
    807
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    VCU

    Default

    Worst post ever!

    What.....someone had to say it. We don't want him getting all full of himself or anything.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin.
    H. L. Mencken

  6. #6

    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Posts
    7,589
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    as ever......thought provoking post BD!

    questions:

    -you didn't address to what degree you think a desire to win now is motivating roster moves (i.e., roster moves reflect more than just limited draft picks but a reluctance to wait the several years it takes to develop & professionalize a young core)

    - you suggest the roster moves are Shanahan creations. I think this reflects more bruce allen than Shanny. Your feelings?

    -what's your assessment on Vinny's part in success this upcoming season? he made a whole slew of bonehead moves....but many of the players on the roster this upcoming season will be his legacy

    - I spoke to a Denver fan the other day. loved Shanny but was well aware that following his last SB Shanny had lost his touch for years on end....not just a couple years. are the Skins inheriting this?

    I'd refrain from any optimistic assessments about the O-line. not thinking negatively - just realize that the line is all about integration and familiarity and less about overt talent.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  7. #7

    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Posts
    7,589
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    btw...any thoughts on Hicks versus Williams? This one will be fun to track......
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  8. #8
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    11-10-09
    Posts
    111
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    I spoke to a Denver fan the other day. loved Shanny but was well aware that following his last SB Shanny had lost his touch for years on end....not just a couple years. are the Skins inheriting this?
    Well, this Shanahan that "lost his touch" was still able to coach a team to six winning seasons in the 10 years following the SB, four of which were 10 wins or better. While Mike did not get back to a SB during this stretch, which is what the goal should be, I'll take his 1999-2008 record over the BS we've put up with in Snyder's reign of error so far.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  9. #9
    2016 BGO Survivor Champ

    Join Date
    08-01-09
    Location
    My location
    Posts
    11,499
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Florida State

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    ...

    - I spoke to a Denver fan the other day. loved Shanny but was well aware that following his last SB Shanny had lost his touch for years on end....not just a couple years. are the Skins inheriting this?

    ...
    This is one of the reasons I was pushing for someone younger at the head coach position. It was my contention that a younger coach, while lacking experience, has a certain hunger. I was looking for a fresh young coach with hunger to come in with an older GM with the experience to give said coach the players he needs and fortitude to stand up to Snyder. It was my hope, although unlikely, that Snyder would have brought in Marty Shottenheimer to run the front office and his son Brian to take over the team.

    I think we have a better situation than that now, although I am still ytying to contain my level of excitement. It appears that Shanahan's termination in Denver has awakened his hunger. I believe that he and Allen are making this team better. I believe his son Kyle could be the heir apparent, being the fresh young coach I thought Brian Shottenheimer could be.

    Ultimately, I am reserving my all too familiar levels of hope. I have been stung enough over the last ten years, but as the season approaches, I am starting to get a little antsy.
    Last edited by Elephant; 07-07-10 at 10:05 AM.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  10. #10

    Vescere bracis meis

    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Mechanicsville, VA
    Posts
    807
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    VCU

    Default

    I think you’re right Elephant; Kyle is the heir apparent if things go well here in DC for poppa Mike. I don’t have a problem with that, if he’s successful of course. Kyle has done nice work on the offensive side of the ball in Houston and should be able to do good things here as well. He just needs a little more seasoning and he’ll be ready for a head coaching spot, if not here then certainly somewhere.

    Mike was not my first choice for our new head coach, but the more time I have to see him operate the more I like the guy, he’s a pro. Allen was the big score in my mind though. I don’t think there could have been a better fit for us as GM. Not only does he bring experience and sanity to a front office that has been out of control since Marty was here, but he also gives us that link to the past that fans like me have felt has been missing for so long. Even the last name holds weight in DC.

    After a 4 and 12 season it’s tempting to think that we needed to blow it all up and start fresh. That’s tough to do in today’s NFL and it’s not needed at this stage. Making that type of rebuild work involves time and a lot of luck. The Lions have been “rebuilding” since Barry Sanders retired. Who would have thought Lions fans would be looking back fondly on the Wayne Fontes years? In our case blowing things up would have involved fining a franchise QB in the draft, not a simple proposition in itself, as well as filling all of the other holes that appear in the time it takes this young QB to develop. We took the surer path of bringing in a solid vet who still has some tread on the tires. That’s was just smarter given the situation. It buys us time to develop the next guy while still giving us a great chance to win now.

    Would our old GM have done that? I think we would have drafted Jimmy Clausen and would have pressed to have him start asap. Either that or the Eagles would have fleeced us for a first round pick (or more) and then we may have drafted Clausen anyway. That’s not to belittle Clausen he might turn out to be great; it’s more to speak to Vinny’s skill as a GM.

    A lot of people are playing wait and see with the new staff here and I understand that completely. Me, I’ve already bought in. I think they can make this work. I think this team can be very competitive this year. Are we bound for a playoff spot? Well, I don’t want to get carried away…….yet. Some early season success will have me pulling the cover off the bandwagon and giving her a tune up.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin.
    H. L. Mencken

  11. #11

    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,516
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Florida Atlantic

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hog Fever View Post
    After a 4 and 12 season it’s tempting to think that we needed to blow it all up and start fresh. That’s tough to do in today’s NFL and it’s not needed at this stage.

    Exactly. Remember, this team was only a few points a game and a few breaks away from a 10-6, 12-4 season in Zorn's first year here.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  12. #12
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Posts
    824
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    CSN's Rich Tandler posted a column this week about the Redskins once again being among the oldest rosters in the NFL, right ahead of the Saints and Vikings (not bad company to be in, eh?).

    ...What Shanahan and Allen bring to the Redskins for the first time in 20 plus years is pragmatism.

    Rather than tear down in a year where the picks are limited and the free agent class is the thinnest in a decade to the uncapped year, the Redskins quite correctly decided that priorty #1 was to simply upgrade the talent, and not worry about the relative age of the players retained vs. obtained.

    ...The fact the other quarterbacks available were not considered to be franchise talents presented Washington with the choice of taking a high risk on a potential bust or trading for the best quarterback in the NFC East over the past 8-10 years in Donovan McNabb.

    The acquisition of the veteran McNabb meant the team needed to make other moves to re-tool rather than rebuild the roster given McNabb's potential timeline in the NFL.

    Once again, that was the practical and reasonable judgment.
    Great post Doppelganger.

    Most of you who have read my posts over the years know that I'm far from a homer. However, I've thought about it for some time now and I think we've had one of the best offseasons of any team leaguewide. Really.

    First and by far most importantly, Snyder finally performed an Cerratectomy on a cancer that should have been excised long ago. The value of that move alone is immeasurable. Practical, reasonable, pragmatic, what a refreshing sea change in how we're now doing things!

    The direct result of the Cerrato lumpectomy, is that in contrast to the way we've done business for the last decade, we finally allowed things to come to us, rather than repeatedly trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. That was usually followed by "fixes" that seemingly always amounted to ever bigger hammers to force the peg to go where it wasn't meant to.

    In this case, as BD pointed out, that meant going with the flow of what was available and getting a bit older in exchange for making a quantum leap talent wise at some key positions...QB in particular. Most importantly, we did so without giving away everything and the kitchen sink.

    So even though getting younger is generally better, Allahan seems willing to pursue that goal within the overall context of what's actually, yep, practical and reasonable. IMHO this is exactly what Andy Reid screwed up on by his dogged devotion to his management formula of letting aging vets go.

    So sure McNabb is sporting a fair amount of mileage, but he's still got plenty of tread left at a position where it's not unheard of for guys to play, and play well far into their Geritol years. If part of what has kept McNabb from getting over the hump was Reid's offense, team management style, or something else unique to Philthy, we could be looking at a nice little three or four year run...not to mention the end of the Andy Reid era in Philthy.

    What all of this does for us, assuming we're smart enough to stay the course, is it puts us in a position to continue to go with the flow instead of continually trying to go against the grain. So we can draft a QB (or multiple QBs) of the future later in the draft and develop him/them over time behind McNabb. At RB, we're now in good position to bide our time with CPo until his contract parameters allow us to let him go when it's more pragmatic for us to do so. Ditto that with Blubberbutt Haynesworth to a degree. In other words, we've stopped the bleeding, set the stage for continued methodical and orderly progress toward true excellence and are fairly well positioned for the future, i.e. Shanny Jr.

    I'll say again that I'm expecting a 10 or 11 win season this year followed by a serious run at a SB in the 2011 and/or perhaps 2012 seasons. Finally, finally, I can feel truly confident in saying the future is so bright, I've gotta.... well, you know.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” --Thomas Paine

 

 

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •