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  1. #1
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    Default Six months to go until the largest tax hikes in history

    http://www.atr.org/sixmonths.html?content=5171


    In just six months, the largest tax hikes in the history of America will take effect. They will hit families and small businesses in three great waves on January 1, 2011:

    First Wave: Expiration of 2001 and 2003 Tax Relief

    In 2001 and 2003, the GOP Congress enacted several tax cuts for investors, small business owners, and families. These will all expire on January 1, 2011:

    Personal income tax rates will rise. The top income tax rate will rise from 35 to 39.6 percent (this is also the rate at which two-thirds of small business profits are taxed). The lowest rate will rise from 10 to 15 percent. All the rates in between will also rise. Itemized deductions and personal exemptions will again phase out, which has the same mathematical effect as higher marginal tax rates. The full list of marginal rate hikes is below:

    - The 10% bracket rises to an expanded 15%
    - The 25% bracket rises to 28%
    - The 28% bracket rises to 31%
    - The 33% bracket rises to 36%
    - The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%

    Higher taxes on marriage and family. The “marriage penalty” (narrower tax brackets for married couples) will return from the first dollar of income. The child tax credit will be cut in half from $1000 to $500 per child. The standard deduction will no longer be doubled for married couples relative to the single level. The dependent care and adoption tax credits will be cut.

    The return of the Death Tax. This year, there is no death tax. For those dying on or after January 1 2011, there is a 55 percent top death tax rate on estates over $1 million. A person leaving behind two homes and a retirement account could easily pass along a death tax bill to their loved ones.


    Read more: http://www.atr.org/sixmonths.html?co...#ixzz0sZuzJivV
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  2. #2
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    But, but, but....no tax increases on anyone making under $250,000!!!!

    I have never seen anyone prove himself to be as colossal a cluster (bomb) of a president in such a short period of time.

    Oh, I'm sure Pelosi and Reid, et al, will feed us the same line of bull**** they have before. "We're not raising taxes. We're allowing the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans to expire."

    Good news, y'all. Apparently we're ALL wealthy! Woohoo!!!!
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  3. #3
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    Just as bad, about second week of November, we will find out just how bad the economy is. The Dems and media will put a positive spin on things right up to the election.

    Don't feel this will be a double-dip recession, since don't think we ever came out of it in first place. Honestly concerned things could get bad. Many are predicting an economic perfect storm.
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    honorary...best wishes for your mom.

    talk to friends in the small bidniz community......what a mess!
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  5. #5
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    Tax hikes! Tax hikes! Oh noes!! Rabble rabble rabble. How many of you actually make in excess of $376K? Most of us (me included) will actually see a decrease or no change in our personal taxes. Here's what the truth of this "historic" tax hike actually looks like.


    But hey, I'm willing to hear you guys' side of this. If any of you would like to donate enough $$$ to my personal income in order to get my wife and me up to the point where we'd hit the max tax rate, I'll be more than happy to beyotch and moan about all those extra taxes along with you. Anyone?

    More importantly though, has anyone given enough real thought to this issue to ask a relatively simple question? Namely, should we have been cutting taxes in the first place while trying to fight two wars concurrently? That's sort of like cutting your hours at work after buying a home and a new car. It just doesn't make sense....unless you've bought into the Reagan nonsense that cutting taxes increases tax revenue. However our current monster deficit means that taxes will have to go up and government spending will have to go down. Since the vast majority of govt. spending goes to social security, the military, and medicare/medicaid, this will be painful process all around. Sorry to burst your bubble but everything costs money. That's just the long and short of it. The "I'll gladly pay you for two hamburgers tommorrow in exchange for one today" era is over...until the next deregulation related bubble anyway.

    I've ranted about this before but it just bothers me more than a little bit that many of us are all about being patriotic when it comes to waving a flag, sending someone off to kill or die, or touting a steadfast belief in the constitution, etc. But when it comes to actually paying for freedom out of pocket, not to mention many of the other things we take for granted like roads, schools, healthcare, etc. all of a sudden nobody wants to ante up and kick in. "Land of the free, home of the brave...just make sure I don't have to actually pay anything for it." Yeah, now that's what I call patriotism.

    I hate taxes as much as the next guy. However, I'm also enough of a realist to understand that freedom isn't the only thing that isn't free.
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  6. #6
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    Army Marshall

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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    honorary...best wishes for your mom.
    Thanks very much!
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    Great post, Yusuf.

    There are some people who simply don't want to pay any taxes, and will complain until those rates are at 0%. Also, most people don't realize tax-rates are lower than they've ever been.
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    I am by no means rich. What Mrs Sarge and I make put us up in what is considered "Upper middle class".

    The Bush tax cuts alone save us about $2000 a year in taxes. So before someone comes to me saying they are gonna raise taxes, they better be throttling back on the "stimulus" spending that hasn't done squat. They better start spending money more wisely than suing Arizona for trying to do something the Feds won't.

    There's an ass load of programs in the Federal Government that need to disappear before they come for more money from me
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    I hear you Sarge. However, my point was that all the talk of earmarks, stimulus spending and the like are little more than red herrings designed to divert attention away from the difficult reality that the only way to affect the deficit is to cut entitlement and military spending. Even if all the relatively "minor" spending areas were completely eliminated from the budget, we'd still have a huge deficit and they all know it, hence the red herrings.

    Until someone opens the discussion about cutting spending where the real savings are, i.e. social security, medicare and military spending, we'll continue to have the same problem with deficits. The problem is, no politician will touch the third rail of social security, the Dems don't want to touch medicare, other than the recent healthcare reform bill which did little to limit spending (you can thank "death panel" GOP'ers and Tea Party types for gutting that part of the bill BTW) and nobody wants to cut military spending.

    So, what's left then...other than tax hikes? Personally, I think it's going to ultimately take both the aforementioned tax hikes along with cuts to entitlements, the latter of which Obama will essentially have gift wrapped for him if the GOP makes some modest gains this fall...which I do expect to happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yusuf06 View Post
    I hear you Sarge. However, my point was that all the talk of earmarks, stimulus spending and the like are little more than red herrings designed to divert attention away from the difficult reality that the only way to affect the deficit is to cut entitlement and military spending. Even if all the relatively "minor" spending areas were completely eliminated from the budget, we'd still have a huge deficit and they all know it, hence the red herrings.

    Until someone opens the discussion about cutting spending where the real savings are, i.e. social security, medicare and military spending, we'll continue to have the same problem with deficits. The problem is, no politician will touch the third rail of social security, the Dems don't want to touch medicare, other than the recent healthcare reform bill which did little to limit spending (you can thank "death panel" GOP'ers and Tea Party types for gutting that part of the bill BTW) and nobody wants to cut military spending.

    So, what's left then...other than tax hikes? Personally, I think it's going to ultimately take both the aforementioned tax hikes along with cuts to entitlements, the latter of which Obama will essentially have gift wrapped for him if the GOP makes some modest gains this fall...which I do expect to happen.

    Boehner (sp) touched on SS the other day, and got bashed for it. To me, there is no reason not to raise the retirement age over a period of time. When SS first came along, I think the average age of death was 59 for a man, six years short of the 65 retirement age. I'm stuffing dough away myself, because I know SS won't be there in 20 years

    And I don't even want to talk about Obamacare. It hasn't even been implemented yet and it's going to both cost more than originally estimated (surprise! Not!) and bust the deficit according to the CBO.

    Like I said, I want all the stupid stuff stopped first. Then talk to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yusuf06 View Post
    Tax hikes! Tax hikes! Oh noes!! Rabble rabble rabble. How many of you actually make in excess of $376K? Most of us (me included) will actually see a decrease or no change in our personal taxes. Here's what the truth of this "historic" tax hike actually looks like.


    But hey, I'm willing to hear you guys' side of this. If any of you would like to donate enough $$$ to my personal income in order to get my wife and me up to the point where we'd hit the max tax rate, I'll be more than happy to beyotch and moan about all those extra taxes along with you. Anyone?

    More importantly though, has anyone given enough real thought to this issue to ask a relatively simple question? Namely, should we have been cutting taxes in the first place while trying to fight two wars concurrently? That's sort of like cutting your hours at work after buying a home and a new car. It just doesn't make sense....unless you've bought into the Reagan nonsense that cutting taxes increases tax revenue. However our current monster deficit means that taxes will have to go up and government spending will have to go down. Since the vast majority of govt. spending goes to social security, the military, and medicare/medicaid, this will be painful process all around. Sorry to burst your bubble but everything costs money. That's just the long and short of it. The "I'll gladly pay you for two hamburgers tommorrow in exchange for one today" era is over...until the next deregulation related bubble anyway.

    I've ranted about this before but it just bothers me more than a little bit that many of us are all about being patriotic when it comes to waving a flag, sending someone off to kill or die, or touting a steadfast belief in the constitution, etc. But when it comes to actually paying for freedom out of pocket, not to mention many of the other things we take for granted like roads, schools, healthcare, etc. all of a sudden nobody wants to ante up and kick in. "Land of the free, home of the brave...just make sure I don't have to actually pay anything for it." Yeah, now that's what I call patriotism.

    I hate taxes as much as the next guy. However, I'm also enough of a realist to understand that freedom isn't the only thing that isn't free.
    1) Your argument cuts both ways: should we be raising taxes while headed into the worst recession in modern memory?

    2) Your figures are disingenuous: the CUMULATIVE % of tax increases far exceeds the marginal changes in Federal income tables once one factors in all the other little goodies Mr Obama has planned for us (sales taxes, health care taxes, estate taxes, services taxes, and on and on). Then there are the indirect taxes traceable to inflation. There are credible arguments that the CPI is not representative of actual movements in the real value of the dollar. I'm not clear myself whether we're in a deflationary or inflationary period...but I do know many of the categories that mean the most to me (food, energy) have been marching up since Mr Obama took office.

    3) you are right about social security, medicare and (the one you forgot) medicaid entitlement spending. one could also throw in all the delectables unionized government pensions are bringin to the States! defense spending needs to be rationalized - but folks have been trying to do that for decades.

    4) As for your personal income...can't help you there. do something others find valuable. otherwise...F everyone who expects me and my family to sacrifice for their notions of "fairness"...especially when they created the problem. this is the game Mr Obama is playng now and it is going to backfire....big time. "Meet the New Jimmy Carter. Same as the Ole Jimmy Carter."

    Raise my taxes and I will cut back on C by a larger $$$ amount. If that is what it takes to move these quasi-fascists out of power...then let's have this fight. the dems were willing to undercut soldiers in the field leading up to the last election in the service of their power ambitions. this appears to be how business gets done in the US these daze. fine.

    Either way....you are going to see what negative multipliers and indirect wealth effects mean with a vengeance starting next year. The folks in charge don't know what they are doing.
    Last edited by fansince62; 07-06-10 at 03:29 PM.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    1) Your argument cuts both ways: should we be raising taxes while headed into the worst recession in modern memory?

    2) Your figures are disingenuous: the CUMULATIVE % of tax increases far exceeds the marginal changes in Federal income tables once one factors in all the other little goodies Mr Obama has planned for us (sales taxes, health care taxes, services taxes, and on and on). Then there are the indirect taxes traceable to inflation.

    3) you are right about social security, medicare and (the one you forgot) medicaid entitlement spending. one could also throw in all the delectables unionized government pensions are bringin to the States!

    4) As for your personal income...can't help you there. do something others find valuable. otherwise...F everyone who expects me and my family to sacrifice for their notions of "fairness"
    1) Keynesian economics says you're right about this. However everyone seems to be all worried about deficits all of a sudden when strangely enough, deficits didn't matter for years during W's administration. Things that make you go hmmmm.

    2) Please feel free to be specific about these "goodies", and by specific, I'm asking for links to specific items. Of course you realize those slave camps, black helicopters, and the U.N. takeover won't be cheap, so that's got to get paid for somehow. As for counting inflation as an "indirect" tax, well, speaking of being disingenuous...

    3) I realize unions have played at least some part in state budget woes. However, most of the problems with state budgets have to do with the economic downturn. Note that pretty much all states are affected, right to work red states as well as liberal blue states.

    Sorry to disappoint you but there's no fascist plots there, no shadowy conspiracy to take your liberty away, just a severe economic downturn coupled with a lack of foresight, i.e. cutting taxes to curry favor with voters leading to underfunding of reserves and avoidance of making hard decisions. Period.

    Moreover, once the much hated stimulus funds run out, you're going to see just how much of an effect the stimulus did have that you're perhaps currently unaware of. One good example is that my (very) red state "good ole boys" profess major hatred of the stimulus plan, and yet seemed to not hate it enough to avoid using $1.4 billion of it to avert major cuts and layoffs last year. I for one can't wait to see how these yahoos manage to "fix" the next state budget without stimulus funds, major cuts in services, or going back on their "no new tax" pledges.

    4) Since you're going on about how much you're going to be asked to "sacrifice", just out of curiosity, how much will your personal taxes increase under Obama's plan as outlined above? I don't care to know how much your family makes, but for someone who's whining so hard, I'd expect you to be in the top bracket. Could it be possible that your "sacrifice" will be zero (or perhaps even a decrease in your taxes) and your'e just whining to make a political point? Nahhh, that couldn't be it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yusuf06 View Post
    1) Keynesian economics says you're right about this. However everyone seems to be all worried about deficits all of a sudden when strangely enough, deficits didn't matter for years during W's administration. Things that make you go hmmmm.

    2) Please feel free to be specific about these "goodies", and by specific, I'm asking for links to specific items. Of course you realize those slave camps, black helicopters, and the U.N. takeover won't be cheap, so that's got to get paid for somehow. As for counting inflation as an "indirect" tax, well, speaking of being disingenuous...

    3) I realize unions have played at least some part in state budget woes. However, most of the problems with state budgets have to do with the economic downturn. Note that pretty much all states are affected, right to work red states as well as liberal blue states.

    Sorry to disappoint you but there's no fascist plots there, no shadowy conspiracy to take your liberty away, just a severe economic downturn coupled with a lack of foresight, i.e. cutting taxes to curry favor with voters leading to underfunding of reserves and avoidance of making hard decisions. Period.

    Moreover, once the much hated stimulus funds run out, you're going to see just how much of an effect the stimulus did have that you're perhaps currently unaware of. One good example is that my (very) red state "good ole boys" profess major hatred of the stimulus plan, and yet seemed to not hate it enough to avoid using $1.4 billion of it to avert major cuts and layoffs last year. I for one can't wait to see how these yahoos manage to "fix" the next state budget without stimulus funds, major cuts in services, or going back on their "no new tax" pledges.

    4) Since you're going on about how much you're going to be asked to "sacrifice", just out of curiosity, how much will your personal taxes increase under Obama's plan as outlined above? I don't care to know how much your family makes, but for someone who's whining so hard, I'd expect you to be in the top bracket. Could it be possible that your "sacrifice" will be zero (or perhaps even a decrease in your taxes) and your'e just whining to make a political point? Nahhh, that couldn't be it.
    What W, 6 yrs of Repub rule followed by 2 yrs of Dem rule did has nothing to do with how I feel about the Obama regime. Many were talking about the deficit and out of control spending during that period. many were upset with the feckless Mr Bush. Those same folks were probably even more upset by the abetting of the enemy Pelosi, Reid, Obama and other water carriers for the Left performed while angling to regain power. They might even have found these leaders' willingness to trade lives on the field for their personal power gains shocking. but that has nothing to do with Mr Obama's incompetent handling of the economy either....a national debt increasing at $3 million a minute does grab one's attention, however.

    Yes I get it ...you're like some posters over at that other board...feigning objectivity while pressing with a barely disguised agenda of your own. tit for tat I suppose - got me there. great...you feel wealth and income are distributed unfairly and that Mr Obama is rectifiing sins of the past.

    btw...I'm not whining. my tax bracket is irrelevant. HE CREATED THE CONDITIONS THAT NOW REQUIRE A SPECIAL DEFICIT COMMISSION THAT IS GOING TO RECOMMEND TAX INCREASES - and in less than two years! every one in the world understands this - even spendthrift Europeans, everyone except the glib MR Obama apparently. like a lot of people I am exceptionally angry and I will ACTIVELY work to undermine Mr Obama's incompetent efforts to rectify the downturn he may have inherited but then proceeded to worsen by orders of magnitude while regaling us with one embarrassingly corrupt legislative effort after the next (see Obamacare for a reference case).

    but on to other issues....do your own research...you're "fact" based...and you will find

    - reputable studies that public pension plans are driving the California budget into the dirt

    - that the CPI index is not an accurate metric for general price movements

    - that the fine print is changing line items like joint filing caps and dependent deductions

    - all the new taxes arriving this January in the wonderful health care plan he blessed us with that...after the fact...is proving to have been woefully underestimated on a cost basis by a CBO pressured to service political ends rather than perform its job with integrity

    Note: I didn't think it possible, but Mr Obama has accelerated the already escalating distrust in government institutions Mr Bush bequeathed beyond all imagination. were it not for the millions newly unemployed...it would rise to the level of low comedy!!!

    - and while you're at it....ask why he has done nothing to rectify the government malfeasance that led to much of the subprime debacle in the first place. in fact, investigate why the same conditions have perpetuated at Freddy/Fanny during his watch.

    - stay on theme Y...states like CA and NY were in bad fiscal shape before 2008. Your answer also dissembles the fact that the States in the WORST shape are precisely those with the greatest slate of unfunded mandates and heavy union benefits in the public sector.

    you are conflating issues......good ole boys dippin their toes into the stimulous waters may suggest hypocrisy...but it is irrelevant to whether that slush fund was EFFECTIVELY used. that you avoid discussing actual unemployment data is understandable...I would also were I skipping down a similar fantasy lane. and Mr Obama has yet to spend even half of the stimulous funds he was able to pressure out of Congress...yet he wants more? Good theory there! Throw more good money after (by all apearances) bad money. is this your theory for wise investing of the public weal?

    btw....following up on your "can't wait to see how they fix it..." line of thinking. who cares? you assume taxpayers like me have a responsibility to redress the largess of a political class that doesn't produce anything....that we are obligated to liquidate the debts of legislative decisions we had no role in voting on. I should labor X per cent of the year to cover pension plans for California teachers and politicians in Sacremento? well..ummmm...SCREW THAT! why should tax payers bail out corrupt legislatures in NY, CA, MI, etc., etc., who keep passing unfunded mandates? much less the GMs of the world? bailouts only perpetuate the problem. they don't fix root causes.

    perhaps a little social chaos is in order. this has gone on long enough. the Tea Party movement you so despise is merely a symbol of incipient unrest you have failed to recognize the significance of. it's beginning to sink in that the political elites don't know what they are doing and...protests to the contrary...don't really even care. they have a "higher calling". they're "transforming" America. they're going to regulate, legislate and adjudicate social "justice" if it's the last thing they do!

    they know better! just look at the results!!!!
    Last edited by fansince62; 07-06-10 at 09:00 PM.
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  14. #14
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    I see more and more of these articles.

    Maybe people are starting to wake up

    http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnal...e-Horizon.aspx

    Many voters are looking forward to 2011, hoping a new Congress will put the country back on the right track. But unless something's done soon, the new year will also come with a raft of tax hikes — including a return of the death tax — that will be real killers.

    Through the end of this year, the federal estate tax rate is zero — thanks to the package of broad-based tax cuts that President Bush pushed through to get the economy going earlier in the decade.

    But as of midnight Dec. 31, the death tax returns — at a rate of 55% on estates of $1 million or more. The effect this will have on hospital life-support systems is already a matter of conjecture.

    Resurrection of the death tax, however, isn't the only tax problem that will be ushered in Jan. 1. Many other cuts from the Bush administration are set to disappear and a new set of taxes will materialize. And it's not just the rich who will pay.

    The lowest bracket for the personal income tax, for instance, moves up 50% — to 15% from 10%. The next lowest bracket — 25% — will rise to 28%, and the old 28% bracket will be 31%. At the higher end, the 33% bracket is pushed to 36% and the 35% bracket becomes 39.6%.

    But the damage doesn't stop there.

    The marriage penalty also makes a comeback, and the capital gains tax will jump 33% — to 20% from 15%. The tax on dividends will go all the way from 15% to 39.6% — a 164% increase.

    Both the cap-gains and dividend taxes will go up further in 2013 as the health care reform adds a 3.8% Medicare levy for individuals making more than $200,000 a year and joint filers making more than $250,000. Other tax hikes include: halving the child tax credit to $500 from $1,000 and fixing the standard deduction for couples at the same level as it is for single filers.

    Letting the Bush cuts expire will cost taxpayers $115 billion next year alone, according to the Congressional Budget Office, and $2.6 trillion through 2020.

    But even more tax headaches lie ahead. This "second wave" of hikes, as Americans for Tax Reform puts it, are designed to pay for ObamaCare and include:

    The Medicine Cabinet Tax. Americans, says ATR, "will no longer be able to use health savings account, flexible spending account, or health reimbursement pretax dollars to purchase nonprescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin)."
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    pipe down Sarge...you're part of the oppressor class and have no right to carp!
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    Florida Atlantic

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    In fairness, I found this on the same site Yusuf found his graphic on:

    Which income tax provisions will change?

    * The 10 percent tax bracket will disappear and the 25 percent, 28, percent, 33 percent, and 35 percent rates will revert to 28 percent, 31 percent, 36 percent, and 39.6 percent respectively.
    * The phaseout of personal exemptions and limit on itemized deductions will return for high-income taxpayers.
    * The standard deduction and the width of the 15 percent tax bracket for married couples filing jointly will both shrink from twice that for single filers to 1.67 times as large.
    * Dividends will be taxed at regular tax rates rather than at the lower long-term capital gains rates.
    * Long-term capital gains tax rates will increase from 0 percent to 10 percent for taxpayers in the 15 percent bracket and below and from 15 percent to 20 percent for filers in higher tax brackets.
    * The child credit will be halved to $500 and become largely non-refundable.
    * The child and dependent care credit and the earned income credit will be pared back.

    How will the income tax changes affect revenues?

    * Compared with 2010 law, income tax revenues will increase $240 billion in 2011 and by $3.4 trillion over the 2011-2020 decade.
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    Gee Wally, I thought you said Obama wouldn't raise our taxes


    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...jT3cwD9I979JG0

    WASHINGTON — Here's some pressure for lawmakers: If they don't reach agreement on extending soon-to-expire Bush-era tax cuts, nearly all their constituents back home will get big tax increases.

    A typical family of four with a household income of $50,000 a year would have to pay $2,900 more in taxes in 2011, according to a new analysis by Deloitte Tax LLP, a tax consulting firm. The same family making $100,000 a year would see its taxes rise by $4,500.

    Wealthier families face even bigger tax hikes. A family of four making $500,000 a year would pay $10,800 more in taxes. The same family making $1 million a year would get a tax increase of $52,300.

    The estimates are based on total household income, including wages, capital gains and qualified dividends. The estimated tax bills take into account typical deductions at each income level.

    Democrats have been arguing for much of the past decade that tax cuts enacted in 2001 and 2003 under former President George W. Bush provided a windfall for the wealthy. That's true, but they also reduced taxes for the working poor, the middle class, and just about everyone in between.

    Those tax cuts expire at the end of the year, setting the stage for a high-stakes debate just before congressional elections in November. If Congress fails to act, families at every income level will see more taxes being withheld from their paychecks come January.

    The tax cuts enacted in 2001 and 2003 reduced marginal income tax rates at every level. They also provided a wide range of income tax breaks for education, families with children and married couples.
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    Formerly known as ...............Sarge

 

 

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