Lanky Livingston
Guest
Let me preface by saying I'm not trying to start a fight. I apologize for the research comment, I got a little snarky.
You said George never started. "Might have wanted George to start but he never did." He in fact started 5 games in 2000. And when Snyder signs him for 4 years and $18M (which was a huge contract back then), he's not signing him to ride the pine, he's signing him to compete for the starting job. On a team with a QB who just threw for 4000 yards. It was made clear from day one that it was an open competition, and that Snyder wanted George to be the starter.
Also, he did not come in for an injured Brad Johnson, he was named the starter (under pressure from Snyder) in week 10. He played 3 weeks, and then Brad Johnson got the starting job back, and THEN George came in for him. I can't remember if it was due to injury or not. He then started weeks 15 and 16. BJ started week 17.
See for yourself.
Depends on your point of view I guess. I remember him not being a "pain in the ass" until it was known he wasn't returning. That's when he started badmouthing the team and what not. Before that, I don't recall any problems. "Expendable" is also a POV thing I suppose.
Well, its not a stretch, its wrong. Maybe points per game is what you mean? We were on pace to break it? We never broke the scoring record that season - we scored 443 points, 100 less than the 541 scored 16 years earlier by the 83 Skins, and over 100 less than the 556 scored by the 98 Vikings. So, not sure where you're getting that info. The Rams didn't break the Vikings' record from a year earlier either.
You say in one hand the 99 offense was so prolific, and Snyder didn't do anything to mess with it, then out of the other side of your mouth you say his biggest mistake was NOT firing Norv immediately. You can't have it both ways, dude.
See, I'm confused again - you're saying two different things. Schotty should have been fired, but if he'd taught Snyder, he'd have stayed for several years and we wouldn't be where we are today? You gotta pick a side and stick with it.
Oh I agree, I hated Norv. I'm certainly not defending him.
Nope you are wrong. George came in when Johnson was injured in week 9, and then replaced Johnson when he came back and stank although JG was 1-2 in BJ's absence so he wasn't setting the world on fire. He wasn't brought in to start. Robo started him 2 games after Norv was canned but again it was a shakeup going to the backup ala Babe Lauffenberg, not JG starting for even a majority of the season and doing it because he earned the job. Why bring a QB at all, oh I dunno in case your starter goes down for 3 games like he did that year? Nahhhhhh, that's CRAZY.
You said George never started. "Might have wanted George to start but he never did." He in fact started 5 games in 2000. And when Snyder signs him for 4 years and $18M (which was a huge contract back then), he's not signing him to ride the pine, he's signing him to compete for the starting job. On a team with a QB who just threw for 4000 yards. It was made clear from day one that it was an open competition, and that Snyder wanted George to be the starter.
Also, he did not come in for an injured Brad Johnson, he was named the starter (under pressure from Snyder) in week 10. He played 3 weeks, and then Brad Johnson got the starting job back, and THEN George came in for him. I can't remember if it was due to injury or not. He then started weeks 15 and 16. BJ started week 17.
See for yourself.
OK I get it, ditching a 4th string running back, 4th string emergency QB, 1st string kick returner was what was keeping that team firing on all cylinders. If cutting him was what "ruined" that team then it wasn't nearly as good as you or anyone else bills it. Yea Mitchell was a leader, he was also a locker room "bitcher" who had the same effect at times that Lavar did and since his production had been steadily declining he became expendable. NY and Philly picked him up and he had one or 2 solid seasons (funny they both cut him too, they were backstabbers too right? The cut was justified in the sense that he was a shadow of his former self but still ran that all world mouth like he was on top of his game. Then he proved the point by running his mouth non stop after leaving (loyalty...yea right)...as if the whiner hadn't been payed millions to do what he did. Get over it, you got cut move on and grow up. He never could, which lends credence to the reports that he was a pain in the ass behind closed doors more than once.
Depends on your point of view I guess. I remember him not being a "pain in the ass" until it was known he wasn't returning. That's when he started badmouthing the team and what not. Before that, I don't recall any problems. "Expendable" is also a POV thing I suppose.
Yep that's a stat I will never forget as it was obscured within the same season by the Rams. We broke it, they broke it further. Why is that such a stretch of the imagination when BJ had our most productive QB year ever, we had 2 WR's over 1000 yards and Stephen Davis had the best single season of any Redskin in history at that point? The reason it didn't get more billing is Norv coached another classic choke job and that team lost many games by actually being outscored with a 30th ranked D to go with the #2 O. I think the D allowed something crazy like 25 points a game that season.
Well, its not a stretch, its wrong. Maybe points per game is what you mean? We were on pace to break it? We never broke the scoring record that season - we scored 443 points, 100 less than the 541 scored 16 years earlier by the 83 Skins, and over 100 less than the 556 scored by the 98 Vikings. So, not sure where you're getting that info. The Rams didn't break the Vikings' record from a year earlier either.
-ASIDE: Are you TRYING to pick a fight here, because I'm doing my darndest to skip over your smart assed tone and stick to a legit debate. First I need to go research my team because I am evidently clueless, then I'm too dumb to know very basic knowledge of a season I obviously remember better than you do when I'm the one who called out Norv to begin with? Gotcha.
You say in one hand the 99 offense was so prolific, and Snyder didn't do anything to mess with it, then out of the other side of your mouth you say his biggest mistake was NOT firing Norv immediately. You can't have it both ways, dude.
No I didn't realize it at all, that's why I called him out because I had no clue what his tenure consisted of. I didn't leave off anything, those didn't happen after the 99 season which it was said is when Snyder ruined this team. Oh and I'd have canned Schottenheimer too the second he said " I see no reason to upgrade at the QB position. Tony Banks had a fine year and will be our starting QB next season" along with refusing to fire or move Jimmy "High School Offense" Ray as the OC. Bar none the most embarrassing offensive year In Skins history when opposing teams were literally calling out or next play at the line of scrimmage. To say defenses laughed at us would be an understatement. Throw in the treatment of Darrel green (talk about alienating your team, the Bitchell cut pales in comparison to alienating the team's leader who EVERYONE looked up to before the season even starts. I could go on but that would require facing some unpleasant facts. Snyder has made a clusterfudge of things no doubt but he had a hell of a lot of help. If Schotty does one thing and opens his door and starts teaching Snyder like Gibbs does then I'm convinced we're not sitting here debating this and Schotty would have coached this team for several years, hell he might still be our coach.
See, I'm confused again - you're saying two different things. Schotty should have been fired, but if he'd taught Snyder, he'd have stayed for several years and we wouldn't be where we are today? You gotta pick a side and stick with it.
Highly talented teams that were the softest in the league and couldn't win a close game to save their lives. Losing over 2/3 of our division games, being known leaguewide as Club Med to the point that guys like Bruce and Deion were calling around the league telling other slackers to come join the fun! That's a Norv Turner team alright!
I couldn't care less about the first 25 scripted plays of a game when the opposing D shows stoutness and the guy abandons the run at the first sign of true adversity. I also couldn't care less about his genius when the proof is in the record which pretty much sucked donkey balls under Norv. Norv made it embarrassing to be a Skins fan for the first time in my life and I put a mountain of the blame for the crappitude of the franchise on his shoulders.
10-6 don't mean jack anyone who watched that team could see it was vastly under-performing and soft as a babies snuggly. An owner who had even a slight clue about how to run a team would have canned his butt in a NY minute. The writing was clearly on the wall, that team was going nowhere but down....six years of pure embarrassing crap aren't erased by a half a season of success coupled with another half of mediocre choke festivals.
Oh I agree, I hated Norv. I'm certainly not defending him.