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  1. #1

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    Default MSNBC: Judge Rejects Obama Move on Drilling

    Fantastic news...although Obama and co have already said they are going to appeal.
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    Obama ban on deepwater drilling overturned


    Judge sides with industry, which opposed six-month moratorium

    NEW ORLEANS - A U.S. judge Tuesday ruled against the Obama administration's six-month moratorium on deepwater drilling in the wake of the BP oil spill. The White House, which had hoped the ban would provide time to ensure other wells are operating safely, immediately said it planned to appeal.

    The ruling comes in a lawsuit filed by drilling companies to reverse the ban imposed by the Department of Interior, which halted the approval of any new permits for deepwater drilling and suspended drilling at 33 exploratory wells in the Gulf.

    A federal judge in Louisiana granted the drillers' request for a preliminary restraining order that would prevent the ban from taking effect.

    District Judge Martin Feldman said the Interior Department failed to provide adequate reasoning and that the moratorium seems to assume that because one rig failed, all companies and rigs doing deepwater drilling pose an imminent danger.

    During a two-hour hearing Monday, plaintiffs' attorney Carl Rosenblum had argued that the suspension could prove more economically devastating than the spill itself. "This is an unprecedented industrywide shutdown. Never before has the government done this," Rosenblum said.

    Earlier Tuesday, the owner of the rig that exploded, causing the spill, criticized the moratorium.

    "There are things the administration could implement today that would allow the industry to go back to work tomorrow without an arbitrary six-month time limit," Transocean Ltd. President Steven Newman told reporters on the sidelines of the World National Oil Companies Congress in London.

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  2. #2

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    Florida Atlantic

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    From CNN:

    Federal judge blocks drilling moratorium in Gulf

    A federal judge in New Orleans, Louisiana, has blocked a six-month federal moratorium on deepwater drilling in the Gulf.

    Several dozen plaintiffs had sued President Barack Obama's administration, arguing the ban would create long-term economic harm to their businesses. Obama ordered the moratorium after the April 20 explosion of an oil rig off Louisiana that killed 11 people and triggered an underwater oil gusher.

    White House spokesman Robert Gibbs says the government will immediately appeal the ruling to the 5th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals.

    "The president strongly believes, as the Department of Interior and Department of Justice argued yesterday, that continuing to drill at these depths without knowing what happened is - does not make any sense and puts the safety of those involved, potentially puts safety of those on the rigs, and the safety of the environment and the Gulf at a danger that the president does not believe we can afford right now," Gibbs said.


    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/22...orium-in-gulf/
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  3. #3
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    With your vocation being directly linked to this situation, how do you feel about this? Just curious. I am for drilling. I am for regulation on drilling. I simply want the current regulations to be enforced thoroughly, not new ones to be introduced.

    I am not apologizing for big business or in this case BP, just not supporting the Obama decision to stop drilling and expect BP to foot the bill for those out of work. BP should foot the bill for everything related to the cleanup, Governmental costs to the American tax payers, heavy fines, and fisherman/hotels/restaurants who have lost their livelihoods as a result, but I do not think it is fair of the Obama Administration to suggest BP should pay for their decision to put these people out of work by imposing this moratorium.

    The overwhelming majority of these wells are in safe operating condition. Let them drill while you inspect them. However, I would support a moratorium on BP from drilling since they have exhibited little concern for safety, just not the other oil companies who appear to have followed safety precautions.
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    I'm in a similar industry, but I'm not directly linked. I could work in oil and gas, but its really its own animal.

    As such, I think there were several different things that led to this blowout (greed-driven decisions from BP, lack of government regulation of deep drilling, corruption in the government, etc.). What I do not think is that drilling itself should be banned completely. Obama could have sat down with several industry leaders immediately after the incident, gotten a checklist together of safety procedures, then said any deepshore well has to follow this checklist to ensure safe drilling, and that would have fixed the problems. Because let's face it, there are many other deep-wells out there that DID drill safely, and aren't gushing oil into the Gulf.

    I've already stated my opinions on America's dependence on oil - not foreign, not American, just oil in general. Everything around you is made from petroleum. There are no other feasible energy sources at the moment. Are there sources with potential? Yes. Solar energy, Hydrogen fuel cells, etc. But they aren't there yet. We need to focus research and energy on these technolgies rather than shaming BP and banning all drilling.

    It was quite a naive move by this administration to put the moratorium on the industry in the first-place, and showed a complete lack of understanding of not only technology, but our economy. If we stopped producing oil (and the deep wells in the Gulf are pretty much the only places we can drill anymore), prices of everything would skyrocket, because instead of x% of our oil imported, we'd have to import a whole lot more (unsure of the exact number).
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  5. #5
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    This should be interesting.

    I agree with you guys' comments that BP shouldn't be liable for the moratorium related costs and about our need to diversify our sources of energy. However I still disagree with you all regarding the need for the moratorium. Aside from the reasons I cited in the Obama thread, LL's checklist idea is good in theory. However in practice it sounds like more of the self regulation the oil companies have had since Slick Willie and later W. essentially deregulated the industry.

    On the one hand, people in the area are distraught that they're in danger of losing their way of life. On the other hand they're seemingly willing to risk it all in order to avoid a short term and admittedly significant economic hit. To me it seems like playing Russian roulette.

    It's also interesting that they seem not to be asking some difficult questions. As with Michigan and the auto industry, I wonder why the idea of diversifying the LA economy away from a single large source of revenue, ie gulf-related industries like oil and fishing hasn't been tried (or not worked). I also wonder about the wisdom of states using natural resource royalty revenue to artificially keep taxes low. It works great in the short/intermediate term...up until your commodity crashes or falls out of favor.
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    Its not about the moratorium. Its about the fact that we don't currently have an alternative to oil. And if we stop drilling now, we'll have to import more of it, which means higher costs at the pump. And its not like we're preventing disasters - there are oil spills in other countries, but the media doesn't care because its countries like Niger.

    If the moratorium is put back on after appeal, the rigs aren't just going to wait around for 6 months! They have contracts to drill in Brazil. They will pick up and go there, and it will be a minimum of 18 months to 2 years before they can come back.
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    So the question appears to be, is this administration willing to watch other nations like Brazil and China surpass us as they take full advantage of all of their resources in the name of progress while we linger behind as we learn how to take advantage of other energy sources, placing more dependence on foreign oil as we do?
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Its not about the moratorium. Its about the fact that we don't currently have an alternative to oil. And if we stop drilling now, we'll have to import more of it, which means higher costs at the pump. And its not like we're preventing disasters - there are oil spills in other countries, but the media doesn't care because its countries like Niger.

    If the moratorium is put back on after appeal, the rigs aren't just going to wait around for 6 months! They have contracts to drill in Brazil. They will pick up and go there, and it will be a minimum of 18 months to 2 years before they can come back.
    Lanky you do realize they haven't proposed stopping current production, just drilling of new wells, right? As you have more knowledge of it than I do, how long does a typical well "put out" before it starts to taper off and eventually become unprofitable? How many wells does this happen to in a given six month period?

    If that number is relatively small and the difference could be made up with the strategic petroleum reserves, then as a country we should be fine as gas prices shouldn't spike too much during the moratorium. Obviously the primary loser would be the oil companies as they're contractually bound to pay for the drilling rigs whether they get any oil out of them or not as well as the hit to the LA economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    So the question appears to be, is this administration willing to watch other nations like Brazil and China surpass us as they take full advantage of all of their resources in the name of progress while we linger behind as we learn how to take advantage of other energy sources, placing more dependence on foreign oil as we do?
    Quite the contrary. That's why Obama proposed a expansion of drilling and nuke power along with development of alternative energy sources. The only real problem I had with his proposal was that I would have liked more nuke power generation and some slight expansion of onshore/shallow water drilling as well. However there were/are problems with each of those. Nuke plants are horrendously expensive and the politics of expanded onshore/shallow water drilling was probably not going to happen. Even so, I felt it was a fairly sensible policy position.

    In my mind the real question is whether we're going to allow other countries to get ahead of us in transitioning to the fuels of the future. Whether one agrees with global warming or not, oil and coal have other drawbacks that are well established. Furthermore, the day will eventually come when the global supply of oil runs drastically short of global need. Sticking our heads in the sand and pretending that day won't ever come makes little sense IMHO.
    Last edited by Yusuf06; 06-23-10 at 08:04 PM.
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    “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” --Thomas Paine

  9. #9

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    Keep your fingers crossed that the cap continues to work! I heard they've also reopened commercial and recreational fishing in Louisiana, which is also awesome news. Not sure how much is out there, but still good news.

    "Word on the street" here in Houston is that BP is going to sell all its assets and leave the U.S. This is a huge problem for us - and most likely the beginning of Obama Oil. Oy vey.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Keep your fingers crossed that the cap continues to work! I heard they've also reopened commercial and recreational fishing in Louisiana, which is also awesome news. Not sure how much is out there, but still good news.

    "Word on the street" here in Houston is that BP is going to sell all its assets and leave the U.S. This is a huge problem for us - and most likely the beginning of Obama Oil. Oy vey.
    Supposedly they have already threatened Obama with that and have moved a lot of their wells to off the shore of africa.

    Anyone find it odd that the guys that are against drilling here in teh states are hasppy the US gave 2 billion with an option for 10 billion to Brazil for a chinese company to come in and drill in there deep water?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    "Word on the street" here in Houston is that BP is going to sell all its assets and leave the U.S. This is a huge problem for us - and most likely the beginning of Obama Oil. Oy vey.
    Wouldn't you? BP, for all their issues, stated early on that they wold pay for ALL the cleanup.

    And yet Obama and Holder were in the Gulf tryng to figure out who to sue before the well was even capped.

    BP is not stupid. They can see the writing on the wall

    But it's muc better to let the CHICOMs, with their awesome technology, drill off our coast

    Right now, I'm just happy to see the thing capped,as I'm sure a lot of folks on the coast are
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    I'm in a similar industry, but I'm not directly linked. I could work in oil and gas, but its really its own animal.

    As such, I think there were several different things that led to this blowout (greed-driven decisions from BP, lack of government regulation of deep drilling, corruption in the government, etc.). What I do not think is that drilling itself should be banned completely. Obama could have sat down with several industry leaders immediately after the incident, gotten a checklist together of safety procedures, then said any deepshore well has to follow this checklist to ensure safe drilling, and that would have fixed the problems. Because let's face it, there are many other deep-wells out there that DID drill safely, and aren't gushing oil into the Gulf.

    I've already stated my opinions on America's dependence on oil - not foreign, not American, just oil in general. Everything around you is made from petroleum. There are no other feasible energy sources at the moment. Are there sources with potential? Yes. Solar energy, Hydrogen fuel cells, etc. But they aren't there yet. We need to focus research and energy on these technolgies rather than shaming BP and banning all drilling.

    It was quite a naive move by this administration to put the moratorium on the industry in the first-place, and showed a complete lack of understanding of not only technology, but our economy. If we stopped producing oil (and the deep wells in the Gulf are pretty much the only places we can drill anymore), prices of everything would skyrocket, because instead of x% of our oil imported, we'd have to import a whole lot more (unsure of the exact number).
    how about the notion that there is no perfectable condition? that there is risk in everything? that the buffoons in government - as we have seen over and over and over - actually exacerbate matters with excessive, non-democratic regulation.

    you and I don't get to vote on any of this. why do you think ever since FDR government has grown out of all proportion with dozens upon dozens of agencies mandating their "scientific based" findings subject to "public review". no one ever seems to question why...Liberal rhetoric notwithstanding...we have had an inexorable march to greater and greater regulation with very unsatisfactory results. (you do get it that when Liberal psuedo intellectuals opine about deregulation and Laissez-faire market capitalism being the core cause of all these recurring crises since Reagan assumed power that you are being gamed? that that is a strawman argument? that we are more regulated now than ever before?). it's all designed to avoid democracy. you and I don't count. that cost never figures into the equation. it doesn't matter whether it's Republicans or Democrats - these people are an entrenched class who buy loyalty from Unions AND Business through favored tax and regulatory adjudications/regulations. There's a permanent political class that doesn't care about you or me. they hold positions in government or become lobbyists/industries/"non-profits" all feeding off the same trough - all with the same interest in growing government and negotiating backroom deals with the current power brokers to ensure their survival, their comfortable lifestyles. it's a disgustng revolving door. Obama talkde about it...but obviously has done nothing about it - he can't...it's an integral component of the power structure. it ensures the flow of money needed to oil the machine.

    The figurehead Obama captured things very succinctly when he let slip his ad hominen on "clinging to guns and Bibles". They have contempt for you and me. for the ordinary citizen. they were educated at better schools and..more importantly...they have a superior cultural, moral and intellectual view on things. THE WHOLE F'ING SYSTEM HAS BEEN ENGINEERED OVER THE LAST 10O YEARS OR SO TO CUT YOU AND ME OUT OF THE PATTERN. look at the scam that is global warming - the manipulation of data, the orchestrated subversion of the scientific process itself, the reaction of the political classes and their dependents with sham exculpatory "peer" reviews? but who champions this false process the most? government! qausi "world" government organizations like the UN!

    We aren't marching toward greater liberties and equality....just the opposite. The irony is that these superior beings are manifestly incompetent: all the data point to a society in decline.

    it's only mildly interesting, oh btw, that the political classes and their abettors/dependents all take care of themselves and their children first...before turning to you and me and demanding that we sacrifice greater per centages of our livelihoods to their notions of equality and moral responsibility. just drive around the neighborhoods in Northern Va and Montgomery County where these people live if you have any doubts. see what cars are parked in the driveways while they push you and me to purchase these overprices hybrids. take note of what schools they send their kids to while undercutting vouchers and any other program that admits of free choice.

    greed...blah, blah, blah. everyone seems to miss the point that this blowout is putting BP out of business. everything in life entails risk. this notion of failed regulation is a sham. we operate over time to reduce risk and balance that goal against the costs. we can't mandate no risk...just like we can't mandate equality when people are manifestly endowed with different talents and abilties. I fear the greedy person/corporation much, much less than I do the "scientific", unelected, morally superior government hack making decisions about right and wrong, determining financial winners and losers. I can trace where greed leads...I have zero control over a government that is now largely detached and unresponsive to the common man. Did anyone pay attention to what just unfolded over the last year and a half? We have a Congress and a President passing huge volumes of legislation they don't even know the content of. Anyone even take a cursory look at those bills? they are largely built to determine winners and losers - and sustain/grow the political class and its control over ALL aspects of our lives.

    just look at what Obama is doing...these people don't give a *amn about rule by consent of the governed....they will unilaterally interpret the law as they deem fit ("positive rights" as opposed to the Constitution's core purpose of negative rights - limiting government powers vis the citizen), they refuse to enforce the law when they see the utility, mandate executive orders when Congress does not abide by their legislative ends.....you have no say any longer and don't even know it.
    Last edited by fansince62; 07-16-10 at 08:10 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redskins26 View Post
    Supposedly they have already threatened Obama with that and have moved a lot of their wells to off the shore of africa.

    Anyone find it odd that the guys that are against drilling here in teh states are hasppy the US gave 2 billion with an option for 10 billion to Brazil for a chinese company to come in and drill in there deep water?
    does the phrase "China owns our debt mean anything to you?"...:-).....
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  14. #14

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    These are the kind of things that are going to make BP leave America altogether. Incredible! It costs more money for companies to drill here than it does anywhere else, by a LONG shot.

    Feds seek royalties on output from leaking well

    Michael R. Bromwich, director of the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, Regulation and Enforcement (BOEM) has informed BP that it must report all oil and gas-related activities at the damaged Macondo well and pay royalties on all oil and gas captured from the leaking well. The company also will be liable for royalties on lost or wasted oil and gas if it is determined that negligence or regulatory violations caused or contributed to the Deepwater Horizon explosion and subsequent leak.

    In a July 15 letter to Guy Otwell, of BP America Inc.'s Tax Department, Mr. Bromwich said that the company's failure to fulfill these obligations could be considered a knowing and willful violation of the Federal Oil and Gas Royalty Management Act. The letter also noted that the Interior Department reserves "any and all rights and remedies available to the United States arising from the Deepwater Horizon oil spill."

    "BP is required to report immediately to BOEM all oil and gas-related activities associated with the Macondo well using Form MMS-4054", Bromwich stated in his letter. Furthermore, under the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act and the lease between the United States and BP, the company is required to pay royalties immediately for all oil and gas captured from the Macondo well.

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