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Vick a Redskin?

Huly said:
Well since the Vick issue is still a rumor, I want to throw this out there. How would you handle it if the Redskins signed any player that you can not support? How do you support a team but NOT an individual player? Is that even possible?
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You know one of our beloved players from the past wasn't exactly a person you would invite into your home if you knew much about him, drug addict, illiterate etc. I'm talking about Dexter Manley. He has cleaned up his life now from what I understand but his past life wasn't someone you would want to emulate and set before your children as an example. He still is well thought of from his actions on the field. How about him? How do you or did you feel about him once all the information came out?
 
dexter's situation is different. he didn't hurt anyone or anything (animals), he destroyed himself.
 
HapHaszard said:
You know one of our beloved players from the past wasn't exactly a person you would invite into your home if you knew much about him, drug addict, illiterate etc. I'm talking about Dexter Manley. He has cleaned up his life now from what I understand but his past life wasn't someone you would want to emulate and set before your children as an example. He still is well thought of from his actions on the field. How about him? How do you or did you feel about him once all the information came out?
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I have never thought about that as I was not a Redskin fan when he played for the Redskins.

I am glad he changed his life around but I do not think I would like my child or myself supporting him when he was involved in this.

I am all for second chances and forgiveness if you realize what you did was wrong and you use that experience to help others. In my heart though I do not feel that Vick is there yet (just using him as an example).
 
beamish said:
dexter's situation is different. he didn't hurt anyone or anything (animals), he destroyed himself.
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Very true Beamish, and that is why I think he is still thought of as a true Redskin. The harm he caused was mostly to himself and not others.
 
beamish said:
dexter's situation is different. he didn't hurt anyone or anything (animals), he destroyed himself.
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Exactly.

That said, I wanted him cut when his problems first began. It doesn't mean I ever rooted against him. And I'd never root against my team because of a player I didn't like. But if internet message boards were around then, I would have voted, "Cut Him", in the, "Dexter, Cut Him Or Keep Him?" thread.

The only player whose presence on this team made me ill, was Peion. I never wished him failure. I never wished him success. I wished him to ultimately go away, ASAP.
 
I was really upset with the Deion signing, but when he returned that punt in overtime against Tampa Bay I was up out of my seat cheering in FedEx like he was a lifelong Redskin.

I don't know if it would be same with Vick. I think he should be allowed back in, but I don't want him on my team. My wife does a lot of work with Greyhound Rescue and it makes me sick to think about what he did.

I'd like to think I could abandon the team until he's gone, but I know myself better than that. I'd probably get over it if we were to win with him, rationalizing that Vick is a changed man, paid his debt to society, learned his lesson, blah blah blah.

My hypocrisy knows no bounds when justifying what my team does. If Vick were to be signed by Dallas tomorrow, you better believe the Cowboys fans I know would hear about it. A lot.
 
One thing I wonder about, is the amount of money players make these days, and the effect it has on them. Usually a young guy, probably not used to wealth, suddenly becoming very rich and able to do what he wants and afford it. Do you think this has anything to do with the antics that we are seeing more and more with players getting drunk, driving wild etc.

Look at Hainesworth, he was caught speeding in excess in Tennessee, and went out again and did the same thing, only this time caused an accident that resulted in someone getting injured seriously. Do you think he should be a Redskin, are you bothered that he is? Over in ES I don't think I heard anyone say much about it.
 
HapHaszard said:
One thing I wonder about, is the amount of money players make these days, and the effect it has on them. Usually a young guy, probably not used to wealth, suddenly becoming very rich and able to do what he wants and afford it. Do you think this has anything to do with the antics that we are seeing more and more with players getting drunk, driving wild etc.

Look at Hainesworth, he was caught speeding in excess in Tennessee, and went out again and did the same thing, only this time caused an accident that resulted in someone getting injured seriously. Do you think he should be a Redskin, are you bothered that he is? Over in ES I don't think I heard anyone say much about it.
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First off, I know plenty of people, dirt poor, who were just as capable as a wealthy athlete of doing something stupid. And have seen them be afforded just as many slaps on the wrist, not learned a damn thing, and went out and did it again. So, bottom line, anybody, is capable of, anything. Having deeper pockets only gets you a more expensive lawyer.

Intent, is what separates Vick from, say, Haynesworth. I don't imagine Albert thought, "Let me see if I can cause somebody to wreck their car, and hopefully hurt them really bad.

Vick, on the other hand, had to decide, do I want to strangle this ****ing dog to death, or electrocute the goddamn thing.
 
Ax said:
Intent, is what separates Vick from, say, Haynesworth. I don't imagine Albert thought, "Let me see if I can cause somebody to wreck their car, and hopefully hurt them really bad.

Vick, on the other hand, had to decide, do I want to strangle this ****ing dog to death, or electrocute the goddamn thing.
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People are responsible for their actions, good bad or otherwise, as for intent, Hainesworth as a result of his actions caused harm. Had he taken heed of his first incident he wouldn't have been speeding at 100+ mph on the interstate. He had to decide to get in the car and drive that fast. Stupid yes, but he did make a decision which anyone with any common sense should realize could cause an accident. I don't see much difference between Vick deciding to kill a dog, and Hainesworth deciding to ignore his probation from the previous incident and get in a car and drive like that.
 
HapHaszard said:
Huly, according to text message to WP from Cerrato its a definate NO on Vick
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No offense Hap but this is the same Vinny Cerrato who stood in front of reporters on the first or second day of camp last year and said the Skins were not interested in Jason Taylor. I'm not saying he is lying this time too but I won't completely believe it until Vick has a contract somewhere else.

Not that I think it likely, you understand, because I don't but...
 
HapHaszard said:
I don't see much difference between Vick deciding to kill a dog, and Hainesworth deciding to ignore his probation from the previous incident and get in a car and drive like that.
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I agree with what you were saying, until you get to the above statement.

I see a huge difference.

HUGE.
 
Neophyte said:
No offense Hap but this is the same Vinny Cerrato who stood in front of reporters on the first or second day of camp last year and said the Skins were not interested in Jason Taylor. I'm not saying he is lying this time too but I won't completely believe it until Vick has a contract somewhere else.

Not that I think it likely, you understand, because I don't but...
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That is part of my fear and the other part is we all know the players are housed at Lansdowne and why would he be in Ashburn (the week of TC) and so close to Redskins Park if there was not something going on there.
 
Ax said:
I agree with what you were saying, until you get to the above statement.

I see a huge difference.

HUGE.
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I guess we will have to disagree, I love my dog, but if it were a choice between him and a person's life, I may hesitate but I'd choose the person, sorry but I place human life above that of an animal. Hainesworth choice could have resulted in a death rather than an injury.
 
Neophyte said:
No offense Hap but this is the same Vinny Cerrato who stood in front of reporters on the first or second day of camp last year and said the Skins were not interested in Jason Taylor. I'm not saying he is lying this time too but I won't completely believe it until Vick has a contract somewhere else.

Not that I think it likely, you understand, because I don't but...
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You know I totally forgot that incident. I guess that tells us how good Vinnie's word is. :(
 
HapHaszard said:
I guess we will have to disagree, I love my dog, but if it were a choice between him and a person's life, I may hesitate but I'd choose the person, sorry but I place human life above that of an animal. Hainesworth choice could have resulted in a death rather than an injury.
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I think the difference is this:

Hainesworth was not out to intentionally hurt someone. It was still an accident.

Vick intentionally murdered dogs.

I have been young and dumb and broke 100mph a few times just to see what my car could do but I would never even consider taking a life be it animal or human.
 
Huly said:
I think the difference is this:

Hainesworth was not out to intentionally hurt someone. It was still an accident.

Vick intentionally murdered dogs.

I have been young and dumb and broke 100mph a few times just to see what my car could do but I would never even consider taking a life be it animal or human.
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Huly,
I guess its because I drove for a living for 5 years after I retired from IBM. I have seen some very brutal accidents on the highway. I think the most horrible thing I ever saw was a car on fire with a 3 year old in it and we couldn't get close because of the heat, the result of an accident caused by someone driving at a very excessive speed weaving between lanes. We have all been young an dumb, but usually if we were caught we didn't go out and do it again. That is the point I'm making. Hainesworth made the choice to do so. If it was a first offense I doubt I would say a word about it.
 
HapHaszard said:
Huly,
I guess its because I drove for a living for 5 years after I retired from IBM. I have seen some very brutal accidents on the highway. I think the most horrible thing I ever saw was a car on fire with a 3 year old in it and we couldn't get close because of the heat, the result of an accident caused by someone driving at a very excessive speed weaving between lanes. We have all been young an dumb, but usually if we were caught we didn't go out and do it again. That is the point I'm making. Hainesworth made the choice to do so. If it was a first offense I doubt I would say a word about it.
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I agree 100% with it not being his first offense and seeing brutal wrecks. I assume I am more anti-dog fighting then most as I have had to put the dogs back together and I have seen it up close.

I was just using me as an example. Lucky for me nothing happened and I just received my first speeding ticket this year but as a kid with a hot rod I thought I was invincible.
 
I stated elsewhere my distaste for the idea of Vick being with the Skins; here's why. The nature of the posts in this thread show a level of emotional revulsion at Vick's history of animal cruelty which I share. The question to me is-how would his potential teammates feel if he were on the team? There is such a thing as team "chemistry", a feeling of "oneness", for lack of a better word-a sense of commonality of purpose, it's akin to being a member of a family. Lack of this is hurtful to a sports team of any kind and I believe that Vick's presence would be detrimental to the team on that level. His teammates may not speak of it publicly or may even try to put it out of their conscious minds but they're human beings and as such if they, as most people seem to be, are disgusted with a Vick's behavior, it will eventually show in team performance. That's also why I hinted that any team picking him up, either this year or next year, may be in for problems, if not immediately, then in the future.

As far as the Haynesworth speeding issue-I think the public perception, right or wrong, is that of car accidents being just that-accidents and animal cruelty is judged using a different set of standards. Speeding while driving, even recklessly, is something commonplace and done by so many people that it's simply accepted more easily than something like deliberate cruelty to animals. I believe this is why the speeding issue has received much less publicity and attention than Vick's treatment of his dogs.
 
Huly said:
I agree 100% with it not being his first offense and seeing brutal wrecks. I assume I am more anti-dog fighting then most as I have had to put the dogs back together and I have seen it up close.

I was just using me as an example. Lucky for me nothing happened and I just received my first speeding ticket this year but as a kid with a hot rod I thought I was invincible.
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Huly, I don't condone what Vick did, and I really would hate it if he were on our team. I know Hainesworth will make the team better on defense, but I am really not a fan of his. I was answering your question about what would we think if players like Stallworth were on the team, and I felt that Hainesworth was the same as Stallworth. Just a matter of degree. Somehow this has degenerated into me sounding like I was defending Vick which is not what I intended. I don't condone cruelty to animals not do I associate with people like that.
 
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