Mike Wise: Teammates to Albert Haynesworth: You should be at Redskins Park

Lanky Livingston said:

By calling the money irrelevant, you're ignoring the 800 lb gorilla in the room. SHOULD it be irrelevant? Probably, in a perfect world. IS it irrelevant? Not a chance.

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sorry...disagree. these players are concerned about THEIR scratch. not what another man makes. pour these words through your lips "Albert made X millions last year...he ought to be here." nope. I don't think so. No player is gonna begrudge another his benjamins. they want him there...but for other reasons.

Hog Fever said:

When you pay any player that kind of money you expect them to bring more to the table that game changing ability. So yes, it matters. Generally a QB is the highest paid offensive player and is expected to be more than just a guy who throws passes. More is expected of Albert as well.

You can always go back and question the wisdom of signing a guy, who we knew had some baggage, to that kind of deal. We should have KNOWN he was not comfortable being a team leader. So Vinny has stabbed at us from the grave on this acquisition. We clearly aren’t going to get any more from him than what he is contractually required to give us. That’s too bad, not only for the team but for his legacy as well. I’m not going to let it keep me up at night though.

In the end if Albert plays well this season all of this will quickly be forgotten. If the team doesn’t play well, particularly the defense, the fans and media are going to be all over him, and he’ll be as much to blame for not building any good will with the fans and his teammates as the team will be for having signed him in the first place.

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hmmm...win we love you. lose we hate you. yup...that's a dynamic that is profoundly long-term! if fans are that fickle...why would a player care? I know I wouldn't. I'd fake it realizing that fans are entirely unreliable.

more is expected? so now a DT is like a QB? this is all nonsense. AH aint the leader of the team or in the locker room. the size of his paycheck doesn't make him so. he is an individual with a personality, a set of skills and a contract to perform on the field. He wasn't signed to be a leader in the locker room or to participate in April/May weightlifting exercises like he had cancer and wasn't expected to survive the year. He's getting paid to show up when its mandatory, be in shape, know the scheme/learn the changes from previous seasons, make the other players around him better and excel himself at what he is asked to do. the real issue presently is whether he is willing to do what Haslet is gonna ask him to do - that's where I agree with those who think "STFU and do as you are asked/paid to do to the best of your abilities." that's where the action is at and that is what folks should really be upset about. all this stuff about April/May is chicken you know what that is extraneous, secondary puffery in the minds of people who aren't on the field themselves or simply projecting their own life's frustrations (how's that for totally unsupported psychoanalysis!).

when everything is said and done - do you really see these players stressing over this? H NO!!!! They're waiting just like the staff to see what shows up for the first mandatory workout and on into training camp. if he's in shape and works into the scheme - this will all be a 2 mo exercise in over-indulgent lip-smacking by the fans. if he roils the waters - then exact a price. this is what is playing out right now.

Are you suggesting my take on the dynamic is wrong or just unfortunate? Fans are extremely fickle and suggesting they aren't is ignoring reality. Why does the Super Bowl winning team sell the most jerseys almost every year? The casual fan is going to judge this team on wins and losses. That will fuel attendance and a large portion of merchandise sales to boot.

As for Albert, perception is reality. If Albert isn't attending workouts that the rest of the team is attending (even though it's not mandatory) it's fair to question his commitment. If he shows up to camp out of shape (like last season) it's fair to question his commitment. I could go on.

Like it or not the size of the paycheck DOES establish a pecking order in the locker room, in the press and by the fans. A DT is definitely not as important as a QB and that was exactly my point. By signing him to the size contract we did the team valued his contribution as such. That level of commitment by the team should get a level of commitment from the player that goes way beyond just doing the bare minimum. In all fairness we should have known what type of guy he was before we signed him. If that wasn't acceptable we should have passed on signing him.

At this stage the money doesn't even really matter because the majority of the contract has already been paid out but he'll always be known as the 100 million dollar man. I think the fans and his teammates see what he can do when motivated and it's something very few if any other players can do. That can be a great value to the team or a horrible waste of talent. Everyone wants the former.

I think this thread is hilarious

You guys have already wasted more words (and time typing them) than Albert ****ing Haynesworth would care enough to chime in with

He'll show up for mandatory's, because the only thing he cares about is his paycheck, and not showing up puts that at risk.

Period.

The *supposed* fan who's hyperventilating over Haynesworth being absent is a straw man. Frankly, I haven't see anyone hyperventilating, so those arguing fans shouldn't hyperventilate should take notice: you're talking to yourself again. At least on this board Saying Big Al is a big dick (and a drama queen) for making a point NOT to be in Ashburn isn't overreaction. It's just calling it like it is.

The biggest question no one is particularly talking about is whether Haynesworth is the most overrated and overpaid defensive player in NFL history, not whether he should be in non-mandatory team sessions or not.

Hog Fever said:

Are you suggesting my take on the dynamic is wrong or just unfortunate? Fans are extremely fickle and suggesting they aren't is ignoring reality. Why does the Super Bowl winning team sell the most jerseys almost every year? The casual fan is going to judge this team on wins and losses. That will fuel attendance and a large portion of merchandise sales to boot.

As for Albert, perception is reality. If Albert isn't attending workouts that the rest of the team is attending (even though it's not mandatory) it's fair to question his commitment. If he shows up to camp out of shape (like last season) it's fair to question his commitment. I could go on.

Like it or not the size of the paycheck DOES establish a pecking order in the locker room, in the press and by the fans. A DT is definitely not as important as a QB and that was exactly my point. By signing him to the size contract we did the team valued his contribution as such. That level of commitment by the team should get a level of commitment from the player that goes way beyond just doing the bare minimum. In all fairness we should have known what type of guy he was before we signed him. If that wasn't acceptable we should have passed on signing him.

At this stage the money doesn't even really matter because the majority of the contract has already been paid out but he'll always be known as the 100 million dollar man. I think the fans and his teammates see what he can do when motivated and it's something very few if any other players can do. That can be a great value to the team or a horrible waste of talent. Everyone wants the former.

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well..I was surprised to learn tonight that Bahgdad Larry pretty much holds the same position I do: not mandatory; substance of the matter is he wants to work out with his specialist; wait and see what happens when mandatory workouts commence.

dude....only one team wins the SB every year...somehow...the finances of the NFL don't indicate the financial priorities or attendance patterns your theory implies. dallas (or the Redskins!) haven't won a SB in a long, long, long time - but the finances look pretty good! wining obviously matetrs, but there is more to a brand than that.

question his committment - based on your definition of what commitment means. the point is you don't know. no one else has to agree to your definition or conclusion. the externals you refer to are secondary. what matters first is performance on the field. that's what he is paid for. it's laughable to assume for even a nanosecond that the Skins signed AH for his locker room skills or leadership. he was signed because he is a dominating DT who elevated the play of the players around him significantly when he played for the Titans. your ideas only have substance in a negative sense: he's not being paid to be disruptive. rational people can disgree - I happen to find the idea that AH didn't show for weightlifting and bonding in April is somehow earthshakingly disruptive laughable. the importance some are attaching to a month of activity that's only a few hrs a day and a 3 day voluntary workout is ludicrous. I repeat - when the workouts become mandatory is when the rubber meets the road. if AH arrives in shape and works with the coaching staff and his teamates - April will be less than meaningless. no one will care - least of all the players who are so covetous of others salaries.

again...why not the same rancor against McIntosh? The cat has showed for a 3 day rookie camp...that's it.

btw....the notion that a player who is paid more should demonstrate more commitment is also silly. is there a scale for this? it's ok for players paid less to be less committed?

again...the coaching staff has been noticeably quiet in all of this. the primary goal is...as you say...to win. the staff knows AH increases the likelihood of that happening. it's in their interest to have him in the starting lineup come Sep. it should be obvious to everyone that getting AH into the weightroom in Apr is not the staff's priority - it would be nice and probably tries their patience - but the cost benefit calculus doesn't support dumping AH based on 3 hrs a day of weightlifting. it's gonna be up to AH to show up in shape and get with the program when mandatory workouts begin.

This will be my last post on this because this is going nowhere and it seems you can't even agree with me that successful teams sell more merchandise and sell more tickets to their games.

So, for the record: Never once did I say anything about this being an earthshaking event. In fact my point was we should expect more for AH but if he ended up playing well nobody would care by the time the regular season rolled around. If he doesn't play well the fact that he isn't around for the the voluntary workouts will be used against him by some fans and media. That's it, and I stand by that.

What I think is "silly" about your position is that when you pay more for something you don't seem to expect more. Do you take that position when buying a house or a car? Of course not. But hey, it's your money, why should I care...

Nobody knows what the coaching staff thinks. They probably have concluded that it's best to just wait and see how this plays out. What realistic choice do they have? You're right in saying it's all on AH at this point.

Hog Fever said:

This will be my last post on this because this is going nowhere and it seems you can't even agree with me that successful teams sell more merchandise and sell more tickets to their games.

So, for the record: Never once did I say anything about this being an earthshaking event. In fact my point was we should expect more for AH but if he ended up playing well nobody would care by the time the regular season rolled around. If he doesn't play well the fact that he isn't around for the the voluntary workouts will be used against him by some fans and media. That's it, and I stand by that.

What I think is "silly" about your position is that when you pay more for something you don't seem to expect more. Do you take that position when buying a house or a car? Of course not. But hey, it's your money, why should I care...

Nobody knows what the coaching staff thinks. They probably have concluded that it's best to just wait and see how this plays out. What realistic choice do they have? You're right in saying it's all on AH at this point.

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you're right - this has been a painful exercise at times.

I do believe you have missed the subtlety that both you and I agree that more is expected - we just see the expression of that expectation falling into different areas. You think there is some golden rule that a big contract happens to incur all sorts of extra responsibilities. I happen to believe AH was signed to play to all-pro levels and elevate the play of the defense overall and his fellow linemen specifically. The Skins knew in advance that AH is not a locker room room rah rah type/vocal leader. You think by virtue of the fact that he has a huge contract he is OBLIGATED to participate in voluntary workouts as some implicit leadership function. I disagree. let's leave it at that.

there are many other things much more suited to getting vexed over! this is small potatos and will take care of itself in time. enjoy your weekend and I hope to see you soon in these cyber parts!