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Redskins Name Doug Williams Senior Vice President of Player Development

Rivera has never had an All Pro QB. He's had a QB who went to the Pro Bowl - big difference. I watch a lot of Panther's football. In 9 seasons, Cam Newton only completed 60% of his passes 3 times. He only threw for more than 3500 yds 3 times. He only threw more than 24 TDs once. In his 7 playoff appearances, he had 10 interceptions and 5 fumbles.

On the positive side, Cam generally has not turned the ball over a ton in the regular season. Of course, he was a very good rushing QB especially early on, although even there, he had 3 or 4 seasons where he scored an impressive # of TDs or eye-popping total yards rushing the ball.

He had the one really great season - not coincidentally it was the Super Bowl year. Other than that - Newton has been above average at best. I like Cam - contrary to his rep, he's a team player and he has been a great team rep in Charlotte. The fans here have always loved him. But he hasn't been the reason for Rivera's success imho. That defense Carolina has had most years has been what's made them fairly successful over the Newton years. To be fair, maybe Newton could've been a bigger force on those teams, but Rivera likes to pound the rock, and not being exceptionally accurate, I think lead to more conservative playcalling than mightve been the case if they trusted Newton more putting the ball in the air.


I May have misspoke about his All-PRo status, I thought his super bowl season he was...that doesn't neglect the fact that he was one of the better QB"S in the league, mostly because of the intangibles you didn't mention.

Say what you will about Cam Newton, Dewayne Haskins is not him, nor do I believe he will ever be.
 
Rivera has never had an All Pro QB. He's had a QB who went to the Pro Bowl - big difference. I watch a lot of Panther's football. In 9 seasons, Cam Newton only completed 60% of his passes 3 times. He only threw for more than 3500 yds 3 times. He only threw more than 24 TDs once. In his 7 playoff appearances, he had 10 interceptions and 5 fumbles.

On the positive side, Cam generally has not turned the ball over a ton in the regular season. Of course, he was a very good rushing QB especially early on, although even there, he had 3 or 4 seasons where he scored an impressive # of TDs or eye-popping total yards rushing the ball.

He had the one really great season - not coincidentally it was the Super Bowl year. Other than that - Newton has been above average at best. I like Cam - contrary to his rep, he's a team player and he has been a great team rep in Charlotte. The fans here have always loved him. But he hasn't been the reason for Rivera's success imho. That defense Carolina has had most years has been what's made them fairly successful over the Newton years. To be fair, maybe Newton could've been a bigger force on those teams, but Rivera likes to pound the rock, and not being exceptionally accurate, I think lead to more conservative playcalling than mightve been the case if they trusted Newton more putting the ball in the air.

Poorly coached...eh?
 
I May have misspoke about his All-PRo status, I thought his super bowl season he was...that doesn't neglect the fact that he was one of the better QB"S in the league, mostly because of the intangibles you didn't mention.

Say what you will about Cam Newton, Dewayne Haskins is not him, nor do I believe he will ever be.

I was trying to be clever. He probably was named to the Pro Bowl. I'm just saying he's never been an elite QB.

Haskins is clearly a better passer than Newton ever has been - it's evident already. Whether or not he can become a dominant QB, I don't think anyone knows.
 
I was trying to be clever. He probably was named to the Pro Bowl. I'm just saying he's never been an elite QB.

Haskins is clearly a better passer than Newton ever has been - it's evident already. Whether or not he can become a dominant QB, I don't think anyone knows.

I don't know how you can say this. Newton has over 60% completion ratio for his career, and doesn't throw a lot of picks. He was league MVP the year they won the Super Bowl, and you're suggesting Haskins already throws better? Oh and that MVP season was the 1 year he was an all-pro.

Look, I don't like Cam Newton...never thought he'd have so much success in the NFL, but Ron Rivera's best years were with him at the helm. Without him, he was never above .500.
 
I don't know how you can say this. Newton has over 60% completion ratio for his career, and doesn't throw a lot of picks. He was league MVP the year they won the Super Bowl, and you're suggesting Haskins already throws better? Oh and that MVP season was the 1 year he was an all-pro.

Look, I don't like Cam Newton...never thought he'd have so much success in the NFL, but Ron Rivera's best years were with him at the helm. Without him, he was never above .500.

You love to argue - it wears me out :) You seemed to imply that Cam Newton was an elite or near elite QB. I acknowledged he went to the Pro Bowl - once - in their Super Bowl year. I also brought up how great he played in that Super Bowl season. And that he doesn't throw a lot of picks - until he gets to the playoffs when he dishes them out like candy. He's a sub 60% passer for his career - look it up if you need to. I gave lots of other reasons I don't think he's great, but just above average. I promise you I've watched triple the Cam Newton performances and I gave you the stats that cause me to rate him lower than you do.

And what do you mean Rivera's 'best years were with him at the helm'? They joined the Panthers the same season and prior to this past season, Newton only missed 6 total starts.

Here's what I'm arguing. Rivera made Newton a better QB than he would've been anywhere else. He's just not a super accurate passer. The Panther's mitigated that by using his athleticism, letting him take off when it was there, and by 'pounding' the rock. I don't think Newton has ever been a great QB.

As for Haskins - we don't know whether he's a bust or will keep improving. I don't know anyway. But he definitely is a better passer right now than Newton ever has been. Just my opinion. I didn't say he has played better than Newton to date. I said he has a better arm and is a more accurate passer. My opinion.
 
Oh - and remember for the historical record, if Haskins does prove to be a bust, that I'm the one who said the Redskins should draft Burrow if he's there at #2 and let the two guys battle it out. I'd absolutely do that if he was there. We've gotta have a great QB and that's the best chance we have to hedge our bets in case Haskins isn't who we hope he is.
 
I acknowledged he went to the Pro Bowl - once - in their Super Bowl year.

You said he was not an All-Pro, and had me questioning what I thought was truth. Turns out, not only was I correct he was an All-Pro, I had forgotten he was the league MVP...that's pretty elite, if only a short period of time...3 Pro-Bowls, All-Pro, and league MVP is elite status in a 3 year period.


And John, check your numbers...Haskins career completion ratio is 58%...that's less in far less time (9 games), than Cam over 9 seasons.
 
Oh - and remember for the historical record, if Haskins does prove to be a bust, that I'm the one who said the Redskins should draft Burrow.

I would rather have Burrow, too. I would just rather have more picks than either him or chase young. We can find our QB in a year or 2 when the team is built to compete.
 
Oh - and remember for the historical record, if Haskins does prove to be a bust, that I'm the one who said the Redskins should draft Burrow if he's there at #2 and let the two guys battle it out. I'd absolutely do that if he was there. We've gotta have a great QB and that's the best chance we have to hedge our bets in case Haskins isn't who we hope he is.

0% chance Burrow is there at 2, but I agree. I can't believe there are people who would rather just be “content” with Haskins and see what there is than draft Burrow.
 
You aren't reading my responses. He did have 3 pro bowls - that's my bad. We all know that's not a measure of greatness regardless. I explained what I meant by ‘he's not an All-Pro'. I also acknowledged that Haskins hasn't achieved Newton's #'s so far as a rookie - but that he's still got a better arm and is more accurate (I'm not basing that on his rookie stats in a handful of games).

Less than 60% completion rate over almost a decade of starts is not elite QBing or even close to it. And he's been bad in the post-season and a non- factor since the Super Bowl year.

It's a silly argument. The only reason I joined in it is because I think the idea that Newton somehow carried Ron Rivera at Carolina is off base.


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0% chance Burrow is there at 2, but I agree. I can't believe there are people who would rather just be “content” with Haskins and see what there is than draft Burrow.

When Tua passes his physical in April they will consider him. There could also be teams that covet Chase Young so much they are willing to trade up to 1 to get him. I suspect this will be a low drama draft though and the Bengals will take Burrow and we grab Young. But you never know...


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It's a silly argument. The only reason I joined in it is because I think the idea that Newton somehow carried Ron Rivera at Carolina is off base.


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I stated Rivera needed an elite QB to be more than just competitive...sounds like you're not reading my posts. The seasons he was most successful, was when Cam was playing at elite levels, i.e., pro-bowls, league MVP, and all-pro honors over a 3 year period. Over that period of time the Panthers won the Division 3 years in a row and went to the Super Bowl.

Without the elite play at the QB position, they have had only 1 winning season.


Edit: And you're still my best friend.
 
I stated Rivera needed an elite QB to be more than just competitive...sounds like you're not reading my posts. The seasons he was most successful, was when Cam was playing at elite levels, i.e., pro-bowls, league MVP, and all-pro honors over a 3 year period. Over that period of time the Panthers won the Division 3 years in a row and went to the Super Bowl.

Without the elite play at the QB position, they have had only 1 winning season.


Edit: And you're still my best friend.

You're still sleeping on the couch tonight :)


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.....Over that period of time the Panthers won the Division 3 years in a row and went to the Super Bowl..
To be fair, one of those years they won was with a losing record when the entire division was horrible. I wouldn't consider that brag worthy.
 
Not sure why everyone is so down on Haskins. In his 5 starts he improved his completion % and QB rating. Not even a third of the season is what he started and improved each time out behind a makeshift o-line and a plan B RB.
 
To be fair, one of those years they won was with a losing record when the entire division was horrible. I wouldn't consider that brag worthy.

I don't care what you think!


:peep:
 
Just hope Haskins can produce. As give him a chance.
 
Not sure why everyone is so down on Haskins. In his 5 starts he improved his completion % and QB rating. Not even a third of the season is what he started and improved each time out behind a makeshift o-line and a plan B RB.

Agreed. He also did this going through 2 head coaches, no TE's, and WR's as green as he is. So, will be nice to have some stability at least going forward. And a Defense that has to be better than Manusky's, haha.
 
Agreed. He also did this going through 2 head coaches, no TE's, and WR's as green as he is. So, will be nice to have some stability at least going forward. And a Defense that has to be better than Manusky's, haha.


Don't forget the fact that they the playcalling basically changed 3 times over that period. Gruden started, Callahan dictated to KOC, then the last couple games KOC took the reigns, or at least thats what I heard was reported.


3 different offensive philosophies.
 
I am more than likely in the minority here; but I am not a Doug Williams fan. I don't know what he brings to the team besides a shiny object of "look at super bowl QB". His coaching and front office resume does not look like he deserves a Sr VP role with any organization. I would have liked to seen him walked out with the lump of them instead of shuffling him to some other role.
 

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