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  1. #81

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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    Whoever is hired...they have to be strong enough to stand up to the front office. But that is precisely the sort of individual DS does not want in his employ.
    I think this misses the point. If we have a strong, competent GM - the HC won't have a reason to 'stand up' to the front office. It's not a HC's place to 'stand up' to the front office to begin with. Only in dysfunctional DC is this considered a necessity. A great GM shapes the roster, the team philosophy, and brings in a HC who by definition is on board with the established direction.

    If we don't hire a strong, competent GM and Bruce Allen is still the primary power broker, it doesn't matter who we hire.
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  2. #82

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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I think this misses the point. If we have a strong, competent GM - the HC won't have a reason to 'stand up' to the front office. It's not a HC's place to 'stand up' to the front office to begin with. Only in dysfunctional DC is this considered a necessity. A great GM shapes the roster, the team philosophy, and brings in a HC who by definition is on board with the established direction.

    If we don't hire a strong, competent GM and Bruce Allen is still the primary power broker, it doesn't matter who we hire.
    I didn't miss the point. It was made on the assumption that Brudan aren't going anywhere. The hole in your retort is "a great GM". Produce that and a combative HC isn't required. Obviously, the bottom line is that leadership at all levels has to be in sync. I was addressing the present context in which we are likely stuck with knuckle and head as GM and owner. In that case, I want a HC who stands up to the FO when necessary to prevent the mediocre/outlandishly stupid from happening. I understand that might detract from the "damn good culture" the Skins FO has carefully nurtured.....but what the hay!
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  3. #83
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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    Want to find a coach that can and will want to win. As really as well as trying to be a player's coach, not really a Yes man. But telling it like it is!
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    Super Bowl in Miami Florida 2/2/2020!

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I think this misses the point. If we have a strong, competent GM - the HC won't have a reason to 'stand up' to the front office. It's not a HC's place to 'stand up' to the front office to begin with. Only in dysfunctional DC is this considered a necessity. A great GM shapes the roster, the team philosophy, and brings in a HC who by definition is on board with the established direction.

    If we don't hire a strong, competent GM and Bruce Allen is still the primary power broker, it doesn't matter who we hire.
    I don't really know as much about management structures as you guys do, but I don't think it's that simple for a few reasons. First of all, I find it extremely unlikely that Snyder is going to dump Allen and bring in a "strong GM" and hand the operation over to said "strong gm". I know it's probably what should happen, but I got some bad news for you old friend: it aint happenin'.

    Secondly, I think Snyder and his current FO are probably pretty excited about the young talent they have drafted over the past couple/few seasons, and rightfully so. Whatever we think about Snyder and Allen, the Skins have really drafted pretty well in recent years, and they're not going to want to blow the whole roster up. Now I don't know who has been making these draft picks(Williams?), but what is the new GM going to do with that individual and what is he going to think about the Skins' young talent. No, I just don't see Snyder taking that chance. I don't think his ego is capable of doing so.

    I think we need to be realistic with our expectations here. The odds of Snyder hiring a strong gm and the Skins becoming the next Patriots or Ravens are pretty slim, but that doesn't mean the Skins can't be competitive with the right coach that can function within the Skins' dysfunctional universe. The Skins can't bring in another big-ego, won a couple rings coach like Tomlin, or we'll wind up with the same situation that we had with Shanahan - the coach thinks he knows better than the FO and dysfunction ensues. Think Shanny and RG3. Conversely, if the Skins bring in the next up and coming superstar coordinator, who would rather have players that fit his super-duper system than have to build a system that fits his players, a la Jay Gruden, well that's probably not going to work either.

    No, the Skins need a good, old school coach who is humble, believes in hard work, and is perfectly fine with trying to build a system that makes sense for the players he is given. This is why I'm starting to think, and I know you and probably almost everyone else in here think I'm nuts, that Callahan just might be that guy. I'm not all in yet on Callahan. I have to see what happens the rest of this season, but if not him someone like him. A coach who believes in running the ball and playing physical football, practicing in pads without music playing on the PA, and just generally demanding that his players be physically and mentally prepared.

    I actually don't think the Skins are as bereft of talent as their play would indicate. I just think they were the softest team in football under Gruden. I think you get rid of the divas(Norman, Trent, Moses, ect), install a culture of tough mental and physical preparation, and put a stud oline in front of Haskins and Guice and we just might be pretty good. Probably a pipe dream I know!!
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  5. #85

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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    ok...so this isn't the place for a deep dive...but I'll advance some theories/hypotheses and, perhaps, common sense into the conversation.

    I had a lengthy post that used computer architecture development as a thought process analogue for thinking about a football team. The focus was on how one develops a computing solution for a problem/set of problems. I'll skip all that and get to the punchline. You can think of a football franchise as a social entity whose collective goal is, simplifying, to win Superbowls year in and year out. As one breaks this down, there are multiple "components" of the currently practiced model for achieving this goal: the organizational structure of the franchise; the roles of the various actors (owner, GM, scouts, financial officers, medical staff, trainers, players, coaches, etc., etc.); supporting systems (e.g., stadium, field, travel, etc.); processes (the interactions among the components that combine to produce the output; for example, training camp, scouting, practice, film study, weight room training); constraints (e.g., rules of the game); culture; environment.... a whole "bunch of stuff" that one can decompose a problem into. The abstract model used to solve the problem leverages theory (e.g., how motivate young players, how physically develop and train players to be less susceptible to injury), hypothesis, best practice (known successful) models/organizational structures/coaching styles/football systems (offense, defense, special teams), integration, operation, maintenance, feedback/improvement, and so on.

    I'm pretty *amn sure the Patriots at some point engaged in this thought process (like the Ravens obviously have) and developed an obviously successful vision/model for how they were going to organize, staff, command & control, etc., to win championships. Just as in computing there are differing computing architectures, instruction sets, microarchitectures for solving problems, so are there different models for conceiving, implementing and operating football franchises. From this perspective, coupled to decades of observed behaviours and outcomes, I come to the not so brilliant conclusion that Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder do not and never will have the vision, ability, talent, experience, habits of mind, leadership, human skills to integrate all the components into a holistic "approach" to winning. I will concede that in most fields of human endeavor it's very rare to find these sorts of individuals. That said, in my mind, the folks at the top of the Redskins are singularly unqualified for this visionary/leadership challenge. Not only that, I believe (admittedly on anecdotal information) that they rank among the bottom dwellers when ranked against their peers. The system itself (i.e., the NFL) helps the team (and all teams) to level the playing field somewhat (e.g., draft position for player abilities, TV revenues for financing), but the teams routinely at the top these days have leadership that make the difference. To get back to an argument I have had with Boone, it is precisely if one looks at football as a business and breaks it down into its primary functions (the components) that one can easily see that Mr Snyder is not a visionary or a capable leader. Bruce Allen? pfffft.

    As noted, there will be episodes of temporary success partly because the NFL is designed for this (i.e., parity). But sustained success? This franchise with this FO? No chance at all for sustained excellence.

    They have no vision/no model for sustained success. One simple obervable is the total inconsistency in the coaches they hire. There is almost no common theme in all these hires.

    The BRUDAN: they can get you down the block in a car and drop you off without incident; no way you have them speed you around the race track in a race filled with better drivers.
    Last edited by fansince62; 11-28-19 at 08:39 AM.
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  6. #86

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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    Hope a new GM takes a look at a guy like Matt Rhule.

    Success in college and as an assistant in the NFL.
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    Coaches change,players change. The on field product never changes.

  7. #87
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    Army

    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    I'd like to see us get Matt Campbell, Lincoln Riley, Eric Bieniemy or Dave Toub.

    Unfortunately, Dan is a name chaser. So we'll end up with Mike Tomlin, Mike McCarthy, or Rex Ryan. And in 4-6 years we'll be right back where we are now. It's Dan Snyder's circle of life.
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  8. #88
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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    I definitely want to see a coach who thoroughly believes in practice preparation and puts our players in the best chance to succeed. Having a skins team so ready to play on Sunday's that their opposition has no idea what to expect from series to series, game to game.

    Accountability in himself and the team is priority #1
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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    Here's a little ESPN write-up on potential names. Never considered how many other teams will be dipping into the new coach and or GM pool til recently, but there's a few so Dan needs to get planning on names.

    Option 1 hangs on how the team finishes the season. "If" the skins can close out strong as hell (win out) then Win's plan is as follows
    Fire Bruce in a ceremony style Cesar shanking
    Promote Santos or Schaffer with a no meddling clause into the contract details
    Bill Callahan HC, Kevin O'Connell OC, Tomsula DC
    This option leaves major continuity and for the most part & the majority of changes are job titles

    Option 2 is more scorched earth which means the team regresses back to Gruden style antics and shits the bed for the remaining 4 games
    Fire Bruce Allen in a ceremony style Jack the Ripper style shanking
    Hire Mike Borgonzi from the Chiefs as new GM
    Eric Bieniemy HC/OC, Dave Borgonzi (GM's brother/Colts lb's)) DC
    Bonus cheif-The Andy Heck!!! as o-line coach


    The Chiefs have had a top 5 offense for 3 years in a row now so it's obvious they know offense. Whether it's all Andy Reid or not is up for debate

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ends-know-2020
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  10. #90

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    Default Who will be the new Head Coach

    I don’t think ‘how the team finishes’ will or should have any bearing on what they do in terms of hiring. If Snyder persists along the path of Bruce Allen as chief decision-maker, we will have zero options a for a quality head coach because the environment will be considered toxic and dysfunctional. Moving on from Allen is essential.

    A late season run is a positive in that it likely would mean some of our youngsters are showing great promise. But winning some meaningless games would hardly be an endorsement of Bill Callahan or O’Connell. Neither is ready for prime time and may never be.


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  11. #91
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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I don’t think ‘how the team finishes’ will or should have any bearing on what they do in terms of hiring. If Snyder persists along the path of Bruce Allen as chief decision-maker, we will have zero options a for a quality head coach because the environment will be considered toxic and dysfunctional. Moving on from Allen is essential.

    A late season run is a positive in that it likely would mean some of our youngsters are showing great promise. But winning some meaningless games would hardly be an endorsement of Bill Callahan or O’Connell. Neither is ready for prime time and may never be.


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    Yeah, I've soured on O'Connell. I just want a strong minded defensive coach to come in and turn this ship around on the field. I was leaning toward Schwartz in a 2nd stint seeinging what it takes to win a Super Bowl under Peterson, but I'm leaning toward Saleh in San Fran.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    If anything Callahan has proven just how bad Jay’s coaching is/was. Jay was only 1 side of the triage of suckage though, Bruce and Manusky need to be relieved of duty as well.

    I most definitely wouldn’t want Josh McDaniel as a HC, like some of these articles nowadays suggest. Whatever direction the team goes in we have to have a GM that can assemble a staff that’s in harmony.
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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Win4us View Post
    If anything Callahan has proven just how bad Jay’s coaching is/was. Jay was only 1 side of the triage of suckage though, Bruce and Manusky need to be relieved of duty as well.

    I most definitely wouldn’t want Josh McDaniel as a HC, like some of these articles nowadays suggest. Whatever direction the team goes in we have to have a GM that can assemble a staff that’s in harmony.

    Daniels is gonna end up in Dallas, no worries here. He and Jerry will butt heads, and they won't succeed together. But it will be quick...2 years max.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    If we don't get a GM FIRST, a competent one that can hire not only a HC but guide the hiring of scouts, trainers etc, it's all for naught. If that doesn't happen, we're doomed again, no matter if we bring back Joe Gibbs from 1987
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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by GSF
    Whatever we think about Snyder and Allen, the Skins have really drafted pretty well in recent years, and they're not going to want to blow the whole roster up. Now I don't know who has been making these draft picks(Williams?), but what is the new GM going to do with that individual and what is he going to think about the Skins' young talent. No, I just don't see Snyder taking that chance. I don't think his ego is capable of doing so.
    I've heard this a lot. It was talked about in the offseason and now again ... where is this coming from? On what planet has a team that has drafted well gone from 9-7 to 7-9 to 7-9 to 3-forever? Do we have one or two promising guys a draft? Sure. McLaurin looks good. Sweat looks competent. Moreland can play.

    You know what? EVERY team gets guys like that. Every team drafts a couple guys that don't suck. That's like saying "I'm a good husband because I don't beat my wife." That's a bare minimum, not a virtue.

    No, there's nothing good or special about our drafts. The best I can say about our drafting since McLovin left town is we draft defense in the first round and our first rounders aren't busts. Unfurl a banner.

    Honestly, I think we've sucked so badly for so long, we don't know what good drafting looks like anymore.

    And where I do agree with you is that Snyder and Allen probably THINK they're drafting well. They probably see that all those first rounders they've used on the DL don't totally suck and that validates whatever the hell they think they're doing. I think because of that we'll be on this treadmill for some time longer. Allen may not even be gone at the end of the year. At this point that's more of a prayer than an expectation. And again I agree with most here that even if Allen does go, he'll be replaced by another Allen. I don't see a way that that dynamic is going to produce positive results anytime soon. I don't blame some of you for hoping, but I don't see it.
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  16. #96

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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    Personally, I would say we are drafting better than we used to. But that is, in effect, damning with faint praise.
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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    I've heard this a lot. It was talked about in the offseason and now again ... where is this coming from? On what planet has a team that has drafted well gone from 9-7 to 7-9 to 7-9 to 3-forever? Do we have one or two promising guys a draft? Sure. McLaurin looks good. Sweat looks competent. Moreland can play.

    You know what? EVERY team gets guys like that. Every team drafts a couple guys that don't suck. That's like saying "I'm a good husband because I don't beat my wife." That's a bare minimum, not a virtue.

    No, there's nothing good or special about our drafts. The best I can say about our drafting since McLovin left town is we draft defense in the first round and our first rounders aren't busts. Unfurl a banner.

    Honestly, I think we've sucked so badly for so long, we don't know what good drafting looks like anymore.

    And where I do agree with you is that Snyder and Allen probably THINK they're drafting well. They probably see that all those first rounders they've used on the DL don't totally suck and that validates whatever the hell they think they're doing. I think because of that we'll be on this treadmill for some time longer. Allen may not even be gone at the end of the year. At this point that's more of a prayer than an expectation. And again I agree with most here that even if Allen does go, he'll be replaced by another Allen. I don't see a way that that dynamic is going to produce positive results anytime soon. I don't blame some of you for hoping, but I don't see it.
    Your point is well taken. However - the 2019 draft was pretty damn good. You listed a few, but here's the complete list:

    Dwayne Haskins, QB, Ohio State.
    Montez Sweat, EDGE, Mississippi State.
    Terry McLaurin, WR, Ohio State.
    Bryce Love, RB, Stanford.
    Wes Martin, G, Indiana.
    Ross Pierschbacher, C, Alabama.
    Cole Holcomb, LB, North Carolina.
    Kelvin Harmon, WR, North Carolina State.
    Jimmy Moreland, DB, James Madison
    Jordan Brailford, EDGE, Oklahoma State

    That's 4 offensive starters and 3 defensive ones (plus a couple backups and Love who could be a future star). Yes - on a bad team. But just in rounds 5-7 we got Holcomb, Harmon, and Moreland. It's quite common for guys drafted in those spots not to even make rosters across the NFL.

    Setting aside the uber negativity just for a moment, 2019 was our best draft - in ages. If Haskins and Love pan out, it could be historically good.
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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    That's 4 offensive starters and 3 defensive ones (plus a couple backups and Love who could be a future star). Yes - on a bad team. But just in rounds 5-7 we got Holcomb, Harmon, and Moreland. It's quite common for guys drafted in those spots not to even make rosters across the NFL.
    Well, I think there is a distinction to be made between a ‘starter’ and ‘a player who has started.’

    On that list I see two guys who would be starting on any team that drafted him: McLaurin and Holcomb. I’d say the jury is out on Haskins and Sweat, and Harmon and Moreland show promise.

    That’s a typical draft for an average team. If all of the players above pan out then, yes, thats a fabulous draft. Given our history, thats not a given.
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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    The drafts the last few years have been better. They’ve been better since McClueless left. The problems are not the draft. The draft is only one aspect of building a team. Even if Allen has been great at drafting, which I think he’s been good not great, that’s only the start. Developing the players, getting players through free agency that fit and perform well, hiring coaches who can teach the players and develop them, hiring coaches who can coach well in game, and building an organization that is successful are things he fails at. Not to mention alienating personnel and fans. So discussing the draft and his success or even failures doesn’t change anything. He still sucks at his job overall and that’s why he needs to be fired.


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    Default Re: Who will be the new Head Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    Well, I think there is a distinction to be made between a ‘starter’ and ‘a player who has started.’

    On that list I see two guys who would be starting on any team that drafted him: McLaurin and Holcomb. I’d say the jury is out on Haskins and Sweat, and Harmon and Moreland show promise.

    That’s a typical draft for an average team. If all of the players above pan out then, yes, thats a fabulous draft. Given our history, thats not a given.
    Totally fair take


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