A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Disagree Disagree:  0
Post of the Year Post of the Year:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25
  1. #1
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-26-09
    Posts
    8
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default I favor drafting a QB at #4 and here's why:

    I've been thinking about this issue for several weeks now, ever since it became clear that we would have the #4 pick. Finally, it became clear to me that we should use that pick to select a QB even though my heart yearns for a dominant left tackle.

    The reason? Simple. It seems unlikely to me that we will have the opportunity to draft this high for some time and so may not have this chance to acquire a top flight QB for many years. If the organization believes that Bradford or Claussen or another QB shows the potential to be worthy of this elevated draft position, perhaps we should pull the trigger. It seems more likely that we could acquire a great OT later in the first round next year than we could a similarly rated QB at that position.

    That being said, I favor keeping Campbell via a high tender, a 1 and a 3 for example, because he will be better, as many have already said, that any rookie we might field. We don't have to demand those two particular picks even though we might have tendered him so. As an example we could, accept a 2 and a 3 if we found that acceptable. If someone bites on him, that's ok, as either of our other two QB's will be just fine until the rookie is ready to play and we can load up on other positions of need, in particular the OL if we don't address that significantly in free agency. At this low point in our franchises history, I'm much more concerned about building a proper foundation for the future than I am about our record next season.

    If we choose to go QB, that does not relieve us of the responsibility to bolster the OL though. Disregarding draft day trades or trading down. both of which seem like distinct possibilities to me in this uncapped season, we can still acquire a great tackle with our high 2nd rounder and a very good guard or center with our # 4.

    Pity is we have more needs that we have draft picks....hopefully, we can acquire additional ones come draft day.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  2. #2
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-19-09
    Location
    Bethesda Md
    Posts
    6,574
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)

    Default

    Brees was the 32nd pick in 2000.

    Marino was taken #27 overall, Montana was a 3rd round pick.

    No need to rush things UNLESS Shanahan really believes one of these guys is truly franchise material.

    One could easily make the same statement about left tackles.

    Ogden, Pace, Samuels,etc.

    The best tackles of the past decade plus were mostly first rounders if not top 10-15 picks.

    Doesn't seem the path to acquiring a dominant left tackle is any easier than finding a quarterback.
    Posted via BGO Mobile Device
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  3. #3
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-21-09
    Location
    Salisbury, Md.
    Posts
    171
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Well you said it yourself, " I'm much more concerned about building a proper foundation for the future than I am about our record next season".

    That is exactly why we need to draft OL and not QB. Your OL is your foundation of all things to come. Without it, it doesn't matter who plays QB. No blocking, no offense.

    That being said, I've drunk the kool-aide and whatever the FO and Coaching staff decide, I'll roll with it.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  4. #4
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    The Shadows of the Unknown
    Posts
    952
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    15
    Navy Salisbury

    Default

    Got to find a elite LT who can protect whomever is QB for the next 10 years or so.

    The foundations of the Redskins have been built on a strong running game throughout their most successful periods in their history.

    The foundations of Shanahan's (Mike) offense has been predicated on strong running performances.

    The same argument could be said about an elite offensive tackle at this spot as well.

    But I also have faith that Shanahan/Allen will find the right player at #4 unlike my total fear of a Snyder/Cerrato pick.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  5. #5
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-26-09
    Posts
    8
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I don't believe there is a LT in the draft worthy of the 4th pick. I'm not sure any of the QB's are supportable either. If Shanahan must pick at 4, and judges the QB's and OT's fairly equal, I hope he goes QB. Sit the young man on the bench, developing him for a year and draft OL in the 2nd and 4th rounds with the notion that we will pick up our LT in next years draft when there are expected to be several franchise types. Add that to a pickup or two in free agency and that's a plan I can support.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  6. #6
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-19-09
    Location
    Bethesda Md
    Posts
    6,574
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)

    Default

    If Vinny Cerrato were still here Jimmy Clausen would be the pick at #4.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  7. #7
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    10-20-09
    Location
    Falls Church VA
    Posts
    96
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    LT LT LT LT LT LT

    and I dont mean the RB or the one who killed our last franchise QB

    you put a big ol slab of beef on the left side and let him sit there for 10+ years then thank him for the job he's done for you.
    We just had one of the best ever play for us in Chris Samuels.

    The result? 0 division titles and 2 playoff apperances, 1 playoff win.

    Its the 21st century NFL. You need a top flight QB and when you have the chance to get one you do.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  8. #8
    2016 BGO Survivor Champ

    Join Date
    08-01-09
    Location
    My location
    Posts
    11,281
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Florida State

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by B&G View Post
    ....The reason? Simple. It seems unlikely to me that we will have the opportunity to draft this high for some time and so may not have this chance to acquire a top flight QB for many years....
    The argument that we should take a QB with this pick because it is such a high pick is invalid. It is just as important to have a franchise LT as there is a franchise QB. Too many questions about the 2 QB's being discussed.

    Joe Gibbs won 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QB's for a reason! He had dominant offensive lines!

    Trade down and get one of the other offensive tackles, we don't have to have Okung. Campbell, Davis, Bulaga, Williams, and Brown all appear to be fairly close in ability.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  9. #9
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    10-20-09
    Location
    Falls Church VA
    Posts
    96
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    that excuse is like the pig that built his house of straw. you cant even mean what you just said.

    the fact that we had that nutjob cerrato here, spurrier here and danny here trumps anything chris could do.

    its football 101 to know that you need a solid LT to defend the QBs blind side. they love him..we love them..coaches love them.

    you could have carl lewis out there and if he is getting his from his blind side he isnt winning any games
    We also had coach Gibbs here for 4 years. The downfall of Gibbs 2.0? Mediocre QB play, and the one year we got good QB play (2005) the offense was effective, even with late season injuries

    The only other time Gibbs 2.0 had good QB play was when Todd Collins came in at the end of 2007.

    Can you name Drew Brees' LT? Or Ben Rothlisberger's? Tom Brady?

    The point is, an o-line is a unit, you need 5 pretty good players there that work well together.

    As I showed on the other board, the last 10 Superbowl champions only had 7 first round o-linemen, and 12 UDFA o-lineman!

    You need quantity and quality, but without a QB you end up being the Cleveland Browns (who have a franchise LT in Joe Thomas) or the Vikings pre Brett Favre

    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    The argument that we should take a QB with this pick because it is such a high pick is invalid. It is just as important to have a franchise LT as there is a franchise QB. Too many questions about the 2 QB's being discussed.

    Joe Gibbs won 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QB's for a reason! He had dominant offensive lines!

    Trade down and get one of the other offensive tackles, we don't have to have Okung. Campbell, Davis, Bulaga, Williams, and Brown all appear to be fairly close in ability.
    The thing is, 21st century NFL success requires a quick thinking QB with a fast release. You won't be building Great Wall of China Hog like o-lines anymore.

    You need the QB first and let him develop and build the castle around him. If anything, you want him in sooner because of the learning curve it takes to be a QB
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  10. #10
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    10-20-09
    Location
    Falls Church VA
    Posts
    96
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    how about when trent freaking dilfer won one? who was the stud on the left side that time?

    big ben? youre going to talk about the same big ben who is always picking himself up off the dirt when he drops back to pass?

    and tom brady? What knee was hit when he got hurt?

    kurt warner's release has gone down dramatically since his days with the rams but yet he still went to the big dance. protection...

    ps..jermon bushrod
    Dilfer and the Ravens are the exception

    Or else you have Brady, Manning, Brees, Big Ben, Eli Manning

    The big number of course being that the last 10 Superbowl winning teams had more UDFA starting o-lineman then first round o-lineman

    Again, its a unit you are building with the o-line. The QB is one position.

    You get your franchise QB and you are penciling yourself into the playoffs each year, something we haven't been able to do in 2 decades.

    The last 3 "successful" Redskins seasons were a result of excellent QB play (1999- Johnson, 2005-Brunell, 2007-Collins) The o-line was outstanding in 2006 but the team sucked because the QB play was subpar

    As the rules continue to evolve giving offenses more advantages, you'll only see this correlation increase.

    Again, we had one of the best o-lineman in the history of this franchise the past decade in Samuels, but his only playoff appearances were in seasons where the QB play was excellent (or in Collins case, 4 games)
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  11. #11
    2016 BGO Survivor Champ

    Join Date
    08-01-09
    Location
    My location
    Posts
    11,281
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Florida State

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Call me Ismail View Post
    Can you name Drew Brees' LT? Or Ben Rothlisberger's? Tom Brady?...

    ...The thing is, 21st century NFL success requires a quick thinking QB with a fast release. You won't be building Great Wall of China Hog like o-lines anymore.

    You need the QB first and let him develop and build the castle around him. If anything, you want him in sooner because of the learning curve it takes to be a QB
    Drew Brees - late 1st round pick!
    Ben Rothlesberger - #11 pick!
    Tom Brady - 6th round pick!

    There is no QB in this draft worthy of the #4 pick. Okung seems to be worthy of the #4 pick but I believe we should trade down to pick up one of the nearly as talented lineman and gather another draft pick. I would rather have Dan Lefevour than take a chance on Bradford at #4.

    I know you are sold on Bradford! I agree, it would be nice to have a QB in position for the next 6-8 years at least! You are correct that we need a QB who can make quick decisions! But offensive line is still more important! Did you see how atrocious our offensive line was this past season? We had a QB who threw for over 3500 yards under those circumstances. What could he do if he had some protection? This draft is ripe with offensive line talent, not QB talent. We should strengthen our greatest weakness now while there is an abundance of lineman!

    I will admit that Brees is a great QB and is the Franchise QB that you suggest we should take with the #4 pick, but do you realize that the New Orleans Saints had 3/5's of their offensive line voted into the Pro Bowl?
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  12. #12
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    01-08-10
    Location
    Wheatland, ca
    Posts
    664
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I don't see a qb worthy of a 4th pick as well late in the first round there are a few but not at the 4th.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  13. #13

    Join Date
    06-30-09
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    4,071
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Call me Ismail View Post
    As I showed on the other board, the last 10 Superbowl champions only had 7 first round o-linemen, and 12 UDFA o-lineman!
    I think it should be noted that none of the starting LTs in the last 11 Super Bowls were UDFAs. In fact, all but two were drafted in the first 3 rounds (3 1st rounders, 1 2nd, 2 3rds). Only Jermon Bushrod of the Saints and David Diehl of the Giants where drafted below the 3rd round (4th round and 5th round respectively) and Diehl was originally drafted to play G (he did not switch to LT until his third or fourth season).

    So while there maybe more UDFA lineman than 1st round picks playing in the SB, the same cannot be said for the LT position in particular where the draft position of the starters since 2000 has averaged pick #62 (low second round).


    Quote Originally Posted by Call me Ismail View Post
    You need the QB first and let him develop and build the castle around him. If anything, you want him in sooner because of the learning curve it takes to be a QB
    Current practice would seem to indicate otherwise. The Ravens, Falcons and Jets have all had good success with rookie signal callers precisely because they put an emphasis on having built the offensive line and putting in place a strong running game. They were thus allowed to put together winning seasons while garnering experience for young QBs. Frankly, I think this will pay huge dividends for all three of these teams long term.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    Subscribe to our BGO Mailing List

    hailus redskinus
    COYS

  14. #14
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-26-09
    Posts
    8
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I'm proposing we take a QB only if the organization sees value in one of the QB's at that pick. And I feel the same way about the OT's. Hopefully we won't have to pick one that isn't worthy simply because we have the 4th selection in this draft.

    My real point is, there are many more OLineman becoming franchise players when chosen in the later rounds than there are QB's. For every Brees or Brady, there are 10 QB's chosen in the top 15 picks who go on to be top flight field generals. Further, because of that, it is important to choose a QB at this high position if Shanahan wants to develop one, because we (and I'm being optimistic here) may not have so high a pick again for many years unless we trade away our drafts. The salary and cap implications are also favorable in this uncapped year, particularly if we keep Jason as I hope.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  15. #15
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Posts
    56
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    We've all been over this thousands of times, but the signal to noise ratio on this board is high enough that it's worth another thousand.

    Relevant factors in choosing b/w QB and LT include:

    • How our staff evaluates the top QB and the top LT; obviously, if they are convinced Bradford or Clausen or Okung or whoever is the answer, especially taking into account our system, so be it, I'll be fine w/ any of 'em;
    • A franchise QB is the most important single player in the game--though a franchise LT is only somewhat less so;
    • There's a higher bust ratio at the top for QB than LT;
    • Putting the previous two together, that means QB is the higher risk/higher reward route;
    • We have zilch on the line/at LT (assuming Samuels retires), and Campbell is ok/fine at QB, so we have relatively more need (in the short term, at least) at LT;
    • After Clausen and Bradford, the QB class drops precipitously, whereas it seems that there are a handful of LT prospects who seem (at least to us, and to the experts, such as they are) to be of roughly the same quality, thus suggesting that we could trade down in the 1st, or possibly wait till the 2d, and still end up with an LT w/o terribly much less value than whomever we'd choose at #4.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  16. #16

    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,516
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Florida Atlantic

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by B&G View Post
    I don't believe there is a LT in the draft worthy of the 4th pick. I'm not sure any of the QB's are supportable either.
    This is why I'm a huge fan of trading down. The 4th overall pick is going to get upwards of $30 million guaranteed - I believe the only players worth that kind of money in this draft are Berry and Suh, both of which will be gone by pick 4. If we can trade down to the mid-1st round, and pick up an additional 2nd rounder, we can get a solid OT, as well as one of the better OC prospects in a long time, Maurkice Pouncey.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    big ben? youre going to talk about the same big ben who is always picking himself up off the dirt when he drops back to pass?

    and tom brady? What knee was hit when he got hurt?
    To be fair, Rothliesberger holds the ball too long, which is why he's constantly sacked (or at least part of it). And Brady's knee was done in by blitzing safety Bernard Pollard who came up the middle.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  17. #17
    kirbster
    Honored Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    This is why I'm a huge fan of trading down. The 4th overall pick is going to get upwards of $30 million guaranteed - I believe the only players worth that kind of money in this draft are Berry and Suh, both of which will be gone by pick 4. If we can trade down to the mid-1st round, and pick up an additional 2nd rounder, we can get a solid OT, as well as one of the better OC prospects in a long time, Maurkice Pouncey.
    Well, it takes two to tango, and it's fine and dandy to say we should trade down, but I seriously doubt there'll be many (any?) takers. In light of the impending capless year and the strong chance of a lockout in 2011, it's commonly believed that owners will be less willing to shell out the huge contracts the top 5-10 picks will command. More so than probably any year in NFL history, trading down will be damn near impossible. So we damn well better be ready to draft at #4. I'm of very mixed mind as to what we should take with the pick. One time I'm thinking QB (probably Bradford) and then the next I'm thinking LT. I dunno!
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  18. #18

    Join Date
    02-22-10
    Posts
    90
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    exactly, trading down takes two teams. Unless Vinny goes back to San Fran and gets them to offer both their 1st's and something else for the 4th overall. Its unlikely.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  19. #19

    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,516
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Florida Atlantic

    Default

    I dunno how unlikely it is, I tend to think the opposite. Some team is going to fall in love with Claussen or Bradford after the combine (possibly the Skins), and will be willing to move up to get them. It doesn't have to be all draft picks from this year, could be a first & second this year + a first next year, or something like that.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  20. #20

    Join Date
    06-30-09
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    4,071
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    25

    Default

    But with reports of all 4 of the top teams shopping their picks to trade down, teams that want to move up have choices and can play the 4 off against each other.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    Subscribe to our BGO Mailing List

    hailus redskinus
    COYS

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Vinny Cerrato Q&A on drafting of Jeremy Jarmon
    By Boone in forum Sons of Washington
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-16-09, 07:07 PM

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •