A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
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  1. #21

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    This is what gets me...my argument is not what he's done with what he's had, but what he's NOT done with what he had.

    The season after we won the Division title, in a weak division I might add, we found ourselves in a win or go home situation to end the season against the Gnats. We had a pretty good chance to win the division as defending champs at 6-3-1 and lost 4 of 6 down the stretch.
    Ah...the 'weak division'.... I never hear Gibbs, or any other successful coach, evaluated based on how 'strong' the division was - but when Gruden has success, it's because the competition sucked... that's super fair.

    That is regression in year one after it looked like a corner had been turned.

    The following season...ok, injuries, but the amount of motivation from that team was abysmal, in light of the adversity in front of them. They completely folded and ended the season with the most embarrassing loss to a terrible Giants team. It reminded me of the Shanahan debacle down the stretch.
    Yes - that's a fair criticism

    Then there is last year...even more injuries, but the team was playing with more heart. Was that Gruden? Per reports from last year, players were motivated by a veteran presence who pushed them. A lot of credit was given to AP for their spirited play, even though the talent was simply lacking at the most key position to overcome the QB situation. Letting Nate Sudfeld slip away was a huge mistake by Gruden...HUGE!
    Nate Sudfeld - what has that guy done? I mean - seriously - that's the criticism??? Guy is the most over-hyped player since Sultan McCullough...

    So you acknowledge that the team didn't give up last season, despite the worst spate of injuries in modern memory - but it was IN SPITE of Gruden, not because of him, that they were able to continue to compete? I mean - is that really your argument brother?

    Look John, I think you agree with Ax, a few others, and I that Gruden is not ever going to be a Super Bowl winning head coach, especially here in DC with the ownership, and leadership in the front office. However, I applaud your dedication to a midland head coach who got this job because he was able to squeeze blood from Dalton.
    No - I don't agree with that - not because I am certain he *will be* that guy, but because no coach is that guy until he is that guy. My argument is pretty consistently stated. Gruden has had numerous challenges to navigate. You can minimize those if it supports your position, but he's navigated them, and he's survived. The roster is rising, talent has been added, and Gruden has survived some incredibly tough years. Why not give him a couple more to see who he really is?

    People write people off every day. Pretty sure you've been written off a few times in your life as have all of us. Were those folks right? Or perhaps was there more to you than your critics believed there was?
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  2. #22

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    So how did the few more years philosophy work out with Marvin Lewis in Jay's spawning ground?

    IMO we ended up with what we have: a mid-tier coach. Couple that to the anchor known as the F O and you have what we have lived with for decades now.
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Ah...the 'weak division'.... I never hear Gibbs, or any other successful coach, evaluated based on how 'strong' the division was - but when Gruden has success, it's because the competition sucked... that's super fair.
    Never had to argue for Gibbs to see what the division was like...didn't have interwebz discourse, but let's just go back to Shamahan...he won in a weak division with a gimmick QB. Gruden isn't the only one. But we won that division title when there was not a single team but us with a winning record. You can discount the notion of weak division, but we were 9-7 in a division with 3 losing records. That's pretty obvious.

    The accomplishment comes in that we were such a bad team the year before. We turned it around and lucked into a division title...then steady regression since.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Nate Sudfeld - what has that guy done? I mean - seriously - that's the criticism??? Guy is the most over-hyped player since Sultan McCullough...
    He has solidified himself as a quality backup QB in Philly. He was a solid #3 here, but we "stashed " him on the PS in favor of keepin g 2 QB's on the roster and he got snatched away. You can minimize his talent to fit your argument, you're right...he hasn't won a Super Bowl or anything, but he was a better option than the 18 QB's we brought in off the street to backup McCoy, and has the confidence of a multiple Super Bowl winning coach to be the next to step in when Carson Wentz is injured again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    So you acknowledge that the team didn't give up last season, despite the worst spate of injuries in modern memory - but it was IN SPITE of Gruden, not because of him, that they were able to continue to compete? I mean - is that really your argument brother?
    YES, IN SPITE OF HIM. I thought the rag tag crew of OL, horrible QB's trying to step up, and young players we were forced to bring in, were motivated last year...where was that motivation the year before if Gruden was the source as you want to believe?

    The players came out and spoke often about the leadership of Adrian Pederson...that if that guy can go out and play as hard as he did toward the end of the season with a small chance at the playoffs, they can too. John, this isn't just some made up theory...it was the PLAYERS ON THAT TEAM who said their motivation was a veteran RB, not their coach.

    So Yes...it is my argument that they played hard in spite of Gruden because 2 seasons before with the same scenario and a chance at the playoffs late in the season...for the 2nd year in a row, they failed with no leadership stepping up. And with Gruden and Cousins to a degree the so-called leaders, yes...I say that in spite of Gruden, the team stepped up because they said AP motivated them...they didn't say coach motivated them.

    Last season ended the same way, but the play from many of the younger players was far different than the 2 previous seasons where there was a better chance at the playoffs, and the play of the players was lackluster to say the least. What was the difference? As many of those players admitted, Adrian Pederson.



    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    No - I don't agree with that - not because I am certain he *will be* that guy, but because no coach is that guy until he is that guy. My argument is pretty consistently stated. Gruden has had numerous challenges to navigate. You can minimize those if it supports your position, but he's navigated them, and he's survived. The roster is rising, talent has been added, and Gruden has survived some incredibly tough years. Why not give him a couple more to see who he really is?
    We've seen enough...you can hope all you want, and many will belittle me for being a "debbie downer", but I am not going to piss on your leg and tell you it's raining. There isn't anything in this year's team that suggests this coach will get any more than 7 or 8 wins. I think you over valuing the talent on this team.

    And I don't have to minimize those injuries or "disadvantages." They are simply a symptom of the poor leadership. Yes, there were some freak injuries last year...but how many injured players were brought in with injury concerns to begin with? This team is taking flier after flier on injured players or they give often injured players in house too many chances, and few if any are actually panning out in the long term. That's on coach, buddy. Like coach Gibbs said, "If you're injured, you aren't contributing." But we keep bringing in injured players. I mean we just did it again...we brought in Bryce Love...who very well could be the steal of the century, but he isn't contributing now...he's not on the field. Next year if he ends up being our new starter, gets injured...whose fault is that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    People write people off every day. Pretty sure you've been written off a few times in your life as have all of us. Were those folks right? Or perhaps was there more to you than your critics believed there was?
    John, write off? yes, I've been written off. My first chance at being placed in an executive position in the biggest department of a mutli-million dollar company, with as many as 60 people under my leadership, I pumped out more product than that company had ever produced. But I was a hard ass, no nonsense leader...no room for excuses, no time for childishness on site.

    I am no longer in that position because I was written off...they decided that my leadership style wasn't effective in the 21st century, even with record numbers. I think they are probably correct...too many snowflakes out there who can't handle being told the truth when they mess up. They need to be pampered, and I wouldn't pamper them.

    Gruden isn't even producing...write him off!
    Last edited by Elephant; 08-13-19 at 01:36 AM.
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  4. #24

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    I appreciate your take El - I really do. I just have a few issues with your general mindset. It's patently unfair to say 'it's all about the record' and then discount when a coach leads a team to the playoffs or a division win. Every year is different. But the bottom line is, did the coach keep the team focused and do a good enough job to prevail over other teams. In that regard, Gruden has been right up there with Gibbs II, Shanahan, etc... I don't think we need to overthink it. My point in posting those win-loss percentages was that I know most when you all actually look at the #'s most of you are surprised they are so close. They are close because Gruden is a pretty good coach, and not the cellar dweller he is made out to be. The players respect him, they've *generally* played hard for him, even when faced with large numbers of injuries and an uphill battle in several years where we are playing with backups to backups (and in some cases guys off the street). I have yet to see one of his rosters give up on him and stop playing hard as I have sometimes seen with other bad teams.

    As for Sudfeld - I really don't get the man crush. He hasn't done anything, and the idea that had we only kept him, we'd have been in good shape when QBs 1 and 2 went down - I'm just not buying it. We haven't just had a few 'freak injuries' the past 2 seasons brother - we had historic injury levels - more than 20 players on IR over 2 straight seasons is unheard of. No head coach in the league could've overcome that. You will never convince me otherwise. And putting 'responsibility' for those epic injury levels on the head coach, that's just a bizarre argument. Damn near every NFL player who has been in the league more than 3 years is going to come to a team with an 'injury history'. That's a red herring. And implying if only we had a 'good coach' we wouldn't have suffered those epic injuries, I think that's a pretty sketchy idea.

    I don't expect this team to win the division or go to the playoffs this season. It's not realistic or fair to set the bar there in a year when our backup QB is recovering from a broken leg and surgical complications, and our other two options are new to this team. That was the whole point of my pushback here. Not arguing Gruden is Gibbs or anything close to that. But if you have ridden him this far, seems only logical to give him a couple more seasons to see if he can turn the corner with a normal # of injuries and a more talented team.

    I know you disagree with my more optimistic view of Gruden -and that's fine. I like the guy. He's well-liked and respected by his players and coaches, he wants to be here, he has shown he can weather the daily shit-storms that come with the head coaching gig in DC, and we have been a respectable franchise on the field during his tenure.

    Is it good enough? Hell no, it's not good enough. And he'd be the first to acknowledge it. But I think he's done enough to give him a couple more seasons to prove one way or another what he can do. It makes no sense to have him with an axe hanging over his head this season.
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  5. #25

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    The problem is, the same logic was used to keep Norval around for 7 years. It's no wonder Gruden has been compared to him.
    Currently, he seems to be a lot like Norval. A career coordinator.

    The only coach I can think of that took this long to turn the corner on winning, was Tom Landry. Maybe Jay can do it. I hope he can.

    Also, I totally disagree about where the bar should be set. Everybody from the owner down to the waterboy should be expected to perform at a championship level, every season. Can't fire owners. So, everyone else should have their job on the line. Doesn't matter how "realistic" anyone thinks it is.

    Perfection is unattainable. But striving for it should always be required.
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Gruden is IMO in the last year of his tenure in DC.

    There are several factors that weigh into that calculation that include the record of the Redskins not showing up to play competitive football in key games that determined playoff participation and performances in the many prime time games where Washington not only lost but really was embarrassed by opponents.

    The injury problems have multiple causes. Gruden doesn't run the toughest practices and training camp and it seems in the majority of his seasons here the Redskins begin the season not ready to play and we end up losing guys early before we start the meat of the season.

    Meanwhile , other teams like the Eagles and Cowboys in our own division overcome tepid starts to gain momentum and finish the season getting better rather than lying listless talking about 'next year' as the Redskins often do.

    Brian Mitchell talks about getting ready for contact and the grind of the 16 game schedule. It appears the Redskins are light on that kind of intense preparation. Mitchell laughed when he saw that Gruden was cutting one practice short 'because the guys have done enough'. Mitchell was basically saying that after 5 years, Gruden still doesn't get it. Belichick and Andy Reid don't run those kinds of camps and preseason schedules. But Gruden refuses to look around and see what is working in the NFL when it isn't working here in Washington.

    The other factor in the injuries is in what types of players the Redskins target to bring on the roster.

    Paul Richardson was hurt 3 of his first 4 seasons in the NFL and while he had a solid 2017 season in Seattle even the Seahawks decided to let him go despite being a former #2 pick.

    For a team like the Redskins that had a long list of injured players returning in 2018, the decision to sink most of our free agent dollars in a smallish receiver with that kind of injury history and depend upon him to improve the offense significantly was questionable at best. He got hurt here almost immediately and was on IR before we even started the first turn in the 2018 season.

    That by all accounts was a player Gruden had identified in free agency and was in full throat to bring on the roster.

    You can point to Gruden favorites like Rob Kelley and Byron Marshall at RB as examples of guys that the team continued to ride long after they have shown they just can't stand up to a 16 game NFL season physically.

    Beyond the injury factor, the Redskins on offense failed to develop quality depth in Gruden's first couple of years as he took up for players like Ryan Grant and Samaje Perine despite the fact these players during the season failed to make an impact on the field or in Perine's case even make the game-day active list.

    The fact we put Shawn Lauvao at LG for 3-4 years and he kept going on IR year after year while performing at a replacement level at best also shows that Gruden may not have caused issue 'X' or 'Y' but he wasn't that sharp and engaging within the organization to get these problems solved once and for all.

    I think if Haskins develops a close relationship with Kevin O'Connell you may be looking at the next head coach here.

    Already the Redskins have seen younger assistants Sean McVay and Matt LaFleur get NFL coaching jobs after leaving Washington and around the league we seem to be viewed as the club that develops but doesn't retain younger talent.

    I think Snyder sees that even if others don't. It definitely affects the optics and public visibility of the team.

    I don't credit Snyder too often with having a good sense of things, but I think he sees clearly that if the Redskins are going to build back the fan base and game day attendance and create real 'buzz' for this team again, being able to sell a fresh, young energetic head coach and a franchise quarterback starting his career on the field next year is probably the way to go here.
    Last edited by Bulldog; 08-13-19 at 10:09 AM.
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  7. #27

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    Also, I totally disagree about where the bar should be set. Everybody from the owner down to the waterboy should be expected to perform at a championship level, every season. Can't fire owners. So, everyone else should have their job on the line. Doesn't matter how "realistic" anyone thinks it is.

    Perfection is unattainable. But striving for it should always be required.
    There’s a distinct difference in what the team and coach are striving for at all times, and saying ‘get to the playoffs’ or it’s your head in a particular season.

    I agree that should always be the goal, but mandating it ‘or else’ this season doesn’t make a lot of sense.


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  8. #28

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Don’t get me wrong guys. I think moving on from Gruden is justifiable. I just don’t understand the approach of continuing on with him while drafting a future franchise QB in the same make or break year with the head coach. If we were going to fire him, should’ve been after last season. Now telling Gruden ‘win or you’re gone’ in a year where he has no proven QB to work with, just seems like an odd way to approach it.


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  9. #29

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    I know Gibbs is a totally unfair comparison. But whether he believed it or not, he publicly stated, several times during every season, that HIS job was on the line. It never affected him. This year is the first time I've heard Gruden say it like he believed it.

    In this era, only an idiot wouldn't already know his ass was on the line after 5yrs, and a losing record.
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  10. #30

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Don’t get me wrong guys. I think moving on from Gruden is justifiable. I just don’t understand the approach of continuing on with him while drafting a future franchise QB in the same make or break year with the head coach. If we were going to fire him, should’ve been after last season. Now telling Gruden ‘win or you’re gone’ in a year where he has no proven QB to work with, just seems like an odd way to approach it.


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    My guess is, Bruce Allen will do everything he can to keep Gruden around. It's his guy. I think we're stuck with him for the next 2 years, at least.
    Unless the 3 win season prediction comes to pass.
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  11. #31
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Boone, the simple truth is right in front of us.

    Alex Smith got hurt in 2018 and still carries a $23M cap hit in 2019.

    The Redskins as we all know don't have the best reputation in the NFL as an organization.

    You put those things together and I think the team realized no top coaching candidate was going to come here and replace Gruden for 2019.

    A number of things had to happen before this team could draw or promote a good candidate:

    1. The team needed to show a core of younger talent, adding players in the 2019 draft on defense and at the skill positions on offense.

    2. Identification and selection of a franchise quarterback to build around.

    3. A good cap situation where older players on the back end of their deals were going to be released or work on non-guaranteed years so the new coach could make personnel changes, etc.


    Again, I think the thought process was that a guy like O'Connell or another younger assistant would ultimately take the job if and when the dust settled with factors #1 through #3 addressed.

    That wasn't all going to happen between January and September 2019 and the team knew it.

    Gruden himself saw it too. But then again is he going to walk away from guaranteed money for the next couple of years on his own?

    No.

    So, we have a compromise for 2019.

    This is a transition year for the Redskins, like it or not.
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  12. #32

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog
    I remember Troy Aikman, another strong armed pocket passer going 0-11 as a rookie and having to run for his life.

    The 49ers were 2-14 in Joe Montana’s first year in SF.
    That was 30+ years ago, before about 3004 changes to the way the league operates, most notably little things I like to call Free Agency and the Salary Cap. That, and there were 12 rounds in the draft. Team were built and rebuilt completely differently back then. Rules were different. Offenses were different. You might as well use baseball as an example for all the relevance your getting from that comparison.

    In terms of the argument that losing Trent will ruin the future for Haskins and the Redskins here recall that New England said goodbye to Nate Solder after he received an outsized contract from NY at age 30 and went on to win the Super Bowl with Trent Brown as the starting LT, a player few were confident in previous to the start of the season.
    And this is a team fielding the best QB in the history of the league, who's been through 20 years and four left tackles. These are VERY bad examples to use. In fact, I would say that if players from days of yore or Tom Brady are what you can come up with explain that losing a pro-bowl LT is no biggie, I'm thinking it might not be all that ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    If we were going to fire him, should’ve been after last season. Now telling Gruden ‘win or you’re gone’ in a year where he has no proven QB to work with, just seems like an odd way to approach it.
    I totally agree with this, actually. My guess is that Gruden is gone after this year, because the team is in a rebuilding phase with a couple Journeyman QBs and a rookie. That's a recipe for a 3-13 season. Knowing Snyder the way we do, I don't see him accepting another bad season for any reason.

    Gruden should have been fired after this past season, but now it's too late. Once again the Redskins hem-and-haw and delay and it's probably going to bite us again.

    Speaking of which, did I read that teams have been asking the Redskins about trade offers for Williams and are being rebuffed? Why am I not surprised.
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  13. #33

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    That was 30+ years ago, before about 3004 changes to the way the league operates, most notably little things I like to call Free Agency and the Salary Cap. That, and there were 12 rounds in the draft. Team were built and rebuilt completely differently back then. Rules were different. Offenses were different. You might as well use baseball as an example for all the relevance your getting from that comparison.



    And this is a team fielding the best QB in the history of the league, who's been through 20 years and four left tackles. These are VERY bad examples to use. In fact, I would say that if players from days of yore or Tom Brady are what you can come up with explain that losing a pro-bowl LT is no biggie, I'm thinking it might not be all that ok.



    I totally agree with this, actually. My guess is that Gruden is gone after this year, because the team is in a rebuilding phase with a couple Journeyman QBs and a rookie. That's a recipe for a 3-13 season. Knowing Snyder the way we do, I don't see him accepting another bad season for any reason.

    Gruden should have been fired after this past season, but now it's too late. Once again the Redskins hem-and-haw and delay and it's probably going to bite us again.

    Speaking of which, did I read that teams have been asking the Redskins about trade offers for Williams and are being rebuffed? Why am I not surprised.
    Hopefully this is just a ploy to get teams to up their bids and/or get a bidding war going. I would hope to God we are not going to have him sit in order to prove some kind of a point. If he won’t report and/or doesn’t want to be here, you’ve got to move him.


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  14. #34

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog View Post
    Boone, the simple truth is right in front of us.

    Alex Smith got hurt in 2018 and still carries a $23M cap hit in 2019.

    The Redskins as we all know don't have the best reputation in the NFL as an organization.

    You put those things together and I think the team realized no top coaching candidate was going to come here and replace Gruden for 2019.

    A number of things had to happen before this team could draw or promote a good candidate:

    1. The team needed to show a core of younger talent, adding players in the 2019 draft on defense and at the skill positions on offense.

    2. Identification and selection of a franchise quarterback to build around.

    3. A good cap situation where older players on the back end of their deals were going to be released or work on non-guaranteed years so the new coach could make personnel changes, etc.


    Again, I think the thought process was that a guy like O'Connell or another younger assistant would ultimately take the job if and when the dust settled with factors #1 through #3 addressed.

    That wasn't all going to happen between January and September 2019 and the team knew it.

    Gruden himself saw it too. But then again is he going to walk away from guaranteed money for the next couple of years on his own?

    No.

    So, we have a compromise for 2019.

    This is a transition year for the Redskins, like it or not.
    If the Redskins don't have the best reputation in the NFL that's going to take years and years of responsible management to overcome. Not one offseason where they draft some players and get a QB with the 15th pick. That doesn't make a team special or responsible. That's what all teams do.

    And when a team first starts rebuilding, that's the time to bring in a new coach. Not a year later. There's no scenario where it makes sense to draft a QB BEFORE bringing the coach in to groom him. Nobody does that. Not on purpose.

    If there's one thing Dan Snyder still does really well, it's get the coach he wants. I don't think this cluster**ck has anything to do with not being able to recruit a decent coach. It's lack of any long term planning. It's being reactive rather than pro-active. It's incompetence, plain and simple. Just like it has been for the past 20 years, right up until today.
    Last edited by Henry; 08-13-19 at 11:19 AM.
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  15. #35

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Hopefully this is just a ploy to get teams to up their bids and/or get a bidding war going.
    That occurred to me too. Let's hope that's what it is.
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    All that said, if Haskins gets into 4 or 5 this season and shows well and the Redskins are in good cap situation for 2020, the head coaching job if Gruden is fired will have qualified applicants, most of whom will be guys we wouldn't have been able to get in 2019.

    As far as the quarterback goes, players develop at their own pace, regardless of the 'era'.

    Patrick Mahomes sat for an entire season before he got the chance to play last year.

    Jared Goff on the other hand got to start games his rookie season and looked dreadful.

    But after the 2018 season, BOTH of these guys are among the top QB's in the NFL.

    Each player gets there in his own way.

    The key here is NOT to devote resources to a young quarterback who doesn't have the 'ups' - a guy like Josh Rosen may very well turn out to be.
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I appreciate your take El - I really do. I just have a few issues with your general mindset. It's patently unfair to say 'it's all about the record' and then discount when a coach leads a team to the playoffs or a division win. Every year is different.
    But John, I rarely say it's all about record...my caveat has always been the ending of those 2 seasons after we won the division. Both of those squads played like they just wanted to go home, and they did.

    How does a team go from winning the division, upgrading more talent after the **** storm Gruden acquired, then in 2 consecutive seasons get worse and worse. And I am not going to give you the benefit of the doubt on the injuries the season before last...with those injuries we still had a chance at playoffs.. And the final game of the season both times we got blown out by a bad Gnats team.

    I will give you a wash on last season's injury bug to a degree...even though we should have kept a 3rd QB who slipped away into a 2nd string position on a good team. But we did keep a lot of the players coming back from in jury instead of simply replacing them.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Know what I think? I think Bruce and Dan are keeping Jay around as a bridge coach to Kevin O'Connell. They had to let one homegrown wunderkind walk in Sean McVay ... if another walks I'm thinking Dan might re-plant all those trees along the river and go into hiding. Which would make many Skins fans happy, of course.

    I don't think Jay is a great coach, but I don't think he's a bad one, either. I think he's a talented guy who has had beyond shitty luck with injuries, no established NFL-quality QB, and a bottom-feeder defense pretty much his entire tenure. I'm kinda interested to see what he might do if, say, Keenum plays solid ball for us, we don't lose all our RB's and OL by midseason, AND the defense actually looks like an NFL defense for an entire year.

    That said, my single biggest complaint about Jay has been those one or two crucial games a year, when the Skins come in looking like they're getting it going, against a team they could and probably should beat, and simply mail it in. I know every team suffers that from time to time, but Jay's Skins seem to do it at the most crucial, soul-wrenching times. If we're still in the hunt in Nov or Dec, and come up against a team we could and probably should beat, and ... you know ... forget to show up ... again ... I won't be surprised.

    And I'm serious about the O'Connell thing.

    Just random thoughts.

    Lots of good points in this thread, btw. You people rock.
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    Eschew obfuscation.

 

 

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