A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
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  1. #1
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    Default Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Make no mistake about it, the Redskins have been getting younger overall the past couple of years. Better draft picks mean more younger players staying on the roster and starting to build their NFL careers.

    Gone are the days the team drafts 8 or 9 players and a year later only one or two of them are still on the roster.

    What the Haskins pick means to me and a number of people I talk to is the Redskins and Snyder are now playing the 'long' game and not looking to make noise right away but rather are finally showing some patience in roster construction and the willingess to look at this as a 2-3 year exercise to get back to real relevance in the NFL.

    Haskins is not going to be a 16 game starter in 2019, I think we all know that. Younger guys like Sweat, Moreland, Holcomb that may very well be future starters and stars for this team are still babies.

    Almost everywhere you look from Guice to Trey Quinn, Terry McLaurin and the raw younger receivers like Sims and Davis on offense this team is about building not contending.

    The starting DL averages 24 years of age which is among the youngest group in the NFL.

    Except for Josh Norman there is really no established member of the backfield group that is over 25-26 yet alone 30. DRC may be a nice backup at 33 but his roster spot is not guaranteed at this point.

    So, the net of this is the Redskins are likely looking at a third place finish in 2019, behind the Eagles and Cowboys and a bit ahead of the Giants who made some head scratching moves in the offseason to trade away younger talent.

    The least I can do as a fan now that I see the plan that has been laid out, perhaps without much media fanfare and mea culpas by the team, is to follow it and take the measure of the players we now have that will bridge this team to much greater success in 2020 or 2021.

    That's one reason I stopped awhile ago in worrying about Trent Williams. At 31, Trent is more past than future and his contract, the richest OL contract when signed in 2016, should be something he lives up to.

    But if he doesn't he needs to be traded because a 31 year old tackle really doesn't fit into the plans of a team going forward with that kind of timeline for success.

    In reality, I think Williams sees that and wants out and is using his current pretext as leverage.

    Will the Redskins need to acquire a LT capable of protecting Haskins into the future if Williams leaves or even if he stays at his age?

    Yes. But that's what the 2020 draft is for. If other younger investments across the roster pay off for the club, we may be in the position to draft a LT with our first pick next year and have that player grow with Haskins the way that Erik Williams grew up with Troy Aikman in Dallas.

    It's all about timing.

    2019 is the time to watch some of the younger players that Kyle Smith and Co. found in the draft that perhaps other teams overlooked.

    It's not the time to worry about Colt McCoy or Trent Williams. These guys along with Josh Norman have short half-lives on this roster because of age and injury history but also in the case of the latter two because of their respective cap hits.

    $29M in cap hit for Williams and Norman? That's way too much for where these guys are in their careers.
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    I'll concur that the "we're one player away from greatness" strategy seems to have shifted over the past 2 years, I'm all on board. We have been treading the "we're close" waters for too long when we should've just gone into the deep end a few years ago and learned to swallow some s*** to get this back on track. I'd rather watch a 3-13 team with a plan moving forward then the .500 or so ball we've seen the past few years knowing that even if we made the paloffs we weren't getting out of the first round. The TW situation is like a chapter 11 bk, shed the debt and re-structure.
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    I'm not sure we can say with any degree of certainty that the days of wasted draft picks are gone. We won't know that for a few years, and given that the front office is what it is ...

    Also, losing Williams for the year is terrible. True, a rebuilding team in the abstract shouldn't need to rely on 31 year old players and all, but when you have a young pocket-passer rookie QB, pass protection is a big deal. We've been spoiled around here at the LT spot. It's been 20 years since we had a bad one. Buckle up.

    Lastly, if this is truly a rebuilding year, and I don't disagree with that idea, why is Gruden still here? He's going to get fired after a 3-6 win season this year anyway. And then we'll have to start over with a new guy with a new vision next year. A true re-boot with a mediocre coach is a bad idea, in my opinion.
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Well, I’ll kind of meld a response to both Bulldog and Henry…

    First of all, I agree with just about every word you said Bulldog. Henry, I don’t disagree regarding Trent Williams. However, Trent has forced the teams hand by refusing to report. I don’t know that the team has any other choice than to trade him away, whether or not we desperately need his services is irrelevant, since he will not play for the Redskins this year apparently under any circumstances.

    And the curious thing in all of this, is what I’ve been pointing out for quite a while.It makes little sense to have a lame duck head coach on a prove it or lose it contract, and then go out and bring in a brand new quarterback who’s bounced around the league as a sometimes starter, and to draft a rookie in the same season. If you truly believe that injuries have made it impossible for Gruden to show progress the last two seasons then prudent thing to do would be to give him a short extension. That would allow him to show what he can do with a talented rookie quarterback selected with an early pick, minus the ridiculous expectation that he used to forge a playoff team while he’s at it. As it stands he’s supposed to somehow make it to the playoffs or beyond while we all know that is nearly an impossible feat given the resources at quarterback.

    You either needed to acknowledge Gruden had little chance to succeed the last two seasons, draft him some additional talent and extend him for a few more years, or you needed a fire his ass and let your new quarterbacks start over in an offensive system that they at least would have for several years down the road.

    I’m going to be really irritated when, if at the end of the season we have not earned a playoff berth, and Gruden loses his job as a result. While you can certainly argue that Gruden has earned whatever comes his way at seasons end, All the Redskins will have succeeded in accomplishing is wasting an entire year of orienting a rookie quarterback and learning an offense. And the follow up question is, what super competent coach is Washington going to successfully lure to DC to pick up the pieces once you ditch Gruden?


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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    The Redskins put themselves into this position through the Kirk fiasco and the untimely trade for a 35 year old Smith, but the fact remains that at the end of the 2018 season Washington was not in a position to lure a top head coaching candidate either with experience or as an assistant looking to move up.

    With Smith hurt and counting $23M against the cap and no one else on board in December/January, the Redskins were perhaps forced to admit to themselves that Gruden would be a lame duck in 2019 and that once Haskins was drafted and the team continued to build in other areas a better coaching candidate would emerge to take this job in 2020.

    In regards to Trent and Haskins, it was Trent that decided to hold out and demand a trade. I am sure Washington was set to roll with Trent in 2019 and perhaps 2020, drafting a successor with a top pick in 2020 or 2021.

    But Trent didn't allow that to happen, so we are where we are.

    Also, as indicated, it is my belief that Dwayne Haskins will NOT start the season as the starter and that Gruden will get his 8-9 games of McCoy and Keenum to show he can be competitive in 2019.

    Haskins will only play the final 5-6 games of the season and only in my mind if the team is out of playoff contention.

    It's not perfect. Going through 2019 with Donald Penn, Geron Christian as essentially a rookie after missing most of 2018, and Corey Robinson as a street free agent is tough.

    But if we get consistent play out of our veterans at center, right guard and right tackle and Wes Martin can come on at left guard the offense can shade protection toward LT and make do.

    I don't know what compensation we could get for Trent Williams at this point. But if a team like New England, which is reported to be interested with both LTs from 2018 now departed in free agency, is interested in acquiring a LT that can protect Brady for the next 2 years that should be attractive to Belichick.

    Isiah Wynn was drafted by New England with their #1 pick last year and missed the season due to a torn ACL.

    He is making it back but is not ready to go yet and may not be ready to start until 2020.

    A trade of Trent Williams for Wynn and a draft pick from NE might be something the teams can consider.

    Let's face it. Belichick more than anything else doesn't want to give away any current starters on his team that he needs to contend in 2019 but with Brady 42 years old, the 31 year old Williams for a 23 year old younger player with potential may be the answer.

    If we can get New England to throw in a #3 or #4 pick to go along with Wynn that might be a deal.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    I'm still of the mindset that Keenum should start, regardless if Colt is healthy or not. Our o-line "may" shake out to be serviceable enough to give a veteran enough time to manage a run game and solid defense. Which is exactly how Jay should play this season.

    I want Haskins mentally & physically ready for 2020, along with the top LT in the draft and one of the top TE's as an outlet. If by some miracle Christian figures it out and solidifies that spot fantastic, we go TE or WR with our 2020 1st rounder.

    Bruce needs stripped of GM duties and Jay has this season to get us a wildcard at minimum. If not, fire him and let Kyle Smiff pick the new HC. I'm not against promoting Callahan, or even Manusky if he provides a top 5 defense, which imho he has. Big yet subtle changes at the same time.
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Something else to consider. When Allen says "I am only interested in winning" - this has implications. More than likely, the idea applies to others as well. When it comes time for new contracts after the money will immediately come "do I really want to stay here? We've had a losing record every season." There's no culture of winning in DC. Jay Gruden certainly doesn't seem to excude nor demand that kind of spirit. It's hard to put a finger on it, but he just doesn't seem to be the sort of coach who is singleminded about winning and communicates that urgency to his team. It often seems he reacts rather than initiates.
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    It doesn't really matter WHY Trent Williams has decided no amount of money could possibly convince him to play another down for the Redskins (well, it does, but not for the purpose of this discussion). What matters is that he's done here, and there's no way to look at that and think "well that doesn't worry me at all. It's perfectly fine."

    No, it's not. LT is going to be a sieve this year. If you are trying to develop a rookie QB, that's terrible. ESPECIALLY when we were expecting the position to be set for two more years. That throws a huge wrench in our short and long term plans.

    I suppose the best way to look at it is to devise our own trade scenarios in our heads and convince ourselves that that might happen and everything will be fine. Maybe that will happen. But until it does, an unexpected hole at LT, which was probably our biggest strength on offense, period, is a bad bad thing.

    And, next year won't be any better a time to attract a coach than this year. Next year, the new coach won't get to pick his QB, unless we want to be next year's Cardinals. I'm almost laughing thinking about that, because it totally could happen. No, there is no better time to get rid of a dead weight coach than the present. Just like drafting and acquiring Free Agents, either a team can attract talent at the coaching position or it can't. If the Redskins are capable of getting a good coach, they can do it now or later. And if we are rebuilding, now would have been better.
    Last edited by Henry; 08-09-19 at 06:04 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post

    Lastly, if this is truly a rebuilding year, and I don't disagree with that idea, why is Gruden still here? He's going to get fired after a 3-6 win season this year anyway. And then we'll have to start over with a new guy with a new vision next year. A true re-boot with a mediocre coach is a bad idea, in my opinion.

    This is exactly what I was thinking. If they are truly looking long term, they would have fired Gruden. That FO is selling tix with the idea they think they're close.

    In reality, this is a 7-9 team...9-7 at best with such a mediocre coach and the current level of talent on this roster.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    It doesn't really matter WHY Trent Williams has decided no amount of money could possibly convince him to play another down for the Redskins (well, it does, but not for the purpose of this discussion). What matters is that he's done here, and there's no way to look at that and think "well that doesn't worry me at all. It's perfectly fine."

    No, it's not. LT is going to be a sieve this year. If you are trying to develop a rookie QB, that's terrible. ESPECIALLY when we were expecting the position to be set for two more years. That throws a huge wrench in our short and long term plans.

    I suppose the best way to look at it is to devise our own trade scenarios in our heads and convince ourselves that that might happen and everything will be fine. Maybe that will happen. But until it does, an unexpected hole at LT, which was probably our biggest strength on offense, period, is a bad bad thing.

    And, next year won't be any better a time to attract a coach than this year. Next year, the new coach won't get to pick his QB, unless we want to be next year's Cardinals. I'm almost laughing thinking about that, because it totally could happen. No, there is no better time to get rid of a dead weight coach than the present. Just like drafting and acquiring Free Agents, either a team can attract talent at the coaching position or it can't. If the Redskins are capable of getting a good coach, they can do it now or later. And if we are rebuilding, now would have been better.
    If Donald Penn stays healthy (and I acknowledge that may be a big 'if'), we WILL be fine. He's a good player. I'm more concerned about who is backing him up. I think Geron looks pretty raw. I won't utter the other name.

    I agree on the coaching thing, although having Haskins if he continues to look super promising or gets significant game time and shines, could help attract a quality HC. But we won't be a destination of choice. 'Now' is not an option, obviously. My logic is that if Gruden had done enough to keep him around for this year, he's done enough to give him a few more in order to prevent another round of turmoil and transition just when you are trying to settle and orient a rookie franchise QB. They should extend Gruden at least a year, maybe two - and do it now.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Penn is OK but not great, my worry is we might be david carring a young prospect
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I agree on the coaching thing, although having Haskins if he continues to look super promising or gets significant game time and shines, could help attract a quality HC. But we won't be a destination of choice. 'Now' is not an option, obviously. My logic is that if Gruden had done enough to keep him around for this year, he's done enough to give him a few more in order to prevent another round of turmoil and transition just when you are trying to settle and orient a rookie franchise QB. They should extend Gruden at least a year, maybe two - and do it now.
    This is the bit I don't understand either...

    It's been widely reported in the media that the Skins are expected to finish with a record around 3-13, a point that the players have derided. Still, the perception of the Skins around the league is that we're a bottom feeder team. The team itself MUST know that this is a gap year at best. If this had been Alex Smith's second year under center then I could see the pressure on Gruden, but it's not. We've got two new QB's who are unfamiliar with the system. We have a host of unproven WR's. We have a bunch of players considered excellent at their position.... all coming back from injury. We have an aging RB and an unproven RB. WE have an O-line held together with duct-tape and good wishes.

    Are we a playoff team on paper?

    A LOT of things have to break right in order for us to sneak into the post season, and honestly I can't see them all happening. So what's Dan and Bruce thinking?

    And if realistically they are expecting a rebuilding season, then why is Gruden on the hot seat?

    I'm with Boone on this... If this was a play off team and it underperforms early season then by all means fire him. But it's not. But what if it's a team that competes, shows fire and is getting forward progress from it's youth movement - but still ends up winless over the first 5 games. Then what?

    I was listening to a podcast a few weeks back (it was either the John Keim one, or I think he may have been on the NBC one with JP Finlay) and they were talking about the coaching job in Washington being more than just about the X's and O's, and how there's a whole political aspect to it too that Gruden handles really well. (I think they used the example of Rueben Fosters signing as being one of those moments where Gruden was 'informed' of that signing and then had to run with it). It seems to be a reputation that the Skins have, and makes you wonder how the job is viewed by the general coaching community.
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  13. #13

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    The fact of the matter is, Gruden has done nothing to warrant an extension, in the eyes of many.
    As a 5 year veteran head coach, he inspires no more confidence than any rookie head coach in the league.

    Playoffs, or unemployment. Injuries be damned.
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Haskins by my reckoning of Gruden’s mindset is NOT going to be a Day 1 starter. Chances are he sits and watches fro most of the season.

    And if he does get into 4 or 5 games at the end of the season I don’t think his career is jeopardized by Williams not being here.

    I remember Troy Aikman, another strong armed pocket passer going 0-11 as a rookie and having to run for his life.

    The 49ers were 2-14 in Joe Montana’s first year in SF.

    Given that Williams is 31 and injury prone you can’t count on him being here when Haskins becomes the full time starter down the road.

    In terms of the argument that losing Trent will ruin the future for Haskins and the Redskins here recall that New England said goodbye to Nate Solder after he received an outsized contract from NY at age 30 and went on to win the Super Bowl with Trent Brown as the starting LT, a player few were confident in previous to the start of the season.

    Things here don’t change my plan if I am the front office for 2020.

    Trent and Josh Norman at 31 and holding down $29M in cap money need challengers and I would be looking to take an OT near the top of the draft in any event.
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    The fact of the matter is, Gruden has done nothing to warrant an extension, in the eyes of many.
    As a 5 year veteran head coach, he inspires no more confidence than any rookie head coach in the league.

    Playoffs, or unemployment. Injuries be damned.
    I have already acknowledged that by NFL norms, Gruden's been given a fair chance and is dead man walking. But I can make a case that he's a lot more capable coach than you are willing to give him credit for. My talking points would be such:

    1) He inherited a mess - including an anointed high draft pick QB who was a drama queen, incapable of sustained NFL success, and an owner and GM who were determined to 'save him'. He quickly determined this was a mistake, and he moved on. Incredibly ballsy for a first time HC in his first year.

    2) We did win an NFC East championship in 2015, equaling Mike Shanahan's achievements in DC.

    3) He has managed to keep the drama and locker room undiscipline of the Shanahan era at bay. Very little drama during his tenure. He's also been good enough and well thought of enough not to get fired after 2-3 seasons.

    4) He's come close to achieving .500 records the past 2 years when total implosion was within the realm of possibility due to levels of critical injuries any critic HAS to acknowledge.

    Now - as you are reading this you are already typing....it's all about wins and losses - he hasn't gotten it done.

    And you are, of course, 100% right.

    But a little context. Setting aside guys like Zorn and Spurrier (because, well, they're Zorn and Spurrier), Gruden's record (he's won 44.3% of his games as Skins HC) has been better than Mike Shanahan (who won just 37.5% of his games), only marginally worse than HOFer Joe Gibbs in his 2nd stint (who won 44.3% of his games the 2nd go round) and Norv Turner, who ironically boasts the best average having won 47.2% of games during his tenure if we ignore his final partial season.

    There's a case to be made - whether it irritates you in the extreme or not, whether you want to bitch about his game management and playcalling or not, that Gruden is as consistent and capable as any coach we've had since the Norv Turner era.

    Could he be fired if he doesn't get this 2019 squad to the playoffs? Sure. Would it be the greatest injustice ever perpetrated on an NFL head coach ever? No. But if you set aside frustration and look at what he's had to contend with, he's done as good a job as any modern Redskins coach. He really has. Does that mean that it is only a matter of time before he takes the Redskins to the next level - to playoff wins, an NFC Championship, and wins a Super Bowl? Of course not. But it's also not impossible. Some of you have just made up your mind and choose to believe so.

    And for me, it would seem like an odd time to fire him, with a rebuilt team to coach, a talented rookie QB to mentor, and things seemingly looking up.

    But I know, that's just me.
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I have already acknowledged that by NFL norms, Gruden's been given a fair chance and is dead man walking. But I can make a case that he's a lot more capable coach than you are willing to give him credit for. My talking points would be such:

    1) He inherited a mess - including an anointed high draft pick QB who was a drama queen, incapable of sustained NFL success, and an owner and GM who were determined to 'save him'. He quickly determined this was a mistake, and he moved on. Incredibly ballsy for a first time HC in his first year.
    Practically every head coach inherits a mess. Some worse than others. And some, not the mess they're made out to be. Gruden knew after about 5 minutes that he didn't like Griffin. Professionally, or personally. And he was right to. But he did not move on from him in his first year. You call him ballsy. I say he had none. It wasn't until the drunk came in that Griffin was shelved. And I don't think we know which one was most responsible. So, he gets a little credit. But not much.
    2) We did win an NFC East championship in 2015, equaling Mike Shanahan's achievements in DC.
    True. But everything before, and after, suggests it was more of blind hog finding an acorn. But yeah, there's that.

    3) He has managed to keep the drama and locker room undiscipline of the Shanahan era at bay. Very little drama during his tenure. He's also been good enough and well thought of enough not to get fired after 2-3 seasons.
    Of course, it can also be argued that the front office is responsible for this. They hired Gruden. They've supplied the locker room with good character people. It's funny how everything good about the team somehow gets attributed to Gruden. He's been a high maintenance coach that's needed burping and diaper changes along the way.
    4) He's come close to achieving .500 records the past 2 years when total implosion was within the realm of possibility due to levels of critical injuries any critic HAS to acknowledge.
    Close? See: Horseshoes & Hand Grenades
    And I seem to remember the Steelers making the Super Bowl one year as the most injured team in the NFL.
    Part of the game.
    Now - as you are reading this you are already typing....it's all about wins and losses - he hasn't gotten it done.

    And you are, of course, 100% right.
    Yeah, there was this one time I thought I was wrong. But I was mistaken.
    But a little context. Setting aside guys like Zorn and Spurrier (because, well, they're Zorn and Spurrier), Gruden's record (he's won 44.3% of his games as Skins HC) has been better than Mike Shanahan (who won just 37.5% of his games), only marginally worse than HOFer Joe Gibbs in his 2nd stint (who won 44.3% of his games the 2nd go round) and Norv Turner, who ironically boasts the best average having won 47.2% of games during his tenure if we ignore his final partial season.
    The past is the past.
    And this same team, with Joe Gibbs at the helm, would be picked to only win 3 games, by nobody.

    There's a case to be made - whether it irritates you in the extreme or not, whether you want to bitch about his game management and playcalling or not, that Gruden is as consistent and capable as any coach we've had since the Norv Turner era.
    Kinda like saying the girl with 2 teeth has a prettier smile than the girl with only 1.
    Could he be fired if he doesn't get this 2019 squad to the playoffs? Sure. Would it be the greatest injustice ever perpetrated on an NFL head coach ever? No. But if you set aside frustration and look at what he's had to contend with, he's done as good a job as any modern Redskins coach. He really has. Does that mean that it is only a matter of time before he takes the Redskins to the next level - to playoff wins, an NFC Championship, and wins a Super Bowl? Of course not. But it's also not impossible. Some of you have just made up your mind and choose to believe so.

    And for me, it would seem like an odd time to fire him, with a rebuilt team to coach, a talented rookie QB to mentor, and things seemingly looking up.
    As hard as it might be for you to believe, I want Gruden to be our coach until he dies. But only if he can produce titles.
    He has consistently flashed "Okay-ness". He has never flashed "Greatness".
    But I know, that's just me.
    And we love you, unconditionally. Because you always produce.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

  17. #17

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Nice try Brother Ax. But fact is - every single thing I posted is 100% accurate. Now... one can argue that other facts are more important than the ones I posted, but what I posted are facts

    Taking the stats - winning percentages - you know, the thing that Skins fans beat Gruden over the head with over and over and over again, and dismissing them with 'the past is the past' - I don't consider that a valid response. In fairness, I'm doing exactly what you guys demand be done, comparing Gruden to 'real NFL coaches'.

    His performance (so far) puts him on par with every other 'respectable' Redskins coach of the past 20 years. The truth is, even the 'great' coaches we've had (Shottenheimer, Shanahan, and Saint Joe) have only produced 'okayness' if the bar is NFC Championships and Super Bowls. So he's in good company there.

    That may well not be 'good enough' - but it does pretty much put to bed the ridiculous (imho) narrative that he's 'terrible', or substantially worse than other modern Redskins head coaches.

    So why are we in such a hurry to ditch the guy and hand the reigns over to 'whatshisname' - all based on the assumption we can identify and sign someone better?
    Last edited by Boone; 08-12-19 at 03:26 PM.
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Nice try Brother Ax.
    Taking the stats - winning percentages - you know, the thing that Skins fans beat Gruden over the head with over and over and over again, and dismissing them with 'the past is the past' - I don't consider that a valid response. In fairness, I'm doing exactly what you guys demand be done, comparing Gruden to 'real NFL coaches'.
    This is what gets me...my argument is not what he's done with what he's had, but what he's NOT done with what he had.

    The season after we won the Division title, in a weak division I might add, we found ourselves in a win or go home situation to end the season against the Gnats. We had a pretty good chance to win the division as defending champs at 6-3-1 and lost 4 of 6 down the stretch.

    That is regression in year one after it looked like a corner had been turned.

    The following season...ok, injuries, but the amount of motivation from that team was abysmal, in light of the adversity in front of them. They completely folded and ended the season with the most embarrassing loss to a terrible Giants team. It reminded me of the Shanahan debacle down the stretch.

    Then there is last year...even more injuries, but the team was playing with more heart. Was that Gruden? Per reports from last year, players were motivated by a veteran presence who pushed them. A lot of credit was given to AP for their spirited play, even though the talent was simply lacking at the most key position to overcome the QB situation. Letting Nate Sudfeld slip away was a huge mistake by Gruden...HUGE!

    Look John, I think you agree with Ax, a few others, and I that Gruden is not ever going to be a Super Bowl winning head coach, especially here in DC with the ownership, and leadership in the front office. However, I applaud your dedication to a midland head coach who got this job because he was able to squeeze blood from Dalton.
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  19. #19

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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Brother Boone, your recital of the team's move away from Griffin is not, 100% percent accurate. But hardly worth arguing. We have our positions.

    While winning is indeed the bottom line, lots of nuance to the results that make up the percentages. You know that. But if you want me to endorse Gruden because he's better than Spurrier or Zorn, etc, that ain't happening. And I'd take Gibbs II over Gruden every day of the week. If for no other reason than he's earned confidence in his results. And, BTW, I think he walked into a bigger mess than Jay did. Two playoff seasons in 4yrs Trumps Gruden's winning percentage defense. Schotty, in one season did more to transition the team into a serious comer. That Snyder made his biggest mistake, ever, to fire him and hire Doophus, wasn't his fault.

    Gruden's not always terrible. Just far too often. And, that he's not worse than some of the more recent coaches isn't saying much. He's not vastly better either.

    Not in a hurry. I'm all in on this season. Just like the previous 50+. Including the last 5 of his. I hope he shoves a overstuffed humble pie so far up my ass I'll have to reach down my throat to grab a piece. History says I'm safe. But I'm hoping, again, that just like Neo (the movie Neo, not our own superfatstically loveable Neo) that Jay learns how to operate in the matrix, and becomes "The One". I really do.

    But due to his currently existing track record, I'm just not willing to bet on it.
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    Default Re: Drafting of Haskins Changes Redskins Trajectory and View of 2019

    Btw, in all this thread I'll read tomorrow cuz you wanted carpel tunnel....F*** Dallas
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