A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #21

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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    I differ with you guys here. Jay's 'praise' of McCoy after Alex went down sounded very tepid to me. Jay's also never struck me as a HC who has a ton of patience with QBs who make mistakes or play poorly.

    McCoy can run this offense and he doesn't deserve getting lumped in with John Beck and Danny Wuerffel. He just isn't durable and has shown he's only good for a 3 or 4 game stretch. That's fine for a backup. But Gruden isn't blind or stupid. I would be very surprised if he is the annointed starter in 2019. Doesn't mean it won't happen though. If it does, I believe it's simply to ease a rookie into the lineup, or because we opted not to draft a young QB in the upcoming draft.
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  2. #22

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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    Kyler Murray is another in a long line of amazing athletes who translate into solid QB's in the college ranks. I doubt his ability in the NFL.

    Can we just find a QB who happens to be a good enough athlete to extend plays, not a great athlete who depends on his athleticism to be a QB?
    Here's the thing ... he'll likely go top 5 and almost certainly will go top 10. I'm snarky and cynical, but I don't believe the Redskins are going to trade a bunch of draft gold to move up AGAIN. And while Murray may be a better prospect than Griffin (I think he's a more accurate passer), they do share certain aspects of their game (mostly negative ones). Look to run first (or at least, too quick to give up on pass plays and take off), accuracy breaks down on the run, and failure (or inability) to go through all the progressions and fully read a defense. And maybe most importantly, small physical frames that may not hold up well at the NFL level. I'm not worried about Murray's height - but Russell Wilson's ability to run and stay healthy is the NFL exception, not the rule.

    Doesn't mean Murray will be an RG3 type bust. But there's enough risk that I don't believe we should take him, and the imperfections and potential pitfalls are enough to keep us from moving up to get him.
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  3. #23

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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    So we think Smith is done then? Completely?
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  4. #24

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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    So we think Smith is done then? Completely?
    I think it's pretty clear he won't play a down in 2019. So taking us on to the 2020 season, we're talking about a QB who will be 36 1/2 years old. If he had been on the field with a stable roster and in the same offense, playing for the same head coach and coordinators for years, maybe we can still be successful with a QB that age.

    But you add in all of the instability, I'm seriously doubtful he comes back. Starting with what will no doubt be questionable stability of that leg from here on out, he barely knew the offense in 2018 so he'll essentially be starting over. There will be new players, possibly a new head coach, or someone else calling plays. I just don't see how it happens.

    I think there will be some kind of settlement that doesn't cripple the team, but gives Smith a lot of his deal $$ and the team will move on.
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    Starting to think Kyler will go top 5 now.
    I am hesitant to think that we will give up 2020 and 2021 first round picks.

    I still think we will trade up to get a quarterback. Possibly Daniel Jones.
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    Well, it ain't Kyler Murray, and it ain't looking like Daniel Jones.

    Starting to look like Josh Rosen will be our starting quarterback in 2019.
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  7. #27

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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    Eh, unless and until something actually happens, I'll stick with my Colt selection.
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    Eh, unless and until something actually happens, I'll stick with my Colt selection.
    Your only guess is better than either of my first two guesses.
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  9. #29

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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    I keep to my position: some very good QBs next year. I say build the roster this year. If a rental QB is absolutely needed then waste a 3rd or lower.

    Of course, my position has a fatal flaw - it assumes the Skns can draft smartly.

    After all these years, a losing record is the least of my concerns.
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Solitary Man View Post
    Well, it ain't Kyler Murray, and it ain't looking like Daniel Jones.



    Starting to look like Josh Rosen will be our starting quarterback in 2019.
    I think all the top QB's will be gone by the time we pick at 15. We aren't getting Foles. Bridgwater might be a possibility, but truly I wouldn't be too upset if Rosen was the man we trade for.

    Admittedly I haven't paid close attention to him, but I don't think that he's totally to blame for an unimpressive rookie year. I'm usually in the camp that rookies need a year to be groomed before they are thrown in to the deep end of starting. And the Cardinals were a dumpster fire last year and he was never going to save them.
    I think he needs grooming, but if we can get a good WR in free agency (or somehow snag Metcalf!) and if our O-line can stay healthy this year, then I think he could take a step forward in year 2.
    Plus he was a round 1 pick (#10) in a draft where the QB's were pretty well regarded and he's only in year 2 of his rookie deal so he'd be cheap.

    We're not going to be a player for the top QB's in the draft, unless we trade up. I'd rather we kept as many of our picks as possible to be honest and targeted holes to fill. Shore up the team around him.
    If the other QB's are all gone

    My pick....

    We trade for Rosen, but we start McCoy.

    We take the pressure off Rosen, with an eye to grooming him in the system to be the starter long term (or when Colt inevitably gets injured in the firsts few games!)
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  11. #31
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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    I wouldn’t trade anything higher than a 3 for Rosen. If the Cardinals take that, great. If they wanted anything higher than that, I’d rather take my chances with a QB in the draft in the 3rd. I think the Cardinals will have a tough time moving him because of how he played last year and how teams know they want to get rid of him. He may be worth more than a 3rd, but with where the Redskins are right now, I’d not give up anything higher than 3.


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  12. #32
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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
    I wouldn’t trade anything higher than a 3 for Rosen. If the Cardinals take that, great. If they wanted anything higher than that, I’d rather take my chances with a QB in the draft in the 3rd. I think the Cardinals will have a tough time moving him because of how he played last year and how teams know they want to get rid of him. He may be worth more than a 3rd, but with where the Redskins are right now, I’d not give up anything higher than 3.


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    I wouldn't have a problem packaging one of those 6th or 7th round compensatory picks in with a 3rd.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  13. #33

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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
    I wouldn’t trade anything higher than a 3 for Rosen. If the Cardinals take that, great. If they wanted anything higher than that, I’d rather take my chances with a QB in the draft in the 3rd. I think the Cardinals will have a tough time moving him because of how he played last year and how teams know they want to get rid of him. He may be worth more than a 3rd, but with where the Redskins are right now, I’d not give up anything higher than 3.


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    I’m not so sure the Cards regret taking Rosen or think it was a mistake - he was a rookie starter under less than ideal circumstances. It’s not often you find yourself with the #1 pick. It could be decades or more before they are in this position again and I think they simply believe Murray is a unique talent.

    Not like this couldn’t prove to be a disastrous decision for them.

    We of all people should know it could blow up in their faces.

    The idea that Rosen’s worth is just a 3rd round pick - not sure how one could arrive at that conclusion.


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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I’m not so sure the Cards regret taking Rosen or think it was a mistake - he was a rookie starter under less than ideal circumstances. It’s not often you find yourself with the #1 pick. It could be decades or more before they are in this position again and I think they simply believe Murray is a unique talent.

    Not like this couldn’t prove to be a disastrous decision for them.

    We of all people should know it could blow up in their faces.

    The idea that Rosen’s worth is just a 3rd round pick - not sure how one could arrive at that conclusion.


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    That mirrors my thoughts. I think as they're now in the position they are they can't pass on Murray (assuming they're high on him).

    Do you think we could get Rosen for the Kirk comp pick and maybe a lower pick thrown in? Or do you think they'll hold out for our 1st or 2nd rounder considering where he was drafted last year?

    And if we, for hypotheticals sake, gave them our 1st rounder... that is essentially a time travel trade. LOL
    If we'd have said to the Cards last year, "We'll trade you the #15 pick in 2019 for the #10 pick this year (2018) so we can grab Rosen" Would we have been happy with that? (Considering we still would have kept our 2018 first rounder too)
    Because that's essentially what we'd be doing.

    And in that line of thinking, maybe it's also best that he got his rookie campaign out of the way on a different team. We'd get him with a year under his belt, lessons learnt, a chip on his shoulder and still a few years on his rookie deal.

    (This is not me saying we should give a first rounder, just saying what would we feel about it if our FO did just that?)
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  15. #35

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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    I would just argue that while I think we might warrant at least a slight discount seeing as we lose a year of rookie salary benefit, giving up the first wouldn’t be some act of incompetence if they think he’s a legit long-term starter.

    As for what the Cards would take who knows? They don’t HAVE to trade him after all ... so to a certain extent they at least will want to feel like they got value for him. And they also know it’s a risky move and will want to be able to point to what they got in return for Rosen if he proves to be the guy they should’ve kept down the road.


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  16. #36

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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I’m not so sure the Cards regret taking Rosen or think it was a mistake - he was a rookie starter under less than ideal circumstances. It’s not often you find yourself with the #1 pick. It could be decades or more before they are in this position again and I think they simply believe Murray is a unique talent.

    Not like this couldn’t prove to be a disastrous decision for them.

    We of all people should know it could blow up in their faces.

    The idea that Rosen’s worth is just a 3rd round pick - not sure how one could arrive at that conclusion.


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    1. The market decides.
    2. Surroundings or not, it's a "what have you done lately league." His play was not scintillating last season by accounts I have read.
    3. Good or bad depends on one's pov: but he has been described as difficult.

    I'm at the point that I simply don't trust the FO to make good decisions. The QB department has been messed up for years!

    Man this is tiring - the usual off-season drama in Redskin land!
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  17. #37
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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I’m not so sure the Cards regret taking Rosen or think it was a mistake - he was a rookie starter under less than ideal circumstances. It’s not often you find yourself with the #1 pick. It could be decades or more before they are in this position again and I think they simply believe Murray is a unique talent.

    Not like this couldn’t prove to be a disastrous decision for them.

    We of all people should know it could blow up in their faces.

    The idea that Rosen’s worth is just a 3rd round pick - not sure how one could arrive at that conclusion.


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    I don’t know what his value is. Fansince62 said it best, his value is whatever someone will give them for him. I’m just saying that where the Redskins are right now, a 3rd is the highest they should give up. If someone else offers a second or a first and get him, good for them. But I think the Redskins have other needs they could use their picks for.

    I do agree with Elephant that another late round pick may be needed. Or perhaps a cap casualty candidate with a mid round pick.

    But if the Cardinals are willing to move on, then they may take a lower offer. They will take the best offer they get. That may be a 3rd rounder.


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  18. #38

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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
    I don’t know what his value is. Fansince62 said it best, his value is whatever someone will give them for him. I’m just saying that where the Redskins are right now, a 3rd is the highest they should give up. If someone else offers a second or a first and get him, good for them. But I think the Redskins have other needs they could use their picks for.

    I do agree with Elephant that another late round pick may be needed. Or perhaps a cap casualty candidate with a mid round pick.

    But if the Cardinals are willing to move on, then they may take a lower offer. They will take the best offer they get. That may be a 3rd rounder.


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    Only time will tell what he costs. But we have NO other need bigger than at QB brother. It’s not debatable. If they think Rosen’s talent was worthy of a top 10 selection last year, you pay anything up to and including that 15th pick to get him.


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  19. #39

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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Only time will tell what he costs. But we have NO other need bigger than at QB brother. It’s not debatable. If they think Rosen’s talent was worthy of a top 10 selection last year, you pay anything up to and including that 15th pick to get him.


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    Not messin with ya Boone: but you keep asserting QB is our biggest need. I think that's debatable. I'm certain it needs to be qualified by:

    1. Context. If you are talking draft and a high pick I would reword to "our biggest need is a near certain top tier QB". This franchise has so horribly gooned up the QB position every year that the bar must be set higher - especially in a draft that is not highly regarded for QBs. There is that saying about drafting need over best available.

    2. Timing. It's only the highest need if the goal is to march into the playoffs this season. If adding all the tools/depth needed to enhance QB success is the goal, then the priorities change. I fall in the latter group - especially with a better QB crop in 2020.

    3. Talent or Performance? Rosen cannot be viewed as another untested collegiate product. What is it in his abilities and how they are applied on the field that warrant the risk of trading a first rnd pick? i.e., neglecting other positions

    4. Why have so few teams expressed interest, thus far, in Rosen?

    Maybe the guy is the second coming and my limitted understanding of the complex position blinds me from seeing the potential. I just believe the Skins have gone down the road for years (with McLovin exception) of building from the skill positions inward - and it never works. We have the makings of an upper tier d-line. I'ld like to see the team go all out and field a dominating defense - most ready unit on the team to advance to that echelon. Reinvigorate the o-line, find a receiver or two. The aperture widens at that point for the quality of QB needed to move into at least the playoffs.

    In the end, I suppose it doesn't matter. What "could have been" doesn't carry much weight. BruDan are going to apply their decision calculus regardless of the kind of team any of us would like to see. IMO, drafting need in the first round, especially with a subpar QB class, is a mistake.
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  20. #40
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    Default Re: Week one starting Qb for the redskins. Pick it.

    Heath Shuler is floating around out there
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