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Swearinger released

Poppycock!

Would've had 20 on IR for the last 20yrs if that were the case.

That dog won't hunt El.

Although you know I don't excuse all of Grudens shortcomings just because of the injuries.

More believable that Gruden is cursed, and therefore the rash of injuries, including freakish ones, since he arrived.
 
...or that the medical staff is incapable of making sure these guys are in playing shape.
 
Elephant said:
I know there are many like you who forgive based on this fact, but it is a symptom of our FO.

How many guys have we taken a flyer on in the past 10 years who came to us with injury concerns, but was a "steal" in the draft? How many free agents were brought in with injury histories? How many players were brought back after serious injury when it was obvious they'd lost a step, and could not stay on the field?

Yes, fact is that 20 to IR is a staggering statistic but I think it's, at least in part, indicative of a poor FO.
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I don't have any fewer issues with our FO than anyone else. I'm just saying pointing to our record this year or last as some kind of sign of failure is off base. The org is dysfunctional and has failed but I don't see Gruden as responsible. He may not be a top tier coach but we'd have had a winning record and been a playoff team the past 2 years if we'd had even half the injuries.


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ntotoro said:
...or that the medical staff is incapable of making sure these guys are in playing shape.
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Go through the IR lists for the past 2 years and you'll see they are dominated by ligament tears and bone breaks. You can't prevent those by training or conditioning. Its an ultra violent sport - being in shape won't stop ligaments from tearing and bones breaking. I hear that argument a lot but I don't think it holds water medically.


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This is year 5 for this staff and Allen together.

We should have been in the playoffs in 2016 if Gruden and the team bothered to show up for the final game of the season against a Giants team resting a number of key starters.

Part of what we have experienced the last two years is a death spiral where coaches and the FO continue to count on a number of players that get injured on a consistent basis and we refuse to move on from them.

And more troubling is that we continue to identify players like Paul Richardson to bring here that have heavy injury baggage.

At times Gruden seems to be a tourist here rather than a decision maker.

And if he isn't strong enough to elbow a place at the table or he doesn't want to challenge the powers at be because he's just here to get paid, then that's another set of reasons why he's the wrong guy.
 
Bulldog said:
This is year 5 for this staff and Allen together.

We should have been in the playoffs in 2016 if Gruden and the team bothered to show up for the final game of the season against a Giants team resting a number of key starters.

Part of what we have experienced the last two years is a death spiral where coaches and the FO continue to count on a number of players that get injured on a consistent basis and we refuse to move on from them.

And more troubling is that we continue to identify players like Paul Richardson to bring here that have heavy injury baggage.

At times Gruden seems to be a tourist here rather than a decision maker.

And if he isn't strong enough to elbow a place at the table or he doesn't want to challenge the powers at be because he's just here to get paid, then that's another set of reasons why he's the wrong guy.
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I agree with a lot of that Bulldog, with a few caveats. There are guys we've brought in with injury histories, but let's be honest - how many free agents are there out there who don't have an injury history of some kind? I do think the coaches have been guilty of holding onto players who are not consistently available for far too long. You're right, that's not an aggressive approach and it's killed us with guys like Jordan Reed and even now Chris Thompson. We've also held on to guys who we aren't certain can even play their positions, like Samaje Perine as you have pointed out. Those are all valid criticisms. I'm not sure I buy into the view of Gruden as some passive cowering coach who does whatever he is told by the bigwig up above or who the players don't respect. I know that's the perception, I'm just not sure it's accurate.


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If Gruden IS in control and we keep making the same mistakes then who is to blame? 😜

I don't think in reality that Gruden is stupid but rather he is held hostage to Bruce Allen's meddling and Jay is simply not a strong or established enough coach to successfully fight for himself.

Allen learned from the Civil War with Shanahan that the next coach he hired was going to be someone without an established identity in the game, someone who would ‘come to heel' when required.
 
Ax said:
Poppycock!

Would've had 20 on IR for the last 20yrs if that were the case.

That dog won't hunt El.

Although you know I don't excuse all of Grudens shortcomings just because of the injuries.

More believable that Gruden is cursed, and therefore the rash of injuries, including freakish ones, since he arrived.
Click to expand...

I am not going to say all the injuries are a result of the FO, but Paul Richardson os just 1 in a long list of players we acquired with injury concerns...where is he? IR list.

Another part that gets overlooked, is that a couple of those IR players were replaced by better players, which is a stain on the FO as well.
 
Exactly right Elephant.

Jonathan Cooper is a better football player than Shawn Lauvao. We signed him off the street.

Examples like that abound on this roster.

Each year our #2 or #3 picks fail to come in and make a real difference on a team that desperately needs younger talent.

Go back. Our #2 picks either don't produce or don't stay long.

Trent Murphy. Su'a Cravens. They're gone already. Ryan Anderson - rode inactive list his whole rookie season.

That 2016 draft with Scot at the helm selecting Doctson and Cravens was a backbreaker.

We didn't have top picks in 2013 and 2014 due to the Griffin trade so it was important to make 2015 and 2016 count.

We have Scherff but picking #6 overall we should be able to select a pro bowler there in the top 10.

Whether you take a true guard at #6 rather than a tackle is another question.
 
Elephant said:
I am not going to say all the injuries are a result of the FO, but Paul Richardson os just 1 in a long list of players we acquired with injury concerns...where is he? IR list.

Another part that gets overlooked, is that a couple of those IR players were replaced by better players, which is a stain on the FO as well.
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Adrian Peterson has major injury history. He's not on IR.
Anybody thinks they can predict injuries is an idiot.

And, nobody was injury prone until they got injured.
 
Ax said:
Poppycock!

Would've had 20 on IR for the last 20yrs if that were the case.

That dog won't hunt El.

Although you know I don't excuse all of Grudens shortcomings just because of the injuries.

More believable that Gruden is cursed, and therefore the rash of injuries, including freakish ones, since he arrived.
Click to expand...

I briefly caught one of those rolling banners today that flashes who is playing whom at what time - and player injury status. The fecals have been as hard hit, maybe worse, as the Skins. Are they seeing the same circus? Not a probe at you - just entering this sub-thread at an available point. Just a thought that the Skins aren't the only team to suffer injuries in volume.
 
There's a lot wrong with this team. First and foremost, it has no identity. Were Allen a capable assessor of talent, who would he draft? Toward what end? To this day, I don't know what Jay's preferred identity for this team would be. It's clear the Gibbs Skins, for all of Snyder's posturing, has zero influence over who the royal "we" are today.

How do you draft when you don't know who the H you are? Pound it out running team? Passing juggernaut? Shut-down defense? Play action? Seems to me there has been no long-term, consistent identity for this team. No one goes out and entices players to come play "Redskin football" - they can't because it doesn't exist.
 
Ax said:
Adrian Peterson has major injury history. He's not on IR.
Anybody thinks they can predict injuries is an idiot.

And, nobody was injury prone until they got injured.
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Boy we got lucky on that one! Derrius Guice did not have a history of injury...his was a freak accident. Paul Richardson had spent 2 of 3 seasons on the sidelines due to injury before we signed him.

If you cannot agree that we have a long list of injured players, in part, because our front office is more willing to take a flier on players with injury history, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Edit: And to top it all off, we traded the one injured draft pick we molded for Alex Smith. I would rather have given up draft picks, Fuller is the real deal.
 
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SkinnedAussie said:
At least Reed almost made through the season. One week to go, and he would have made it.
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If I remember correctly, I think Jay said that if this game wasn't meaningless in terms of playoff hopes, then Reed would have played.
They probably can't believe he made it this far in a season, and wanted to preserve him for next year, and not get him hurt in a meaningless
game. Also, they probably wanted to take a look at some younger players and their potential, and really wanted to free up a roster spot for that.
The first sentence is a truth. But everything after that is speculation on my part, and there may be more reasons, as well.
 
What really needs to happen is they piss off Reed, bring back Davis and try the youngsters through the year. Even if they draft a TE, anything would be better than the speculation Reed brings to the table.
 
Elephant said:
And to top it all off, we traded the one injured draft pick we molded for Alex Smith. I would rather have given up draft picks, Fuller is the real deal.
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Of course, being on injured reserve now, with a 2nd serious injury, Fuller is, by definition, injury prone. I guess KC should just cut him?

I know many are in full "Kill the Masters" mode. And will be for the foreseeable future.

I just want to beat Philly.
 
fansince62 said:
I briefly caught one of those rolling banners today that flashes who is playing whom at what time - and player injury status. The fecals have been as hard hit, maybe worse, as the Skins. Are they seeing the same circus? Not a probe at you - just entering this sub-thread at an available point. Just a thought that the Skins aren't the only team to suffer injuries in volume.
Click to expand...

No offense Al but if you look at the teams IR lists there just isn't much comparison. The Eagles have 12 on their list while the Skins have 23 today and those 23 include our #1 and #2 QB, #1 and #2 RB, #1 RG, #1 LG, and #1 TE. That doesn't include Richardson or Dunbar in the list either as I didn't know what number to put in front of them but they were both starters.
 
Ax said:
Of course, being on injured reserve now, with a 2nd serious injury, Fuller is, by definition, injury prone. I guess KC should just cut him?

I know many are in full "Kill the Masters" mode. And will be for the foreseeable future.

I just want to beat Philly.
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Meh...I've been in kill the master mode since Gruden was hired. Unfortunately, we cannot fire Dan Snyder.
 
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